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Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > SSP: Local Calgary > Transportation & Infrastructure

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  #9541  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 8:34 PM
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I thought it was six BAe-146's/Avro RJ's with gravel kits they were after.
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  #9542  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
I thought it was six BAe-146's/Avro RJ's with gravel kits they were after.
Hmm, maybe the 146 they have (second one is for spares) isn't doing the job and the Q400's were available at a price that couldn't be beat?
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  #9543  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 9:56 PM
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I was under the impression the one they have now was just dragged out of the graveyard at the end of 28 as it was needed immediately and was not intended to be permanent.
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  #9544  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 9:58 PM
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http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1422607/

This is dated October 4th.

"Departing back to Kemble prior delivery after repaint. Next reg C-GSUI under sticker."
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  #9545  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 11:02 PM
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Westjet - where to next?

So I just had another look at the Westjet winter schedules.

Westjet adding almost 7,000 additional seats per week this winter to 39 destinations. 22 domestic, 9 transborder and 8 international.

So what will be destination #40??

I wouldn't be surprised to see a non-stop to Yellowknife and/or Whitehorse on the horizon.

Perhaps another city in BC?

Most major centres in Central and Eastern Canada already served. Hard to think of any left out that direction that could warrant a non-stop flight.
     
     
  #9546  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 11:13 PM
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I would think Kitimat (YXT).
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  #9547  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 11:38 PM
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Castlegar please! Pretty please!!
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  #9548  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
I'm hearing that North Cariboo Air has purchased 6 Q400's from an operator in Europe. Can anyone confirm?
Asked a NCB pilot that very question, and he said yes, in the spring I believe.

Edit: actually, iirc, it was a combo of 4 (?) RJ-85's and 2 Q400's. Doh!
     
     
  #9549  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YegFan View Post
Wrong! (1) So, YEG needs to satisfy WS plans for growth ex YYC.

Every market carries some price sensitivity. Here's an example for you:

(2) The Washington area is served by three airports. BWI happens to be the busiest in terms of passengers. And guess what: 80% of the traffic at BWI belong to Southwest. Now, can you claim that the DC area is a very price sensitive market, and no one will want to serve BWI. Wrong!

(3) The only reason why YYC is what is today, is because it is dependent on traffic connecting from throughout Western Canada. YYC has more O&D than YEG does. Not doubt. But to claim that YEG is a deadbeat market and should cater for AC and WS preference to connect pax through YYC, is not and won't fly anymo0re with ERAA.

(4) What WS spends on codeshare efforts has nothing to do with what YEG wants to do. It is a partnership. And not ERAA will do what WS dictates!
(1) In a YEG future market perspective yes ERAA should look at promoting WS YYC services that are not served nonstop from YEG. For example ERAA would do well to promote WS YEG-YYC connect to AA YYC-DFW. If 60 people per day were doing this routing, the route economics would be a lot more stable and ERAA is in a much better position to market YEG-DFW nonstop.

I am not advocating connecting through YYC where there is n/s: YEG-PHX on WS is an example. I am also advocating that ERAA promote stop the YYC habit as driving to YYC inorder to catch a flight. At this point the Edmonton vacationer is counted as a YYC pax.

(2) BWI is a good example of marketing niche. Also a good example of a very price sensitive market. BWI and IAD pull from the same/similar catchment areas and are about the same size @ 22 million pax per annum. However IAD has 6.7 million international pax per annum and 24 international airlines while BWI only manages a single BA 763 service to LHR.

The DC area is not very price sensative owing to the high yields out of DCA and IAD. However BWI is very price sensitive and were it not for WN woiuld be a PIT style ghost town. In this example its Baltimore that is very price sensative.

(3) its the strong O&D market with above average yield strength is what makes YYC market work. W Canada connection traffic is the plus factor. Hubs that do not have strong O&D markets are going by the wayside and being dehubbed. PIT, BWI, CVG, MEM, STL, MCI (the airport never to have a hub airline) and DAY are all dehubbed not because of the connection traffic but because of the weak O&D market.

Ultimately it was a strong O&D market that saved DEN from the PIT like obliteration.

As for ERAA catering to AC and WS strategic decisions, yes ERAA must cater to atleast one of the two major players. Alternately they can pick and choose their catering platforms. AC for International, WS for Transborder, both for domestic. What ERAA cannot do is piss off both AC and WS; they have publicly pissed off AC, but watch out for sleeper reaction from WS. WS does not have a history of getting into public relations fist fights, their approach is to quietly leave town before anyone notices they are gone. You want an example of WS market retreat, I give you two: YHM and YMX (Moncton). YHM was suposed to have been the LCC answer for YYZ, but when yields failed to materialize WS went publicly at first to YYZ and then quietly pulled down YHM 2 years later. YMX was suposed to have been the WS hub for Atlantic Canada with hub bypass over YHM/YYZ and to Western Canada. YMX today is pretty much a spoke to YYZ.

