Calgary International Airport

[FormerWingTipper]

I watched the CTV News at Noon today and there was talk about a possibility of 'isolated' showers this evening.

Fours hours later, I see and hear a thunderstorm.

Now it's 10:00 PM and there is red popping up on the board as the airlines cannot keep up; apparently we are at the fourth lightning advisory of the night and the number of cancelled flights is increasing given the time of day, flight rotations, crew duty day, etc.. I see that AC's LHR flight in particular has been delayed to tomorrow... never a good sign to see any airlines' widebody flight delayed overnight.

You can never predict Calgary's weather even if you tried...

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ The Mountaineer has been routing less and less through Calgary it seems. I am wondering how much the station is usable now, even if at all in Paliser Square.

Aren't they embroiled in some sort of highly disruptive labour dispute?

[Bigtime]

I assumed it ended up a gong show here yesterday evening. My buddy was stuck in YVR with an AC flight that ended up with pilots that timed out their duty day waiting to get into Calgary.

[CalgaryLankan]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I assumed it ended up a gong show here yesterday evening. My buddy was stuck in YVR with an AC flight that ended up with pilots that timed out their duty day waiting to get into Calgary.

It was indeed a gong show last night. Number of aircrafts landed, but lined up in few locations in the field initially until lightning advisory ends and then gate clearance. I saw BA 103 is also in the line up for gates, however managed to take off around 11.00 PM, but AC850 was stuck here for some reason. As of now, AC is bringing another A330 as AC125 from YYZ to operate as AC850. Yesterdays cancelled AC850 will operate with a 4 digit flight number.

[bigcanuck]

Originally Posted by CalgaryLankan

Yesterdays cancelled AC850 will operate with a 4 digit flight number.

What does that mean? In other words, what's the difference between a 4-digit and a 3-digit number? (and don't say 1 digit...)

[Bigtime]

4 digits numbers usually tend to be for special flights, things like this scenario, a "Dreams Take Flight" itinerary, stuff like that.

[tarapoto]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

4 digits numbers usually tend to be for special flights, things like this scenario, a "Dreams Take Flight" itinerary, stuff like that.

Yeah basically anything that isn't a regular flight. 7000 and up are ferry flights, or like NHL charters and stuff and 2000-2999 are usually extra sections. Vacation flights are anywhere from 1600-1899 i think. Anyway, we couldnt very well have two AC850 flights today that would be confusing

[CalgaryLankan]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

What does that mean? In other words, what's the difference between a 4-digit and a 3-digit number? (and don't say 1 digit...)

The delayed AC850 from yesterday is now operating as AC2150 and regular flight operating as AC850.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA2150

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA850

[Cage]

AC four digit numbers for rescheduled flights are required beacuse there are now twc AC850 flights for May 23. This not just a customer confusion mitigation (it actually increases confusion for pax on the rescheduled flight) but also numerous operational systems from multiple organization require one flight number per day.

On the subject of lightning and Airport Red Alerts, its time to highlight one major problem withe the Red Alert plan at YYC. Namely that the whole airport shutters ground ops when only one part of the airport (eg the south aprons) is affect with a lightning strike risk. THe Thorguard system can predict locations of the potential risk and allow for segregated Apron closure, however CAA does not practice this operation. This costs airlines millions of dollars per annum in lost revenue and higher costs.

Most other airports are not affected by the lightning risk per location as they operate a central apron location with other areas only occupying the runway operations.

The impact of a "one size fits all" Red Alert plan increase with the new International Terminal and New Runway. It time YYC updated its procedures to allow for lightning risk determination based upon location of the individual apron (so Apron 1 would remain open while apron 3-4-5 were closed due to predicted lightning strike risk from Thorguard).

[trofirhen]

I'm from Vancouver, and I applaud Calgary in about every way, especially its role as the business hub of Western Canada, (the choice of major oil corporations to have head offices there is perhaps natural; to have major Canadian corporations move from Montreal to Calgary is an eye-popper)!!

