H1N1 Watch

[SteelTown]

H1N1 flu outbreak hits Hamilton schools

September 29, 2009
Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/644195

An outbreak of H1N1 Influenza A has been confirmed by the public health department at Columbia International College.

The public health department announced confirmation of the flu - otherwise known as the swine flu - at the Main Street West school this afternoon.

The health department also confirmed an outbreak of Influenza A at St. Mark’s Catholic Elementary School in Stoney Creek. It has not been confirmed as H1N1 at the Whitedeer Road school, but the health department said that is the predominant strain circulating.

[adam]

There have been several confirmed cases in Halton already with one dating back to last June.

[matt602]

And as of today I'm sick. This is definitely a news story I wanted to read.

[SteelTown]

H1N1 rate soars in Hamilton

October 24, 2009
By Naomi Powell
Spectator staff
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/659767

H1N1 flu activity in Hamilton has already surpassed previous peak levels of seasonal flu and may still be on the rise, health officials say.

The number of positive H1N1 tests spiked to 21 per cent last week, up from 6 per cent the prior week, said Dr. Chris Mackie, Hamilton's associate medical officer of health.

"We're seeing more cases now than we did at any time in the last two years," Mackie said. "(H1N1) spreads a lot more easily and that's in part because we don't have a baseline level of immunity in the community."

Flu activity in Hamilton is "normally at zero" at this time of year, he said. A typical flu season runs from Christmas to March, with the number of positive tests usually at about 20 per cent.

But the novel H1N1 virus has broken with patterns, causing an initial wave of infections in the spring that tapered off through the summer.

Dr. Arlene King, Ontario's chief medical officer of health, confirmed yesterday that a second wave of H1N1 has arrived in the province.

"Influenza activity in the province is continuing to increase," she said. "We are seeing that more people are visiting their health-care providers with influenza-like illness and more people are being hospitalized with complications from the flu in Ontario."

Halton has experienced a similar spike in positive H1N1 tests, said Dr. Bob Nosal, the region's medical officer of health.

Health officials can't test everyone with flu-like symptoms, but they use a sampling of lab tests from patients in hospitals, long-term care homes and doctors to evaluate the spread of the virus.

Hamilton and Halton will make the first batch of the H1N1 vaccine available to people in high-risk groups next week. The clinics will be opened to the general public as more vaccine comes in.

"It would have been nice to have the vaccine a couple of weeks ago before the increase in activity ... ," Nosal said. "We should still be able to make an impact on transmission."

[FairHamilton]

Neither of us are getting the shot. What are others doing?

[BrianE]

Nine month old son will be getting it for sure as will my wife and I. Whatever risks there may be to getting a flu shot they're infinitly smaller than the risks of getting a bad case of the Swine Flu.

[crhayes]

A good friend of mine at MAC got the swine flu.... she is really ill right now and not even attending school... it's sad :(

[SteelTown]

I'll be getting the vaccine.

I know one who has it, massive headaches and a fever.

[emge]

I'm only getting it if the hospital I work at in December requires it, and I don't even know if that's one in Hamilton yet.

[adam]

Is anyone aware of the quantity of heavy metals in this vaccine and their effect on the body?

[realcity]

I'm getting the vaccine, I get it every year... in fact I'll get any vaccination that is invented.

We don't have small pox or polio or a host of other viruses anymore thanks to vaccines. I'll never understand why people don't get it. Those that don't.... ask yourself... when you take your dog to the vet and he/she recommends a vaccination 'shot'... do you do it?

It seems to be a hippy thing to not get it.... and for no valid reason.

[realcity]

Is anyone aware of the quantity of heavy metals in this vaccine and their effect on the body?

ridiculous.... much less then your tap water.....

[emge]

I'm getting the vaccine, I get it every year... in fact I'll get any vaccination that is invented.

We don't have small pox or polio or a host of other viruses anymore thanks to vaccines. I'll never understand why people don't get it. Those that don't.... ask yourself... when you take your dog to the vet and he/she recommends a vaccination 'shot'... do you do it?

It seems to be a hippy thing to not get it.... and for no valid reason.

Eh, I have nothing against vaccines, especially childhood immunization, but immunization against the latest strain of something is somewhat different than the polio vaccine.

It's more for reasons of time than anything else to be honest - is it worth it to give up my time and possibly get slightly symptomatic from a vaccine for something if its only good for a little while?

[highwater]

The kids and I will be getting H1N1, as well as the regular flu shots. We've got too many people with 'underlying conditions' in our lives, and I'm not about to put them at risk of catching anything from us. Also I know a couple of women my age who had it and they were very sick. I can't afford to be laid up like that with three young kids.

[adam]

ridiculous.... much less than your tap water.....

City of Hamilton Woodward Ave annual water report shows very low mercury levels at 0.00005 mg/L.
Meanwhile H1N1 vaccine contains thimerosal (49% mercury) and squalene (aluminum)

Interesting read on mercury levels in the H1N1 vaccine
http://www.h1n1-treatment.com/treatment_and_prevention/swine_flu_vaccine_contains_mercury.html

[BrianE]

adam.

Your previous post disgusts me.

This is not a personal attack on you. This is just how i feel right now about your last post.

That link you posted contains so many half truths, outdated and misleading information and out right lies and such a shocking lack of reference to solid scientific information that it makes my want to cry.

That you have fallen for this misinformation and that you specifically cited Thimerisol suggests to me that you have uncritically swallowed a river full of lies and misinformation propagated by the Anti-Vaccine crowd.

I strongly urge you to reconsider your sources of information, I would suggest this site: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2116

A short Exerpt:

And while we are on the topic of influenza vaccine and thimerosal, the single-dose syringes have no thimerosal. Only the multi-dose vials contain any thimerosal, with each dose containing 25 micrograms of ethylmercury. This 3.5 times less than what you would get from eating a single can of tuna (~87 mcg), is a form of mercury far more rapidly cleared than most environmental mercury exposures (methylmercury), and has been exonerated from suspicion as a cause of autism.

If you would like something more official, then try here: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/vaccine_vaccin-eng.php

I hope that everyone here also follows this link just so they can see the levels of dishonesty and down right criminal levels of mis-information being spread about by the anti vaccine movement.

[flar]

My thinking right now is that everyone in my family will get the shot. From what I know, it's safe. The manufacturing process and equipment are identical to that used to make the seasonal flu vaccines that millions of people receive every year. There might be a 1 in a million chance of getting Guillaine-Barre, of which 80% of cases make a full recovery.

The vaccine available to Canadians will not contain Thimerasol. Thimerasol is actually good, as it protects the vaccine from bacterial or fungal contamination (those things would really make the vaccine unsafe).

The vaccine will, however, contain an adjuvant, which is a substance that boosts the effectiveness of the vaccine. I believe there will be a limited supply of non-adjuvanted vaccines for pregnant women and possible very young children. I don't know which adjuvant is being used in the Canadian vaccines, and this is my only concern about the vaccine, particularly if squalene is used.

[realcity]

I still haven't heard any real valid reason against the vaccine. It's rumours gone crazy. The other argument against is some reason its evil to make a profit. I run a business and I do it to make money.

Read any over the counter drug, heart meds all medication has possible side-effects. That goes for vaccines... of course there are risks. Taking Aspirin can cause Reye's Syndrome.... so don't take ASA either.

This is a flu that effects young healthy children... i see it as my responsibility to vaccinate myself.

It's also not true the vaccine will make you sick... IT's Dead....it doesn't contain the virus.. just the current morphing of the shell that surrounds the actual flu virus. If you got sick, it is usually just a coincidence that perhaps you got the rhinovirus a day after the shot and blamed the shot. There is no way to prove it. because the person might of got ill even without the shot, but would not be able to blame it on the shot.

[realcity]

@Adam
You're comparing one glass of water to one vaccine shot.

You drink tap water every day, all day long for life.

[realcity]

I don't care. I'm getting vaccinated and I'm not trying to convince anyone to do it or don't do it. Do whatever you want.

Jackson Sq clinic is wednesday

[oldcoote]

Jackson Sq clinic is wednesday

Details?

[highwater]

Details?

http://www.thespec.com/article/630464

[adam]

BrianE, you are correct that the amount of mercury in the vaccine is so small it would not affect most people. Apparently, Public Health Canada says the quantity of mercury in the vaccine is less than that of a can of tuna fish. However, the site says that both types of vaccines (in Canada) contain thimerosal. Here is the Public Health Canada FAQ: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/faq_rg_h1n1-eng.php )

However, I encourage everyone to read: http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Health+Canada+takes+word+others+H1N1+vaccine+safe/2146715/story.html
According to the article, Canada Health approved the vaccine without doing any clinical trials of their own but has claimed that it is safe to take based on a small clinical trial done in Belgium. This doesn't sound very safe to me.

Some other information I found while researching:
- Annually, the flu causes 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide each year.
- H1N1 has caused 5,850 as of Oct 21st this year.
- Countries in the southern hemisphere have already finished their flu season for this year and there was no indication of any pandemic.