(4) show me an example of a market that A) picked a fight with its major player, B) won the fight and is better off service wise for it.

The list of airports that picked a fight with the airlines (refused to be dictated to) and lost include: BWI (old USAir), PIT (US), CVG (DL), MCO (DL), DEN (old CO, old WN), LAX (UA, AA, DL), SFO (WN).
     
     
  #9550  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2013, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage View Post
You want an example of WS market retreat, I give you two: YHM and YMX (Moncton).
Of course we know you mean YQM and not YMX (Mirabel).
     
     
  #9551  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2013, 1:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage View Post
(1) In a YEG future market perspective yes ERAA should look at promoting WS YYC services that are not served nonstop from YEG. For example ERAA would do well to promote WS YEG-YYC connect to AA YYC-DFW. If 60 people per day were doing this routing, the route economics would be a lot more stable and ERAA is in a much better position to market YEG-DFW nonstop.

I am not advocating connecting through YYC where there is n/s: YEG-PHX on WS is an example. I am also advocating that ERAA promote stop the YYC habit as driving to YYC inorder to catch a flight. At this point the Edmonton vacationer is counted as a YYC pax.

(2) BWI is a good example of marketing niche. Also a good example of a very price sensitive market. BWI and IAD pull from the same/similar catchment areas and are about the same size @ 22 million pax per annum. However IAD has 6.7 million international pax per annum and 24 international airlines while BWI only manages a single BA 763 service to LHR.

The DC area is not very price sensative owing to the high yields out of DCA and IAD. However BWI is very price sensitive and were it not for WN woiuld be a PIT style ghost town. In this example its Baltimore that is very price sensative.

(3) its the strong O&D market with above average yield strength is what makes YYC market work. W Canada connection traffic is the plus factor. Hubs that do not have strong O&D markets are going by the wayside and being dehubbed. PIT, BWI, CVG, MEM, STL, MCI (the airport never to have a hub airline) and DAY are all dehubbed not because of the connection traffic but because of the weak O&D market.

Ultimately it was a strong O&D market that saved DEN from the PIT like obliteration.

As for ERAA catering to AC and WS strategic decisions, yes ERAA must cater to atleast one of the two major players. Alternately they can pick and choose their catering platforms. AC for International, WS for Transborder, both for domestic. What ERAA cannot do is piss off both AC and WS; they have publicly pissed off AC, but watch out for sleeper reaction from WS. WS does not have a history of getting into public relations fist fights, their approach is to quietly leave town before anyone notices they are gone. You want an example of WS market retreat, I give you two: YHM and YMX (Moncton). YHM was suposed to have been the LCC answer for YYZ, but when yields failed to materialize WS went publicly at first to YYZ and then quietly pulled down YHM 2 years later. YMX was suposed to have been the WS hub for Atlantic Canada with hub bypass over YHM/YYZ and to Western Canada. YMX today is pretty much a spoke to YYZ.

(4) show me an example of a market that A) picked a fight with its major player, B) won the fight and is better off service wise for it.

The list of airports that picked a fight with the airlines (refused to be dictated to) and lost include: BWI (old USAir), PIT (US), CVG (DL), MCO (DL), DEN (old CO, old WN), LAX (UA, AA, DL), SFO (WN).

Well, let me tell you this....Neither AC or WS will want to leave town. Remember that so much traffic is inbound and not just as you like to claim, low yielding vacation seekers, outbound passengers using YEG.

And I think that YEG has every right to pursue AA for flights to DFW regaress of what WS thinks. If they want to fly passengers there, then provide the metal. Don't force people to go through Calgary. And if they don't like it...they can cut a frequency from YEG to YYC.

You can list all airports you want. The main reason for dehubbing of airports in the US is due to consolidation and has nothing to do with pissing off airlines.
     
     
  #9552  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2013, 3:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Castlegar please! Pretty please!!
Try nonstop to Dauphin MB from YYC. It's only 57 minutes from YWG to Dauphin, in a twin Beech Queen Air.
     
     
  #9553  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2013, 4:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie View Post
Of course we know you mean YQM and not YMX (Mirabel).
Wow that was an embarrassing brain fart!