I applaud West Jet, (though I have never used it, largely as I have lived overseas for 15 years) and love watching it take a major role in the North American air market.
Given that West Jet regional service to smaller centres as "spokes," with the modern torboprop planes is coming onstream, it has been mentioned that West Jet may be eventually looking overseas. If so, I hope they'll start a CDG (or even ORY)<>YYC scheduled route, and include Vancouver along the way. Here's why I think so: ...

§ Air France and Air Canada both fly CDG daily (or more) to YYZ and YUL.

Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton combined form a market of around 4.5
million; enough to warrant direct Western Canada to France service, even if three times a week.

If We had YVR plus YYC year round that would be for a city about the size of Montreal.
...(OK, you say, not French enough; a more British/Northern European/Asian market that wouldn't work etc etc)....

Nevetheless, at a market of 3.5m Vancouver with Edmonton combined, there might be enough yeild to have a YVR-YEG flightas well.

YVR-YYC about 3.5m also, but more important economically, Calgary being as it is. The Vancouver (the largest market, pushing 2.3m) would be a large source for many tourists wishing to visit Paris, or travelling on business to Europe, with Paris CDG being the most "connected" airport (more destinations in Europe than anywhere else on the Continent).

It is a choice destination.

A salesman at YVR with whom I connect on occasion said that YVR - Paris (be it CDG or ORY) is a "hole" in Vancouver's network, yet nobody is willing to take it, as before the Europe - Canada Open Skies agreement was ratified, Air France had asked permission for Vancouver landing rigts, and at that time, had been turned down so many times, that it went to Seattle instead which it codeshares with its Skyteam partner DELTA.

If renting fuel-efficient 787s, any such yield factor from Vancouver could only be augmented by including Calgary and Edmonton. Conversely, if West Jet decided to start with scheduled YYC - CDG (or YEG) this would be all the viable and justifiable if the Vancouver part of this air market is included.

Delta-AF operates 3 times perweek Seattle - Paris nonstop. Seattle metro pop. nearly 4 m. as a comparison of market size (although a different economy, I will admit) ... Still, they don't have that big a "French Connection" as does Montreal.

In summum, couldn't West Jet do something as I mentioned above?

Air Canada sure won't, and they want you to go through YYZ anyway.!!

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

A salesman at YVR with whom I connect on occasion said that YVR - Paris (be it CDG or ORY) is a "hole" in Vancouver's network, yet nobody is willing to take it, as before the Europe - Canada Open Skies agreement was ratified, Air France had asked permission for Vancouver landing rigts, and at that time, had been turned down so many times, that it went to Seattle instead which it codeshares with its Skyteam partner DELTA.

In summum, couldn't West Jet do something as I mentioned above?

Air Canada sure won't, and they want you to go through YYZ anyway.!!

KLM and Air France are basically the same company. If they are feeding flights into Amsterdam at less than daily, I would not expect them to add Paris. WestJet and KLM codeshare for the connecting flights.

As for Air Canada, they operate the flights to germany as a joint venture with Lufthansa. For Air Canada and Lufthansa there are limited connecting opportunities in Paris in comparison to Germany and Switzerland designations. Don't see either one adding flights to Paris.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I applaud West Jet, (though I have never used it, largely as I have lived overseas for 15 years) and love watching it take a major role in the North American air market.
Given that West Jet regional service to smaller centres as "spokes," with the modern torboprop planes is coming onstream, it has been mentioned that West Jet may be eventually looking overseas. If so, I hope they'll start a CDG (or even ORY)<>YYC scheduled route, and include Vancouver along the way. [/B][/I]

Westjet would need to increase the number of bilingual flight attendants by a whole heck of alot to be able to operate flights into France. The current number of designated bilingual flight attendants is limited. For example, just this past week, a flight that I was on from YUL to YYC was operated by all English speaking only flight attendants.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

Westjet would need to increase the number of bilingual flight attendants by a whole heck of alot to be able to operate flights into France. The current number of designated bilingual flight attendants is limited. For example, just this past week, a flight that I was on from YUL to YYC was operated by all English speaking only flight attendants.