Please, if anyone can refute what I presented above, I'd like you to post the info. Thanks.

[SteelTown]

One thing that is certain, H1N1 can kill even at non-risk people...

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/661126

[SteelTown]

Outbreaks 'spike' at city schools
Elementary grades hardest hit as students stay home with flu symptoms

October 27, 2009
Naomi Powell
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/660980

Nearly one-third of local public schools are battling respiratory outbreaks as the second wave of H1N1 influenza sweeps Hamilton.

Public health officials have identified outbreaks in 32 of 114 schools in the Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board, with all but one at elementary schools.

Twenty-eight of the outbreaks have been declared since the beginning of last week, as schools reported a surge in the number of students absent with flu-like symptoms.

"The outbreaks are across the city; there is no specific geographical area where it's happening," said Jackie Penman, spokesperson for the public school board.

"We only had one or two schools prior to last week and then it definitely spiked."

Outbreaks were also declared at six of the 57 schools in Hamilton's Catholic school board yesterday, down from nine schools on Friday.

Those numbers are expected to change as absences grow among secondary students, said Jackie Bajus, superintendent of education for the board.

"It's definitely starting to hit the older kids," she said.

Meanwhile, emergency rooms were "inundated" with people experiencing flu symptoms over the weekend, said Bill Krizmanich, chief of emergency medicine at Hamilton Health Sciences. The flood of patients is straining emergency departments and driving wait times higher.

People experiencing mild symptoms should call their family doctors and only use emergency rooms if they are severely ill, he said.

"We still have to maintain our responsibility to treat all those patients who don't have flu."

Hamilton's public health department is notified when more than 5 per cent of students in a school stay home with flu-like symptoms such as coughing, sore throat, runny nose, body aches, headaches, chills and fever.

Public health then monitors the school for several days, looking for signs of ongoing transmission, before declaring an outbreak.

The public health department isn't testing for the H1N1 virus in every school, but there's "a good chance" it's behind most of the respiratory outbreaks, said Dr. Chris Mackie, Hamilton's associate medical officer of health.

"I'll put it this way -- we haven't identified any outbreaks that aren't pandemic H1N1," he said.

One school in the public board reported 30 per cent of its students absent, though some may have been kept home for other reasons or as a preventive measure, said John Forbeck, superintendent of staff and community engagement. He declined to identify the school.

In Halton as of yesterday, 23 of the region's 140 Catholic and public schools had at least 5 per cent of students away following a dramatic increase last week, said Dr. Bob Nosal, Halton's medical officer of health. Nine schools reported 10 per cent or more of their students absent with flu-like symptoms, he added.

The first wave of H1N1 arrived in Halton in the spring, hitting Oakville schools first before spreading to Burlington. This time, the virus is scattered throughout the region, Nosal said, causing the most illness in Burlington schools.

In Hamilton, letters are sent home advising parents that a school has more than 5 per cent absenteeism and reminding them of needed precautions. Halton isn't declaring outbreaks so no letters are sent home.

The Hamilton and Halton school boards have arranged additional daily cleaning in schools with specific instructions to disinfect surfaces. The public board also called a special meeting of principals yesterday to review flu protocols.

[BrianE]

BrianE, you are correct that the amount of mercury in the vaccine is so small it would not affect most people. Apparently, Public Health Canada says the quantity of mercury in the vaccine is less than that of a can of tuna fish. However, the site says that both types of vaccines (in Canada) contain thimerosal. Here is the Public Health Canada FAQ: http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/faq_rg_h1n1-eng.php )

However, I encourage everyone to read: http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Health+Canada+takes+word+others+H1N1+vaccine+safe/2146715/story.html
According to the article, Canada Health approved the vaccine without doing any clinical trials of their own but has claimed that it is safe to take based on a small clinical trial done in Belgium. This doesn't sound very safe to me.

Some other information I found while researching:
- Annually, the flu causes 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide each year.
- H1N1 has caused 5,850 as of Oct 21st this year.
- Countries in the southern hemisphere have already finished their flu season for this year and there was no indication of any pandemic.



Please, if anyone can refute what I presented above, I'd like you to post the info. Thanks.

Certainly, from the very same Montreal Gazette article that you posted.

"Data from a clinical trial conducted in Belgium, using the same version of the vaccine produced by GSK in Dresden, Germany, was reviewed, as was initial safety data from European and Japanese studies using the Quebec-produced vaccine Arepanrix," Health Canada spokeswoman Christelle Legault said in an e-mail

So... not just data from Belgium after all.

Aglukkaq said Health Canada approved the vaccine ahead of the initial target of early November because "the international community was able to share their clinical data and work with us."

If you think that Canadians are somehow physiologicaly different than other human beings then I got news for you... we're not. Rigorous studies performed by other countries are a perfectly valid source of information, to ignore scientific data just because it's not Canadian is rediculous and irresponsible at the least.

- Annually, the flu causes 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide each year.
- H1N1 has caused 5,850 as of Oct 21st this year.
- Countries in the southern hemisphere have already finished their flu season for this year and there was no indication of any pandemic.

Where do you get your numbers? between 250 000 and 500 000 deaths? A standard error of 100%.... nice and accurate. Here's a great link (http://www.thinktwice.com/flu_lie.htm)from an anti vaccine site that you probably have read that argues annual flu deaths are one big lie... nothing to worry about at all only 753 people died from the flu in 2002. The CDC estimates 36000 btw, I'll bet last year before H1N1 hit you were down playing the 36000 number in order to convince people not to get the regular flu shot. Now you're hyper inflating the 36000 deaths into 500 000 per year to justify not getting the H1N1 shot. Nice.

The chief concern over swine flu is that it has a tendancy to affect the young and healthy disproportionately when compared to the regular flu. If you don't find that concerning, I must further question your grip on reality. Healthy people don't die from the usual influenza.

Yes, 5850 is a low number but I also look at other factors, for example. Of the number of pregnant women who had to go to the hospital due to Swine flu complications, 30% died. Sure, that's a percentage of a percentage of the population but come on man.... this is very concerning stuff.

Oh and btw. So far the number of deaths as a direct result of flu vaccinations still stands at 0. Let me know when that number starts to creep up to 5850.

[realcity]

this is what pisses me off with Canada and drugs. We let the US FDA do all the testing, use on their population then years later Canada says it must be safe.

All to save money. But could you imagine the jobs created in research if Canada decided to test pharma drugs with our own labs.

I'm not making this up, I worked in pharma for years. Canada has the lowest rate of R&D jobs in the developed world.


@Adam... I'm not surprised Canada didn't do its own testing... this is normal for most drugs in Canada.

Our only own Canadian drug co. is Apotex which only makes generics after the patents expired. Our GlaxoSmithKlines etc are foreign branch plants with R&D done in their company of origin.

[adam]

What kind of study quality could we expect from a lab that gets paid by the drug company that owns the rights to the vaccine?

Also I am not sure why H1N1 is being reported as a "pandemic" when well under 3,000 people have died from it worldwide. South America, Australia and all other countries in the southern hemisphere have finished their flu season for 2009. There was no pandemic in any of these countries for 2009.

[eternallyme]

I think a far, far, far greater percentage of young people are in high risk groups than are believed. Most of the "healthy" children that have died from H1N1 probably had asthma or something and didn't know it.

[BrianE]

Aaaaaannnd here we go. The last refuge of the anti vaccine kook.

'We can't trust any data that contradicts my insane position because a pharmaceutical company paid to do quality control and quality assurance on their own product'

or

Big pharma stands to make a profit on vaccines therefore any pro vaccine data that comes out must be made up or biased in some way.

How you even get up in the morning astounds me since EVERYTHING you touch or eat or drive in is tested by.... yes that's right! the very same company that produced that product in conjunction with government regulatory agencies. Just like any pharmaceutical or vaccine.

Also consider this. A single dose of vaccine costs a few dollars to make and drug companies do make a profit on them. But this profit pales in comparision to the money they could make from mass amounts of people being hospitalised by the disease that the vaccine was made for. If you think that they wouldn't make a ton more money on treating sick patients for days at a time in a hospital. I would again question your grip on reality.

[BrianE]

I think a far, far, far greater percentage of young people are in high risk groups than are believed. Most of the "healthy" children that have died from H1N1 probably had asthma or something and didn't know it.

'I think'

'probably'

'or something'

Really??? You want to back up those lame statements with some evidence?

Because I've got some (http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/661422)

Public health officials confirmed that the sudden death of 13-year-old Evan Frustaglio was a direct result of swine flu. The Toronto teen, an avid hockey player with no known health conditions, was taken to a walk-in clinic Sunday and advised to take over-the-counter medications. He appeared to be recovering yesterday, but collapsed later in the day and died within 10 minutes.