Only thing left to say is that I don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
     
     
  #9554  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2013, 7:52 PM
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Cariboo is getting 2 RJ-100s and north gate aviation bought all 8 of Augsburg airs Q400s, two were sold right away with three more on the choping block so at the end of the day cariboo will operate a max of three Qs. The first RJ should be here on the 20th of November with the second some time in December. Once the second RJ arrives the 146 will be returned to avmax. Qs should start arriving at the beginning of December and looking to be operational sometime late Q1 of 2014. Qs will probably be doing a lot of flying out of YVR.

Figured I would put a few rumors to rest!

BE20
     
     
  #9555  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2013, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE20 View Post
Cariboo is getting 2 RJ-100s and north gate aviation bought all 8 of Augsburg airs Q400s, two were sold right away with three more on the choping block so at the end of the day cariboo will operate a max of three Qs. The first RJ should be here on the 20th of November with the second some time in December. Once the second RJ arrives the 146 will be returned to avmax. Qs should start arriving at the beginning of December and looking to be operational sometime late Q1 of 2014. Qs will probably be doing a lot of flying out of YVR.

Figured I would put a few rumors to rest!

BE20
Geez, the guy sitting next to me, who actually posed the questions to the pilot, couldn't have given me crappier information. The nerve of some people. In any event, with the 146 being returned, are they steering clear of them from here on or are there plans to operate some in the future? They are a bit of an odd duck, but they do look sharp in the NCB paint job. On the downside, yay! more tin can RJ's.....
     
     
  #9556  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Geez, the guy sitting next to me, who actually posed the questions to the pilot, couldn't have given me crappier information. The nerve of some people. In any event, with the 146 being returned, are they steering clear of them from here on or are there plans to operate some in the future? They are a bit of an odd duck, but they do look sharp in the NCB paint job. On the downside, yay! more tin can RJ's.....
Avro RJ100, which is a BAe-146NG if you will.
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  #9557  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2013, 1:37 PM
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And the cariboo Q's are on the move!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NFOZFlQroEk
     
     
  #9558  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2013, 2:34 PM
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Interesting:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...510/story.html

Shale oil buzz prompts new air service to Norman Wells, N.W.T.

A new corporate shuttle service will fly energy executives from Calgary to the Northwest Territories town that some believe could be the centre of North America’s next shale oil boom.

On Wednesday, Calgary-based Discovery Air International celebrated the upcoming launch of its new, scheduled service between Calgary and Norman Wells, NWT — a small community nearly 700 km northwest of Yellowknife. Using a Bombardier Challenger 601 jet equipped with a 12-passenger executive interior, the service will run three times a week starting Nov. 13.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This kind of reminds me of Platinum Jet Air, if I recall they had 1 or 2 F100's that they were going to operate in an all business class configuration from YYC. Never did get off the ground, I think one jet did get painted up. However this plan seems to at least be rooted in some reality, and a company behind it that has done their homework and sees a market for this service.
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Last edited by Bigtime; Nov 7, 2013 at 3:09 PM.
     
     
  #9559  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2013, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
Avro RJ100, which is a BAe-146NG if you will.
Aaaaaahhhh, that makes more sense! You see, with the exception of Jazz's B146's (until early 2000's) and more recently NCB's B146, the BAC jet is a rare bird indeed in this part of the world, and to my aviation lexicon. "RJ-100" has almost exclusively been used to describe the Canadair product. Saying Avro RJ-(whatever model) much clearer. In any event, my mistake.
     
     
  #9560  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2013, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime View Post
Interesting:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...510/story.html

Shale oil buzz prompts new air service to Norman Wells, N.W.T.

A new corporate shuttle service will fly energy executives from Calgary to the Northwest Territories town that some believe could be the centre of North America’s next shale oil boom.

On Wednesday, Calgary-based Discovery Air International celebrated the upcoming launch of its new, scheduled service between Calgary and Norman Wells, NWT — a small community nearly 700 km northwest of Yellowknife. Using a Bombardier Challenger 601 jet equipped with a 12-passenger executive interior, the service will run three times a week starting Nov. 13.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This kind of reminds me of Platinum Jet Air, if I recall they had 1 or 2 F100's that they were going to operate in an all business class configuration from YYC. Never did get off the ground, I think one jet did get painted up. However this plan seems to at least be rooted in some reality, and a company behind it that has done their homework and sees a market for this service.
Agreed, Platinum Jet was part of the Corporate Express mob right? Never made it off the ground. Flights were to go to YYZ. Was like OzJet here in Australia, business class only between MEL-SYD. Had the "pleasure" of trying them a few times. BUT...another very short-lived venture.. doomed to fail from the get go.

Anyway, good to see YYC getting more of the Northern Canada pie. As the article mentions, passengers can avoid connecting in YEG and YZF. Niches like this will probably continue.
     
     
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