Hm. Interesting. I know there are significant French-Speaking (mostly former Québecois) in The Lower Mainland. There was a raft of them when I was at university, all going in for French Immersion Teaching.

If the teaching market is not so hot, surely there must be sources of potential bilingual flight attendants.

St. Albert (Edmonton) was, anyway, a French community, and if West Jet recruited bilingual attendants through ads in major cities, I'll bet there'd be a lot of a response, and a shortlist of candidates large enough to staff YYC-CDG.


I'm surprised and disappointed that a Paris flight interests so few people.

[YYCguys]

Oh for sure, they are recruiting like crazy and mostly for bilingual flight attendants, but there's only so many spaces available for each class and for prudent financial reasons, I'm sure there's a limited number of classes being held each year, so it's a slow process.

[Cage]

YVR-CDG has been tried and failed twice by AC in late 90's. Combined with daily KLM service to AMS, there is little need for nonstop service to CDG. YEG-LHR did better than YVR-CDG going head to head.

Is there a small market for YVR(or western Canada) to CDG, yes. However this is the same market that currently flies through LHR (AC and BA), FRA (LH and AC), and AMS (KLM), plus a tonne of code-shares through YYZ and YUL. The market is well served through these destinations.

WS has stated the earliest they will entertain widebody services is 2018. The regional arm will need to be built out first and then its onto overseas services. As for WS going into CDG, this will happen if Air Transat or another tour operator can manage the route more than once per week and preferentially daily.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

....Paris CDG being the most "connected" airport (more destinations in Europe than anywhere else on the Continent).

It is a choice destination.

The most diverse (number of destinations served nonstop) hub in Europe is IST(with 172 cities served from IST), followed by FRA and then CDG.

See this article for further detail:
http://www.anna.aero/2011/11/10/turk...hub-in-europe/

[Bigtime]

With YYC having daily LHR, FRA, and AMS flights I just don't see the point of the CDG wish. Especially with KLM here and their ties to Air France.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

With YYC having daily LHR, FRA, and AMS flights I just don't see the point of the CDG wish. Especially with KLM here and their ties to Air France.

I have often thought the CDG wish comes from people who don't fly but like taking pictures of airplanes. Its the same crowd that wants something different from the AC Embraer, Jazz CRJ, and Westjet 737.

Moreover I think we (YYC based travellers and airport supporters) have to stop thinking about Europe as the strategic direction and start thinking about Asia. Bigtime your right in that YYC has great European scheduled and charter flights. The next focus needs to be Asia: first with supporting the AC NRT expirement (and its very much still in the expiremental stage), and then perhaps HKG once NRT is daily year round and profitable.

As far as missing destinations to hub airports from YYC, I think there are few other strategic priorities above CDG. ATL on DL for instance, 1-2 daily flights connecting into ATL DL operation would do a lot more to spur competition, DTW would be a second priority, even if it means MSP gets reduced or cut entirely. Second priority, IMHO, should be to get back ORD on AA/AE metal. Finally, EWR on a UA metal would be the third best strategic priority for transborder.

[Bigtime]

Did we not have ATL service a few years back (with Delta)? I seem to think it was here and short lived.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Cage

I have often thought the CDG wish comes from people who don't fly but like taking pictures of airplanes. Its the same crowd that wants something different from the AC Embraer, Jazz CRJ, and Westjet 737.

I've gone YYC-YYZ-CDG before and have always wished for a renewal of direct service. Subsequent to my fantastic visit to Paris, I wanted to take the family, but when we looked at routing/travel time/cost of multi-segment flights, decided to stick with direct routes and went elsewhere. Paris is a world city and we need to be connected. No CDG would be like no flights to New York as you can connect via Chicago. Hello?