On Saturday, 10-year-old Vanetia Warner of Cornwall, Ont., also died from H1N1 under similar circumstances; she was sick for several days before her condition rapidly deteriorated

[highwater]

Great article on vaccinations:

http://www.nycskeptics.org/blog/?p=1078

[matt602]

Apparently my girlfriend was sick, got tested and showed positive for H1N1 by her doctor. This was about a week ago and I haven't gotten sick but if I do, I'm hitting up the doctor and mentioning it.

[emge]

Now that I know the vaccine clinics are at Jackson I think I will get one after all.

[Zaz]

I have communicated the following at work, after hearing a similar discussion:

Team,

I don't want to impose or start a discussion, but on behalf of all parents with small children, I would like to encourage everyone to get the H1N1 vaccine at your first available opportunity.

We all have our doubts, but after 2 strong healthy kids collapsed and died as a direct consequence of H1N1 last weekend, let's put our favorite conspiracy theories to rest and get it done.

Thanks team! :))

[eternallyme]

In the case of that boy that died this week, they found he had asthma that the parents did not know about (and flat out denied). That is probably the case in many, many other people as well.

As a result, I recommend that EVERYONE - except for those allergic to the products in the vaccination and infants under 6 months of age - get it as soon as possible. It can be hard for even doctors to know what you may and may not have.

Personally, I would have classified anyone under 18 - not under 6 - as highest risk.

[highwater]

Personally, I would have classified anyone under 18 - not under 6 - as highest risk.

I agree. They're dropping like flies in the schools. But I guess they couldn't roll the vaccine out fast enough to cover such a large population. Our family will definitely be getting vaccinated asap.

[eternallyme]

I agree. They're dropping like flies in the schools. But I guess they couldn't roll the vaccine out fast enough to cover such a large population. Our family will definitely be getting vaccinated asap.

Especially when even doctors have a hard time diagnosing underlying medical conditions such as asthma...for all we know, you and I could have things we don't know about...

[SteelTown]

Yet kids aren't on the high risk list. Guess they'll have to wait sometime next week.

For me I work at a hospital and a school so I could get the vaccine but I'll wait it out for others to get theirs first. I'm a germaphobe and I probably haven't had a flu in nearly 5 years or so *knock on wood*

[highwater]

Especially when even doctors have a hard time diagnosing underlying medical conditions such as asthma...for all we know, you and I could have things we don't know about...

...or in my case, things we know perfectly well about but are in denial. Maybe my 4 year old and I won't wait till next week. :rolleyes:

[SteelTown]

City's health system feels H1N1 strain
FIGHTING THE FLU

October 28, 2009
Naomi Powell
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/661703

Hamilton is considering opening specialized H1N1 assessment centres as family doctors and hospitals strain against a surge of patients with flu-like symptoms.

Local hospital emergency rooms, family doctors and ambulance dispatch centres all reported a significant increase in demand yesterday as the second wave of the H1N1 virus spreads.

"For now the system is coping," said Dr. Elizabeth Richardson, the city's medical officer of health. "But we need to be ready with an alternative if that coping falls down."

Signs of stress were evident throughout the city's health-care system yesterday:

* The number of people hospitalized with H1N1 in Hamilton went from 17 Monday to 27 yesterday, Richardson said;

* Ambulance services experienced a prolonged "code zero" situation, when one or no ambulances are available to respond to emergencies;

* Family physicians associated with Hamilton Health Sciences reported a 30 per cent increase in patient demand even after postponing non-essential appointments, such as annual physicals.

The city will finalize plans for the assessment centres over the next few days and will be ready to open the doors if the system becomes overwhelmed, Richardson said.

It would be the first time the city has taken the step. An assessment centre was established to handle patients during the SARS crisis but it never opened.

Plans are in place to provide two kinds of centres: one for patients with flu symptoms who can't get an appointment with a family doctor, and a second for patients requiring more significant care but "who don't need all the resources of an emergency room," Richardson said.

Specialized assessment centres were set up in Kingston yesterday after patient loads overwhelmed emergency rooms and family doctors, she said.

But not everyone is keen on the idea. The clinics would likely be staffed by family doctors who are already struggling to manage their own practices, said Dr. David Price, chief of family medicine at Hamilton Health Sciences.

"I know they've had to do this elsewhere but we really hope we won't get there," Price said.

At St. Joseph's Healthcare, administrators worried about a potential "double whammy" of patients and staff coming down with the flu.

"It's already a significant burden on the emergency department to do this work on top of the other work we have to do," said Dr. David Higgins, chief of staff at St. Joseph's. "The number of cases in the community are rising rapidly and our staff live in the community."

Halton is also experiencing significant stress on its emergency rooms, but has no plans for stand-alone assessment centres. If the situation becomes much worse, the region will establish secondary emergency rooms within hospitals to handle only flu patients, said Halton medical officer of health Dr. Bob Nosal.

Hospitals received their first shipment of the H1N1 vaccine yesterday to be doled out to front-line health-care workers. St. Joseph's received 1,000 doses for its staff of 4,000 workers.

The province delivered 23,000 doses of the vaccine to Hamilton on Friday. A second shipment of 26,000 doses was expected this weekend but hasn't yet arrived, said Dr. Chris Mackie, Hamilton's associate medical officer of health.

"We are expecting the next 28,000 (doses) within the next day or two," Mackie said. "But until we have it, we don't have it."

Mackie hopes to make the vaccine available to all health-care workers within a week. If enough additional doses of the flu shot arrive, local vaccination clinics could open to the public as early as Monday.

Niagara's public health department has confirmed plans to open their clinic to the general public on Monday.

In the meantime, health officials are urging residents with moderate symptoms to call TeleHealth Ontario (1-866-797-0000) before going to their doctor.

People with underlying health problems or experiencing significant dizziness or shortness of breath should go to the hospital, Mackie said.

"We are absolutely relying on the public to be thoughtful about when they are seeking care," he said. "If everybody who gets the flu goes to see their doctor it will completely overwhelm the system."


THE NUMBERS

38

The number of Hamilton public schools with outbreaks, six more than reported Monday.

27

The number of people hospitalized with H1N1 in Hamilton. It was 17 on Monday.

120

The number of family doctors affiliated with HHS, all of whom have stopped accepting routine appointments to see flu cases.

65

The percentage of Halton public schools with absence rates of more than 2 per cent, up from 5 per cent in early September.

[SteelTown]

Even if you get the vaccine you won't be fully immunized until approximately two weeks after the vaccination.

[oldcoote]

This vaccination rollout by local public health is starting to smell.

One clinic this week downtown, yet 5 in Dundas?

And why aren't health care professionals getting the vaccination at their place of work? Are they expected to line up with the rest of us?

[drpgq]

The line was super long at Jackson today.

[oldcoote]

Over 20% of the students absent today from the school where the DW works.

Unsure if they were all sick or parents being overly cautious, but those are some alarming numbers.

[flar]

Just took my daughter to get the shot. Thousands of people were lined up, they were giving out numbers. My wife got a number around 3 pm, and we just got home now.

[SteelTown]

Was a very sad sight at Mac this afternoon. ER completety packed, people overfilling the ER waiting area, OR waiting area packed and witnessed an entire family shaking and crying their eyes out in the middle of the hallway, don't know if it's H1N1 related.

[adam]

It is well documented that the worst place to be during a pandemic is in a large crowd. Having one vaccination centre at Jackson Square goes against all the documented research about large crowds and pandemics. All research on pandemics specifically advises to stay away from malls, concert venues, any other large gatherings. Is Health Canada not aware of this? Or is it really not a pandemic afterall?

Here is a report on H1N1 in the southern hemisphere dated August 9, 2009.. well into their 2009 flu season.
http://www.flu.gov/professional/global/southhemisphere.html
Read it for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Looks like it was a mild flu season for them this year. Also interesting to read is that H1N1 has been in circulation in populations for several years now.

[SteelTown]

Flu fear spurs wave of ER visits
Samples show H1N1 soaring

October 29, 2009
Joanna Frketich and Naomi Powell
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/662552

The number of positive H1N1 tests doubled in a week to twice what public health normally sees at the height of the regular flu season.

Kids are the hardest hit and have been flooding into McMaster Children's Hospital.

Its emergency department had 65 per cent more visits than normal Tuesday night. One in four emergency visits is now a child with flu symptoms.

"Are we at a peak or are we at the tip of the iceberg?" asked Dr. Bill Krizmanich, chief of emergency.

There are 66 Hamilton schools with outbreaks of pandemic flu.

"There is no immunity in kids," said Dr. Bob Nosal, Halton's medical officer of health. "You're getting far more infections and far more hospitalizations in kids than you do in the older population and of course that's the reverse of seasonal flu.

"The good news is that the number of very young that die is still a relatively small number."

Public health is expected to open two flu assessment clinics -- one in east Hamilton and one in the west end -- by this weekend to ease the strain on emergency departments and doctors' offices.

Flu shot clinics are continuing after Hamilton and Halton got second shipments of vaccine yesterday, relieving fears they would run out. Hamilton received 28,000 doses in addition to the 23,000 in its first shipment.

Lines to get the shot were more than three hours long in Hamilton and Halton. People started lining up five hours before Halton's first flu shot clinics opened yesterday. In Oakville, police closed the clinic at Halton Regional Centre an hour early last night because of concern about overcrowding.

Nosal said parents need to protect their kids by taking them to get the shot no matter how long the waits.

Public health is currently vaccinating children aged six months to under five years as well as other high-risk groups such as pregnant women, health-care workers and people under age 65 with chronic medical conditions.

"If you are in the risk groups, you must get immunized and you must get immunized sooner than later because unfortunately we've got significant spread of this virus occurring," Nosal said.

Hamilton isn't expected to open up its flu shot clinics to the general public, including children over the age of five, until a third shipment of vaccine, expected on the weekend, arrives.

Halton and Niagara have already made plans to expand their clinics to the general public on Monday.

The vaccine is in high demand as flu illness has been rising rapidly over the past few weeks in Hamilton and Halton.

Health officials can't test everyone with symptoms so they use a sampling of lab tests from patients in hospitals, long-term care homes and doctors' offices to evaluate the spread.

About three weeks ago, 6 per cent of tests were positive for H1N1. By the next week it was 21 per cent -- the normal peak for seasonal flu and the peak for the first wave of H1N1 in the spring.

Last week, it increased dramatically to 40 per cent.

While Krizmanich wonders whether numbers will continue to rise, Nosal said, "We clearly are in the peak of the second wave.

"The good news is the peak shouldn't last more than a three- to a four-week period."

It has strained emergency rooms, with St. Joseph's Hospital getting about 30 per cent more visits than normal while Hamilton General and Henderson General have had 10 per cent more visits.

But McMaster Children's Hospital has borne the brunt of the illness. Emergency visits have been up by 20 per cent for the past three weeks. One week ago, that jumped to 45 per cent and Tuesday it spiked to 65 per cent.

Worried parents are even coming from outside the region to the bring their kids to the children's hospital after being scared by the H1N1 deaths of a 13-year-old Mississauga hockey player and a 10-year-old eastern Ontario girl.

McMaster has opened influenza clinics at night, bringing in staff from across the children's hospital to help care for the sick kids coming in.

"They're swamped," said Pat MacDonald, president of the Ontario Nurses' Association local 70 at Hamilton Health Sciences.

"It's McMaster with the kids that has been really overwhelmed," she said.

[flar]

It is well documented that the worst place to be during a pandemic is in a large crowd. Having one vaccination centre at Jackson Square goes against all the documented research about large crowds and pandemics. All research on pandemics specifically advises to stay away from malls, concert venues, any other large gatherings. Is Health Canada not aware of this? Or is it really not a pandemic afterall?


I was thinking that as we waited around in hallways packed with people, but on the other hand, I work in an office complex with 10,000 other people and my wife works in an elementary school, so it's really just a matter of time before we're exposed to the virus. You can't just stay home till it's over.

Anyway, after hearing so many concerns about vaccines and having looked into vaccinations back when my daughter was born, the scientific literature suggests there is very little to worry about with vaccininations. My family is at greater risk every time we get into the car.

The mistrust of vaccines is symptomatic of the larger social phenomenon of diminishing trust in authority. No organization or profession (including doctors, once a highly respected group) enjoys legitimacy in the public eye. Why so much of this mistrust is focused on vaccinations is a good question for a sociologist to investigate.

[BrianE]

It is well documented that the worst place to be during a pandemic is in a large crowd. Having one vaccination centre at Jackson Square goes against all the documented research about large crowds and pandemics. All research on pandemics specifically advises to stay away from malls, concert venues, any other large gatherings. Is Health Canada not aware of this? Or is it really not a pandemic afterall?

Here is a report on H1N1 in the southern hemisphere dated August 9, 2009.. well into their 2009 flu season.
http://www.flu.gov/professional/global/southhemisphere.html
Read it for yourself and come to your own conclusion. Looks like it was a mild flu season for them this year. Also interesting to read is that H1N1 has been in circulation in populations for several years now.

Why do you keep referencing the Southern hemisphere? What makes you think that they are ahead of us in terms of pandemic stages?

H1N1 started in Mexico then migrated to the U.S. then Canada. Do you not remember the travel adviseries placed on North America late last winter? There's a reason why European countries and Japan and China weren't issuing travel adviseries to Australia, South Africa and Brazil, the first breakouts were here in North America.

How you come to the conclusion that the Southern hemisphere is the leading edge of the pandemic completely baffles me. I strongly urge you to reconsider your line of thinking.

From the link you posted:

In addition, these countries did not have a 2009 H1N1 outbreak prior to enter in their normal influenza season, as in Mexico and the U.S. How and whether 2009 H1N1 virus will behave in the Southern Hemisphere, after their normal flu season ends, remains to be seen.

[Trantor]

In addition, these countries did not have a 2009 H1N1 outbreak prior to enter in their normal influenza season, as in Mexico and the U.S. How and whether 2009 H1N1 virus will behave in the Southern Hemisphere, after their normal flu season ends, remains to be seen.

it doesnt remain to be seen. The outbreak has virtually disappeared here in Brazil since the end of winter.

NOTICE that the most affected areas in the southern hemisphere were the coldest ones (more to the south).

Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Southern Brazil.

Yes, Brazil is a very good example of it... since the country has tropical and temperate areas. (90% of the flu cases happened in the southern states, which are MUCH colder in the winter)

Everyone was talking about H1N1 and were scared... but now... nobody is worried anymore... while you would hear everyday news about new infections and deaths, you dont hear anything more at all about H1N1!!!

this is the most updated map I found (from the end of september, which corresponds to the transition from winter to spring here)... look the prevalence of deaths in the SOUTH of the country, the colder area.
http://f.i.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/images/09259352.gif

[BrianE]

it doesnt remain to be seen. The outbreak has virtually disappeared here in Brazil since the end of winter.

Everyone was talking about H1N1 and were scared... but now... nobody is worried anymore... while you would hear everyday news about new infections and deaths, you dont hear anything more at all about H1N1!!!
http://f.i.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/images/09259352.gif

Dude... or Dudette.

These words that you just typed are almost word for word the exact comments that people were making here in Canada and the US in May this year.

'Ho hum... so much for H1N1... pandemic my ass... I was worried but now I think it's no big deal... nobody in my kids class even got H1N1"

Six months later. completely different story. You guys are not ahead of us on this, you're 6 months behind.

[realcity]

What kind of study quality could we expect from a lab that gets paid by the drug company that owns the rights to the vaccine?

Also I am not sure why H1N1 is being reported as a "pandemic" when well under 3,000 people have died from it worldwide. South America, Australia and all other countries in the southern hemisphere have finished their flu season for 2009. There was no pandemic in any of these countries for 2009.


because it meets the definition of a pandemic

[markbarbera]

Today's Spec had a great editorial cartoon that just about sums up the whole vaccination debate:

http://media.hamiltonspectator.topscms.com/images/53/fb/8fa77b824cb490772bdcc40bff05.jpeg

[Trantor]

Dude... or Dudette.

These words that you just typed are almost word for word the exact comments that people were making here in Canada and the US in May this year.

'Ho hum... so much for H1N1... pandemic my ass... I was worried but now I think it's no big deal... nobody in my kids class even got H1N1"

Six months later. completely different story. You guys are not ahead of us on this, you're 6 months behind.

1 - its dude. Gee, only in english can Trantor sound like a girls username... imho, its sounds completely male. And if you knew that Trantor is an ecumenopolis world (world completely covered by city) from Isaac Asimov books, you would find it easier to guess I am a dude.

2 - I never said H1N1 disappeared or that it is not a pandemic. I said it disappeared from the news around here since we arrived at spring, end of flu season. I am well aware that now its NORTHERN HEMISPHERE flu season, and may/june next year it will start all over again here.

3 - it was simply an answer to however might think that there is something wrong with southern hemisphere health systems. My post tried to prove that its just a question of how cold it gets, since the poorer brazilian states, with worse healthcare were the ones less affected by the flu (they are also the warmest ones, they basically dont have a winter).

The time that H1N1 started spreading outside Mexico was the beginning of winter in the southern hemisphere, beginning of summer in the northern hemisphere.

[adam]

HAHA, tin foil hats! leave it up to the Spectator to sum up a scientific/medical issue with a 1950's analogy. Says a lot about their reader base I guess. Anyone able to find an H1N1 vaccine study that comparees scientific control and test groups for effectiveness? There are a lot of people who are skeptical about taking the shotand this skepticism can hardly be chalked up to a "conspiracy theory" of any kind. The fact is the past 2 years, the flu shot in Canada has completely missed the mark. Of course H1N1 hasn't been known to mutate, but the level of research Health Canada put into the vaccine is a joke. There is no scientific data anywhere about clinical trials available to the public. Why should we think the shots are any more effective than the last 2 years of the flu shot?

[BrianE]

Asked and Answered.

Preliminary results from H1N1 Vaccine. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090911133700.htm)

Since the H1N1 vaccine is identical to the regular seasonal influenza vaccine with the exeption of a different dead virus here are some links to clinical studies conducted on these vaccines.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00858468?term=influenza&rslt=With&rank=3&sect=X36015

More. (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00258830?term=influenza&rslt=With&rank=6&sect=X643015#outcome1)

More. (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00718120?term=influenza&rslt=With&rank=19&sect=X43015#othr)

I shouldn't have to do your research for you. Here's the site (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/home), this is just the US. I didn't even bother searching for any other country's vaccine trials.

Feel free to ignore these links, I realise that it's all very dry stuff it's not easy to read at all. But the results are all there, all the reactions that trial groups had, split into immunogenicity results, adverse events and serious adverse events. Nobody is hiding anything. Please please please inform yourself.

[BrianE]

1 - its dude. Gee, only in english can Trantor sound like a girls username... imho, its sounds completely male. And if you knew that Trantor is an ecumenopolis world (world completely covered by city) from Isaac Asimov books, you would find it easier to guess I am a dude.


Thank you for clarifying. You never can be sure, women can be fans of science fiction too.

And actualy I have read the Foundation series of books (Asimov is a true legend of Sci-Fi)and I did recogize Trantor... it never occured to me that anybody else might have read such an obscure set of books.

[Trantor]

come on... Asimov and Foundation are not obscure! :)

[emge]

Hey, another xx-chromosomed Asimov fan here... hasty generalizations much? It seems to me boards like this do attract more fans of sci-fi in general than the average population - cities, development, futurism, culture, possibilities...

I have absolutely nothing further to add on the vaccine debate, however. Carry on.

[SteelTown]

Four kids in ICU with H1N1
Hospitals, doctors' offices swamped with flu patients

October 30, 2009
Joanna Frketich
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/663360

Four kids with H1N1 are in intensive care at McMaster Children's Hospital.

That means flu is taking up half of the pediatric ICU beds in the city.

"We're definitely seeing a wave of healthy children who have been infected," said Dr. Cynthia Cupido, medical director of the pediatric ICU.

More than 50 per cent of public schools now have outbreaks. In total, 74 public and Catholic schools in Hamilton have been hit by H1N1.

Staggering numbers of students are staying home from school -- ranging from 7 to 20 per cent. About 300 teachers, or 10 per cent of school staff, aren't at work.

Cupido said McMaster's pediatric ICU is one of the harder hit in the province by H1N1.

"Our resources are stretched," she said.

Hamilton's adult intensive care units are feeling a similar strain, with the number of H1N1 patients doubling in one week to seven confirmed and one possible case.

"We're probably seeing at least double what we'd expect to see for this time of year in the ICU," said Dr. Peter Kraus, chief of critical care at Hamilton Health Sciences.

Wait times for flu shots continued to be hours long yesterday as Hamiltonians lined up for the only protection from H1N1 that public health can offer. Waits were about five hours at the clinic on the West Mountain, with 1,000 people in line. The Dundas clinic wasn't much better, with 700 waiting for a shot.

"I do appreciate that people are waiting a long time in line to get immunized and I'm asking everyone who is not in the priority groups to please be patient," said Health Minister Deb Matthews. "There will be enough vaccine in Ontario for everyone who wants and needs a vaccine. But we do need to make sure that those who need the vaccine the most, get it first."

However, Health Canada has informed provinces and territories it expects the supply of H1N1 vaccine being shipped across Canada to be lower next week because of a bottleneck in the production line.

Hamilton is expanding its flu shot clinics next week to four and opening two flu assessment clinics starting tomorrow for those who have influenza symptoms but can't get in to see their family doctors.

The clinics, which will not give out vaccinations, will be open from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m. on the weekend and 3 p.m. to 10 p.m. during the week at the West End Clinic at 690 Main St. W. and the St. Joseph's East End Ambulatory Care Centre at 2757 King St. E.

The province has put a self-assessment tool on its website at health.gov.on.ca to help people determine what they should do if they think they have the flu.

The assessment clinics and website are expected to take the pressure off overwhelmed doctors' offices and emergency rooms.

Dr. Richard Tytus, family physician and president of the Hamilton Academy of Medicine, said doctors' offices are getting four to five times more calls than usual.

"We're swamped," he said.

Emergency rooms have also felt the strain. Nearly 50 per cent of emergency room visits at Joseph Brant Memorial Hospital in Burlington on Wednesday were from people with flu symptoms. Both McMaster Children's Hospital and Joseph Brant have set up flu clinics outside of the emergency room to deal with the increased number of patients.

So far, Hamilton and Burlington hospitals have been able to cope with the influx. The children's hospital is prepared to open up four more intensive care unit beds, if needed, on top of its usual eight.

Hamilton has had eight children in intensive care since H1N1 emerged in April, with seven of those during the second wave that started this month.

The majority of them were previously healthy with no other medical conditions.

A number of them have had to be put on ventilators, including one right now. There have been no child deaths in Hamilton from H1N1, although there have been three in Ontario. Hamilton has had four adults with H1N1 die. The virus contributed to or caused three of those deaths.

[adam]

Asked and Answered.

Preliminary results from H1N1 Vaccine. (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090911133700.htm)

Since the H1N1 vaccine is identical to the regular seasonal influenza vaccine with the exeption of a different dead virus here are some links to clinical studies conducted on these vaccines.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00858468?term=influenza&rslt=With&rank=3&sect=X36015

More. (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00258830?term=influenza&rslt=With&rank=6&sect=X643015#outcome1)

More. (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT00718120?term=influenza&rslt=With&rank=19&sect=X43015#othr)

I shouldn't have to do your research for you. Here's the site (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/home), this is just the US. I didn't even bother searching for any other country's vaccine trials.

Feel free to ignore these links, I realise that it's all very dry stuff it's not easy to read at all. But the results are all there, all the reactions that trial groups had, split into immunogenicity results, adverse events and serious adverse events. Nobody is hiding anything. Please please please inform yourself.

One of your links was a study done on 60 people, and the other was a study with 46 people... is this an accurate sample of the population? Really?

[BrianE]

Like I said, there are more studies than the two that I listed. The first I listed was a trial with 350.

I know that you're not familiar with how research is conducted so I will point out that vast vast vast majority of clinical studies are conducted with trial sizes that are manageable. The trends start to become statistically significant and representative of the general population once the results from many many studies are combined in what's called a Meta Analysis. That is usually when the media gets a hold of the studies and reports on the results. Almost every news story that reports scientific findings is based on a meta anaysis that looks at the collective results of many clinical trials.

Anti vaccine groups have made a living off of cherry picking the studies that best fit their already skewed world view and reporting only on the negative results within those cherry picked studies. This is not real science. This is wrong on many different levels.

[markbarbera]

This Q&A was in today's Spec. It addresses a lot of the common questions being raised here and elsewhere:

Your questions on H1N1 answered by Dr. Chris Mackie, Hamilton's associate medical officer of health

October 30, 2009
The Hamilton Spectator
(Oct 30, 2009)
Q: If the need to give the vaccine is so high, why are there not more centres in better locations providing the shots? One location in Dundas for a city of 400,000-plus people is a bit ridiculous.

A: Great question. The main problem is supply of the vaccine. We are giving it out as fast as it comes in.

Q: Why are the lineups so long? We're asking people with babies and young children to get their kids vaccinated as well as older people who have health problems. And we expect them to wait for hours and hours in line. Is there not a better way to do this?

A: Anyone who is too sick or otherwise unable to wait in line can talk to the staff who are managing the line and they will take them to the front.

Q: I want to get the vaccine ASAP, however, I know there is no way my 18-month-old will tolerate being in a lineup for even an hour. Is there any indication of when we might see the lineups reduced or doctors giving these out so that my family can get the vaccine?

A: Some family docs have the vaccine -- we are hoping that most will by mid next week -- but some family docs are choosing not to vaccinate this year because the ministry has placed significant administrative controls in place that protect the vaccine supply, but make it difficult for family docs to administer it.

Q: My wife is pregnant, due Dec. 21. She also works at a hospital, and has been warned by various health professionals not to get the H1N1 shot. She has decided to get it, but wants the non-adjuvant vaccine. When will this be available? I should note one of the people who told her not to get the shot works in the infectious diseases department at her hospital.

A: I'm sorry to hear that your wife is getting mixed messages. The medical evidence shows that this vaccine is safe and effective, and that women in the second half of pregnancy should get the shot ASAP, adjuvanted or not. Unadjuvanted should be available as of Nov. 9 at the latest, hopefully sooner.

Q: My three-year-old son has symptoms of a cold (no vomiting or diarrhea). Can he still get the H1N1 flu shot?

A: Mild illness is not a problem, get the shot. Just make sure you tell the people at the clinic so that they can keep ill people away from healthy people.

Q: I am 42 and considered high risk as I have a form of lupus, but I am hesitating getting the vaccine because I am scared of the side-effects like GBS (Guillain Barre Syndrome). Why should I get it?

A: GBS is extremely rare. It happens in less than one in a million doses, and it's more common to get GBS as a reaction to the flu itself than the flu shot. This is a safe vaccine and you are at risk from the flu -- you should get the shot.

Q: The adjuvant AS03, as I understand, contains Squalene, Polysorbate 80, Tocopherol, mercury and other ingredients. Aren't there studies that show that there can be potential health issues relative to some or all of these additives?

A: These components have been used in many vaccines and found to be safe. Squalene is a normal metabolite found in everyone's blood at all times. Tocopherol is vitamin E. Polysorbate is in all kinds of things we consume, including ice cream. Thimerosal is a preservative to maintain vaccine sterility, and the mercury in it is bonded to an ethyl group (not a methyl group, like the mercury in fish), so your body excretes it right away and there are no health problems. All existing data points to the vaccine and adjuvant being safe.

Q: My entire family got the H1N1 shot Monday. The kids and I both had low-grade fevers and I also had shortness of breath. Could this be a side-effect of the vaccination?

A: This is unlikely to be related to the vaccine. The vaccine has no active virus in it (only very specific chopped up bits of virus) so it can't cause an infection.

Q: I have bronchitis. I am on anitibiotics until the end of the week. Should I get the vaccine still?

A: Antibiotics are not a problem - get the shot.

[realcity]

@ adam

Don't get the vaccine then. No one is forcing you.

Darwin's Law will win in the end.

[coalminecanary]

Anti vaccine groups have made a living off of cherry picking the studies that best fit their already skewed world view and reporting only on the negative results within those cherry picked studies. This is not real science. This is wrong on many different levels.

Made a living?

I have watched this debate with interest, but I have to say that anyone questioning the vaccine gets jumped on rabidly as if they are the leader or blind follower of an anti vaccine group. Most people who are questioning the necessity of the vaccine for themselves are simply trying to sort through all the BS and get to the underlying facts.

Some people just like to be armed with knowledge before blindly following the masses. Then they are attacked with statements such as:

I hope that everyone here also follows this link just so they can see the levels of dishonesty and down right criminal levels of mis-information being spread about by the anti vaccine movement.

Aaaaaannnd here we go. The last refuge of the anti vaccine kook.

It's not kooky to question matters of your own health. I'm sorry to pick on you Brian, but your posts are the most intense. I (as I'm sure we all do) appreciate the information you are posting. But you have to stop sounding "high and mighty" about it.

The bottom line is:
FACT: you might get the flu and it could have very bad results for you if you are one of the few unlucky ones. There could be greater effects on a societal level if there was no vaccine at all (pandemic, etc).

FACT: there are known bad effects of vaccines in general, which could be very bad if you are one of the few unlucky ones. There could be other unknown effects or long term effects that haven't been (or can't feasibly be) studied.

This isn't about taking sides. It's wrong to brush aside the known negatives of each choice. In the end it's a personal choice and it's absolutely not wrong to question which choice is best for you.

And while I'm rambling, I want to reply to:


'We can't trust any data that contradicts my insane position because a pharmaceutical company paid to do quality control and quality assurance on their own product'

or

Big pharma stands to make a profit on vaccines therefore any pro vaccine data that comes out must be made up or biased in some way.


If, in fact, the sellers of the vaccines are the primary producer of testing data then damn straight it's appropriate to question that data. Luckily, it appears as if independent testing has been done, but as with everything in life, it really does pay to follow the money. To NOT question such a thing is ludicrous. Where would we be if we blindly trusted the initial cigarette health testing performed by tobacco companies as well as initial results produced by independent people being heavily lobbied or subsidized by them?

If the tests are completely independent of any person, brand, company or other group who may stand to benefit from vaccine deployment, then pointing that out is rebuttal enough. If the tests are not truly independent then it's 100% correct to not trust them blindly.

In either case, the initial question is totally valid and not kooky.

[Zaz]

Brian, you did your best. It's time for nature to take its course... :koko:

[BrianE]

I agree with much of what you say coalmine in fact it's hard to disagree with the idea of taking charge of your own health. I just think that a growing number of people are making medical choices not based on science or evidence but more on their mistrust of government, medical authority, the corporation and on science itself. Or being Contrarian for contrarian's sake.

I am also not over exagerating when I say that there is a growing anti vaccine movement. And I'm also not out to lunch when I say that there are many people making a living off of the demonization of vaccines and the medical industry in general. I have yet to visit a site that could be classified as anti vaccine that wasn't trying to sell me some alternative or some book that would provide all the answers.

Please note this Australian site (http://avn.org.au/library/)that is ground zero for the movement. Their catchy slogan even says, investigate before you vaccinate. Yet all their information resources cherry pick the faults of vaccines and some entry's contain information that has been proven false. To their credit this site does include links to the manufacturers fact sheets.

These sites all put forward a reasonable face but when pressed on their actual opinions their propaganda gives them away. The former advertising slogan used by these groups "Love them, Protect them, NEVER inject them." presents some confusing conclusions.

Some sites are truly heart wrenching to read. Many of them are not opportunists and are mearly desperately trying to warn other parents of a perceieved danger. Unfortunately it's very obvious after only a few moments that many of these sites (at least to me) rely amost entirely on anecdotal evicence and badly mangled interpretations of science and chemistry.

In short I see many correlations between global warming denial (don't want to go off topic or anything) and anti vaccine claims. There is a constant baseline of easily debunked and recirculating claims against vaccines (and global warming) that are designed to shock and outrage the unimformed and keep the medical establishment occupied in providing lengthy and complicated answers.

To use adam's first post as an example: the implication of toxic levels of heavy metals in vaccines. It takes 5 seconds to put that fear out there and about 2 hours of research and writing to disprove it.

[realcity]

Small Pox -- gone
Measels/Rubella -- gone
Polio -- gone
Chicken Pox -- gone
Mumps -- gone
Tetanus -- gone
HPV -- gone
Meningitis -- gone
Hepatitis C -- gone

*so long as you get vaccinated

[hamtransithistory]

From Today's Hamilton Spec, pg A9

When her own 2-year-old son had H1N1 in September, Margaritis says she allowed the fever to run its course. She let it get up to 106 F “because I’m a naturopath and I know what I’m doing” before “breaking it” with belladonna, a perennial plant used in a homeopathic remedy for fever.


As I understand it, anything over 104 F is dangerous, especially in kids. 106 F without emergency medical help may get children's services involved

[BrianE]

*sigh*

Don't even get me started on Homeopathy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy)

Homeopathic remedies generally contain few or no pharmacologically active molecules,[21] and for such remedies to have pharmacological effect would violate fundamental principles of science.[12][22] Modern homeopaths have proposed that water has a memory that allows homeopathic preparations to work without any of the original substance; however, the physics of water are well understood, and no known mechanism permits such a memory.[22][23] The lack of convincing scientific evidence supporting homeopathy's efficacy[24] and its use of remedies lacking active ingredients have caused homeopathy to be described as pseudoscience or quackery.[25][26][27][28][29]

[FairHamilton]

Small Pox -- gone
Measels/Rubella -- gone
Polio -- gone
Chicken Pox -- gone
Mumps -- gone
Tetanus -- gone
HPV -- gone
Meningitis -- gone
Hepatitis C -- gone

*so long as you get vaccinated

There is no Hep C vaccine, please stop spreading inaccurate information.

[realcity]

There is no Hep C vaccine, please stop spreading inaccurate information.

Sorry .... Hep A...

[realcity]

There is no Hep C vaccine, please stop spreading inaccurate information.

@ Fair

BTW

did you ignore the other 8 diseases that I listed... that are almost non-existent in just the last 3 generations thanks to vaccines .... on purpose.... or to be a jerko... just to point out i mixed up Hep A and Hep C??

at you "please stop *spreading inaccurate information* being a douche bag"

*okay okay... i'll get the PMs for being rude... this forum used to be a lot more fun.... less serious... lets get back to drawing and talking about skyscrapers* peace-the-eff-out...

[Blurr]

Hahaha.

Reminds me of my university friend.

She would always say "please" before making a big douche statement.

Which I would respond "please stop being a douche".

good list - thanks.

[rousseau]

If water has a memory, then I wouldn't want to take any homeopathic remedy simply because, well, if I'm not all that interested in remembering every poop I ever took, why would I want to ingest a liquid that remembers every poop of every animal taken in its vicinity from time immemorial? And what if a murder or death happened in or near the water that eventually became a homeopathic remedy? Wouldn't that be bad karma?

Or, maybe there are rules about distances and intensities, and such?

Physicist Robert L. Park, former executive director of the American Physical Society, has noted that
“...since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30,000,000,000 times the size of the Earth.

Homeopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#High_dilutions)


I know my local homeopath has a pretty big container, though I'm not sure it's quite 30,000,000,000 times the size of the earth. I'll have to ask her!

[realcity]

eff off to the natural/homeopaths

[FairHamilton]

@ Fair

BTW

did you ignore the other 8 diseases that I listed... that are almost non-existent in just the last 3 generations thanks to vaccines .... on purpose.... or to be a jerko... just to point out i mixed up Hep A and Hep C??

at you "please stop *spreading inaccurate information* being a douche bag"

*okay okay... i'll get the PMs for being rude... this forum used to be a lot more fun.... less serious... lets get back to drawing and talking about skyscrapers* peace-the-eff-out...

I merely pointed out your post included inaccurate information, that if left uncorrected had the potential of leaving people with the false impression there was a Hep C vaccine?

I had no idea if you mixed it up with Hep A, or you really believed there to be a Hep C vaccine. How would I? You felt the need to insult me, sorry for you.

[adam]

Natural Protection from H1N1

There has been a lot of hype in recent years about the potential for a global viral pandemic. SARS, avian flu and West Nile virus are examples from the recent past that could have had far worse consequences than what actually occurred. Now it’s H1N1, the latest version of swine flu, that is the big concern.

Indeed, there is no doubt that sooner or later we may be facing a major epidemic similar to what occurred in 1918, or even worse. There are many environmental, social and economic factors that make such a possibility increasingly more likely with each passing year. However, there are solutions to this problem. Unfortunately, most of the approaches that have been adopted by mainstream medicine and governments around the world are only marginally effective and don’t address the root causes of the problem.

A number of factors have led to the development of new strains of viruses. There is evidence that the overuse of some pharmaceutical drugs encourages the mutation of viruses. Increased global travel is an obvious avenue for microbes to spread into regions where they formerly did not exist. Global warming has resulted in milder winters in temperate regions. Colder winter temperatures tend to decrease the spread of infectious diseases, warmer winters less so.

Habitat destruction can create conditions which increase the likelihood that viruses jump from other species to humans. This can result from exposure of human populations to viruses that were formerly limited to remote regions. Viruses are also more likely to mutate and jump from one species to another when populations of their traditional host species are in decline, another result of habitat destruction.

Food markets in countries where there is a common practice of eating wild animals, such as in many parts of Africa and Asia, are areas where new strains of viruses often emerge. In these environments there are many species of animals that wouldn’t normally come in contact with each other. The animals are caged in unhealthy and stressful conditions in close proximity to each other and other domestic species. Stressed animals are less likely to be able to resist infection when they are exposed to novel pathogens, making it easier for a virus to infect a new species. Any viruses that are able to survive in these immune compromised animals will rapidly mutate to become better adapted to infecting the new species.

Of course the most common animals in these markets are humans, many of whom may also be immune compromised from living in unhealthy or unsanitary conditions. They can easily become suitable hosts for pathogens to develop the capacity to infect humans.

The normal approach to treating these kinds of health concerns has been through the use of drugs, vaccines, and attempting to destroy intermediate host populations, such as mosquitoes. None of these approaches are very effective. There are few effective antiviral drugs and those that are available tend to be very expensive and associated with significant toxicity and side-effects. The more they are used, the more rapidly viruses develop a resistance to them, while new drugs takes years to develop and are very expensive. In addition, viral infections are often treated with antibiotics. Not only are antibiotics ineffective against viral infections, the misuse of these drugs promotes the development of antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, organisms that traditionally are controlled by these drugs.

In my opinion, vaccination programs such as influenza shots are generally a waste of money. Most of these viruses mutate so fast that new strains can evolve within a couple of months, yet vaccines take many months to develop and produce. Usually by the time the vaccine is available, the virus has already mutated. Public health professionals tend to promote fear among the general population as a means of advocating their programs. They often portray the risks as being many times greater than they really are. This approach is counter-productive since fear is one of the most powerful immune suppressors. A fearful population will be more susceptible to illness.

In reality, the majority of people who are exposed to these viruses will not get sick. Most of those who do will only experience mild to moderate ‘flu-like symptoms. Only an extremely small minority of the population is likely to develop serious complications. Rather than handing over billions of dollars to pharmaceutical companies to pay for ‘flu shots, it makes more sense to identify the high risk populations and address the reasons why they are at risk.

Factors That Weaken the Immune System

The main reason for the variability in response to infection among the general population has to do with immune function. Individuals most likely to develop more severe symptoms are those with undeveloped or compromised immune function such as infants, seniors and the chronically ill. People who live in poverty are also at risk because they tend to be malnourished.

If we focus on identifying and remedying those factors that lead to compromised immune function, we can put together an action plan that will lead to an increased resistance to these viruses, both in the general population and in higher risk groups. There are also many herbs and other natural health products that, if used correctly, can help to optimize immune function.

The major factors that lead to compromised immune function primarily result from poor lifestyle choices and the kinds of environmental and psychological stress factors that are common in our society. Some of these include:

Poor diet – especially if it over-emphasizes heavily processed, chemically laden foods and insufficient consumption of fresh fruits and vegetables.

Exposure to chemical pollutants in the environment, workplace and home, such as heavy metals, chemical solvents, air pollution, agricultural chemicals and household cleaning products.

Regular use of social and pharmaceutical drugs – which include caffeine, cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana and all hard drugs, and pharmaceuticals.

Lack of exercise. Most people should get at least one hour of mild to moderate exercise per day (such as walking) and a minimum 20 to 30 minutes of aerobic workout three times per week.

Insufficient sleep. Most adults require eight to nine hours per day, teenagers and children need more.

Too much stress. Exercise and sleep can help reduce stress, but most people in our society are so overstressed that some kind of stress management program is necessary. Disciplines such as tai chi, yoga or meditation are helpful, as is spending time in nature. We also need to stop buying into the mindset that we have to be accessible 24/7. People in our society need to learn how to create boundaries and allow themselves some quality time to nurture themselves.

Negative emotions. These days anger, fear, frustration, envy and hatred are more common than happiness, contentment, compassion and love.

Vaccinations. This is a very controversial subject. Although childhood vaccinations may provide some protection from the viruses they are intended to treat, many are not as effective as the medical establishment would have us believe, and there is growing evidence that vaccinations may lead to depleted immune function. This can increase the likelihood of infection from other illnesses or the development of chronic and autoimmune conditions later in life. Part of the problem is that the immune system of infants and young children isn’t developed enough to handle large amounts of viral antigen or the many chemicals included in vaccines injected directly into their blood. In my opinion, most vaccinations are unnecessary, however there are a few for which there may be a stronger case. Ultimately this is a personal choice. It is important to carefully weigh the pros and cons before making a decision. Let the facts guide your decision, not the hysteria that is propagated by extreme factions on either side of the argument.

One thing I do recommend, however, is that for those who do decide to vaccinate, put it off until your children are four or five years old. By that time their immune system will have developed a bit more. I also recommend utilizing immune enhancing protocols for some time prior to and after vaccinations.

Immune Strengthening Herbs and Nutrients

Now let’s look at some of the protocols you can use to boost your immune response and increase your resistance to viral and other infectious diseases. The first thing to consider is that herbs and other natural health products are valuable health-promoting aids, but they are no substitute for a healthy diet and lifestyle. If we don’t practice preventive medicine, and instead wait until the symptoms of illness have arrived, then the impact of these supplements will be limited and eventually they will become less effective.

There are many essential nutrients that are directly or indirectly important for proper immune function. B vitamins are especially important for helping us deal with stress. For maximum effectiveness they should be taken alongside a good mineral supplement. In the mineral department, of particular importance for the immune system are calcium, magnesium and zinc. Antioxidants are also very useful. They include vitamins A, C, D, E and the minerals selenium and manganese. There are also many other important antioxidant nutrients that support immune functioning. These include the carotenes, flavonoids and other polyphenols such as those found in green tea, grape seed, pine bark and various berry extracts. The best food sources of immune-enhancing nutrients are fresh fruits, vegetables, and mushrooms. There are also many herbs that can be helpful as well.

Immune stimulant herbs can boost immune functioning in the short term. They may also be used to treat infections in progress. Some of the most versatile immune stimulants include the various species of purple coneflower root and herb (Echinacea spp.), plantain herb (Plantago spp.), elecampane root (Inula helenium), pot marigold flowers (Calendula officinalis), boneset herb (Eupatorium perfoliatum), black elder flower (Sambucus nigra), stinging nettle herb (Urtica dioica) and goldenrod herb (Solidago spp.). To support immune function, combine three or four of these herbs and take them three to four times per day for one to two week intervals. For best results, this should be repeated once or twice, each time after a one to two week break. This protocol can be used to help boost your immune response, which can prevent illness or lessen the severity if you do get sick.

Virus-Fighting Herbs

There are many herbs that attack viruses directly, which can be used together with immune stimulants by anyone who contracts the ‘flu or some other viral infection. Some of the immune stimulants mentioned above are also antiviral, including purple coneflower, pot marigold and black elder. Other important antiviral herbs include yarrow herb (Achillea millefolium), hyssop herb (Hyssopus officinalis), lemon balm herb (Melissa officinalis), St. Johnswort (Hypericum perforatum) marjoram herb (Origanum majorana), oregano herb (Origanum vulgare), heal-all herb (Prunella vulgaris), rosemary herb (Rosmarinus officinalis) and blue vervain herb (Verbena hastata).

If you think you might have influenza, combine two to three herbs from among the immune stimulants with two to three herbs from the antivirals. It is important to begin taking the herbs as soon as you think you are getting sick. Take your formulation four to six times per day until you are better.

Deep Acting Immune Tonics

Another group of herbs that help to improve and optimize immune function are the immune tonics. These herbs are deeper acting than immune stimulants, but take longer to work. They include North American ginseng root (Panax quinquefolius), lacquered polypore or reishi mushroom (Ganoderma lucidum), artist’s conk (Ganoderma applanatum), Chinese milkvetch root (Astragalus membranaceus) and Siberian ginseng root (Eleutherococcus senticosus). Combine two or three immune tonics and take them three to four times per day for two to three months. Immune tonics are not suitable for treating infections in progress. They are used for preventive purposes or to optimize immune function and work best after first doing several cycles of immune stimulants.

Dosages and Recommendations

Vitamin and nutritional supplements should be taken with meals, whereas herbs should always be taken on an empty stomach, preferably 10 to 15 minutes before meals and 20 to 30 minutes before bed. Herbs are best taken in tincture form, especially tinctures made from fresh plants. However, some of these herbs are also fairly effective when taken as a tea.

The dosage of tinctures depends on their strength. Follow the directions of whatever products you are using. If you are combining single tinctures, the dosage of your whole formulation will be similar or slightly higher than the recommended dosage of your individual herb tinctures (i.e. if the recommended dosage for the individual tinctures is 25 drops, the dosage of your entire formulation should be about 25 to 30 drops, not 25 drops of each tincture). If you are making a tea, use two to three teaspoons of your combination of herbs (not each individual herb) for each cup of tea and steep it in a covered container for 10 to 15 minutes.

A Better Strategy for Public Health

If our health care system were to stop the fear mongering and invest a similar amount of money for proper health education and other appropriate preventive social and environmental measures, instead of what is wasted every year financing vaccinations for the ‘flu, the result would be a significant decrease in the impact of influenza and other viral infections, and improvement in the overall health of all sectors of our population. This would lead to significant savings in health care costs and the quality of health care in Canada would increase with a net reduction in costs. When it comes to health care, it’s time that governments look at the big picture, instead of spending money on expensive band-aids while sweeping the real issues under the carpet.

Fortunately, to a large degree we have the ability to educate ourselves and take our health into our own hands, instead of waiting for someone else to solve our problems for us. It requires an acceptance of our personal responsibility to ourselves, our families and our environment. We are fortunate to live in a country where we have the freedom to make these choices and the resources to implement them. Use them wisely!


Michael Vertolli is a traditional clinical herbalist practising in Vaughan (just north of Toronto). He is the Director of Living Earth School of Herbalism which offers introductory classes, certificate and diploma programs.

[emge]

all i'm seeing here is black and white, black and white.

No vaccine is perfect and there's a few things in homeopathy that aren't total crap.

[BrianE]

A very long article with some good general health advice but some very poor advice on vaccination IMO. I think I can sum it up in a couple of sentences.

Eating right, sleeping adequately and keeping stress to a minimum will result in a healthy immune system.

Vaccines are unreliable, ineffective and possibly dangerous to you. Don't vaccinate your children, instead buy herbs, herbal medicines and herbal remedy's that you must take daily for the rest or your life. Oh, by they way, I just happen to sell and promote herbal medicines... funny how that works.

Take control of your own health and educate yourself, don't trust anyone else to have your best interests at heart.

So, trust me, herbal medicine will take care of you, just don't ask for any references to any scientific studies to support the many many many claims I just made in this article. Since herbal medicine is classified as a 'Nutritional Supplement' it does not have to undergo any testing to quantify it's safety and effectivness or reactions with other herbs or medications.

Like I said, I have yet to see an article that was negative on vaccines that wasn't also trying to promote or sell some alternative.

[highwater]

Also, this:

Negative emotions. These days anger, fear, frustration, envy and hatred are more common than happiness, contentment, compassion and love.

is dangerous, mean-spirited nonsense.

[adam]

There are many things people can do to help stay healthy this flu season. Highwater, I like your good-natured post.

[eternallyme]

The only thing that could have been done differently is to give a different supplier the contract to produce the unadjuvenated vaccine, but that would only result in enough vaccine to cover another 6% of the population this week.

[SteelTown]

Four more local H1N1 deaths

November 05, 2009
Naomi Powell
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/666952

Four more people with H1N1 influenza have died in Hamilton and Halton, as new data shows the virus is causing unprecedented levels of illness in the area.

Three women, all in their 50s and all with underlying illnesses, died in Hamilton hospitals during the past week.

Another woman in her 70s, who also had a chronic illness, became the first person in Halton Region to die of the flu.

Four people with swine flu had previously died in Hamilton.

Meanwhile, new lab data show flu illness in the area, already double the level of any previous flu season on record, has continued to rise.

The proportion of positive H1N1 tests in the area -- considered a key measure for evaluating flu activity -- rose to 48 per cent last week, up from 38 per cent a week earlier.

In an average flu season, the percentage of positive flu tests reaches 20 to 25 per cent.

"Other health units in the province are seeing a decrease in numbers so it would be surprising if we got much higher than this," said Dr. Chris Mackie, Hamilton's associate medical officer of health. "So we're either at the peak or we're close."

Health Minister Deb Matthews has warned that Ontario will run out of the regular swine flu vaccine by the end of the week -- forcing many immunization clinics to close and preventing priority groups from receiving the flu shot.

While the wait for more vaccine continues, the province will use a small cache of 189,000 doses to backstop public health units.

Yesterday, the federal government said it expects to deliver 1.8 million doses of the swine flu vaccine across the country next week. That includes one million doses of the regular vaccine and 800,000 doses of an adjuvant-free vaccine intended for pregnant women. It is not known how much of that will come to Ontario.

As of yesterday, Halton had 29,000 doses of the H1N1 shot, enough to keep its clinics open to high-priority groups until Saturday.

Hamilton had about 22,000 doses of the vaccine at the beginning of the day yesterday, and expects another shipment of 10,000 doses by the end of the week.

The city likely won't have to shut clinics down, though it will keep them restricted to high-priority groups for a little longer.

"We'd really like to go to the general public as soon as possible and it will just be a matter of when we get the doses to do that," Mackie said.

Both Halton and Hamilton have received shipments of unadjuvanted vaccine for pregnant women.

Hamilton will make its unadjuvanted doses available at its community clinics tomorrow. Women in Halton will get the doses through family doctors, said Dr. Bob Nosal, Halton's medical officer of health.

The number of H1N1 deaths in Ontario has climbed to 37, including an infant from London, Dr. Arlene King, Ontario's chief medical officer of health, said yesterday. That's up from 34 on Tuesday.

More people are also coming to the ER with flu-like symptoms.

Halton Region's first H1N1 death should serve as a reminder to older residents to receive their flu shot when it becomes available, Nosal said. Though older people are less likely to become infected with H1N1 than younger age groups, their chances of dying from the virus are higher, he said.

[emge]

I got my vaccine since there was no wait at the Jackson Square H1N1 clinic today - part of that is that I was asked by three different people if I fell into one of the priority categories before getting the shot, so I think they're being more stringent on it now.

[SteelTown]

Flu shot clinics open to all
Expect to wait half-hour or more

November 17, 2009
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/674190

H1N1 vaccination clinics in Hamilton, Haldimand-Norfolk and Niagara are now serving the general public.

They were previously providing vaccinations only to high-risk groups.

Halton clinics are closed today pending arrival of more vaccine. The region will today determine further clinic schedules and whether it will now vaccinate the rest of the public. An update will be posted at halton.ca.

Hamilton opened its clinics to the general public mid-afternoon yesterday.

"The supply and demand are starting to match each other, so we now have sufficient vaccine on hand and we're not seeing an enormous demand that outstrips our resources," said Dr. Chris Mackie, one of Hamilton's associate medical officers of health.

Residents should be prepared to spend at least a half-hour inside the clinic and there could be longer lineups. People unable to stand in line for medical reasons should speak with a staff member when they arrive at the clinic.

Hamilton and area H1N1 flu shot clinics

Anyone can get the vaccination.

* Jackson Square, beside the passport office, 1-7 p.m., Nov. 16 to 20.

* St. Helen Catholic Elementary School, 785 Britannia Ave., 1-7 p.m., Nov. 16, 17, 18 and 20.

* Chedoke Twin Pads, 91 Chedmac Dr., 1-7 p.m., Nov. 16-20.

* Dundas Baptist Church, 201 Governor's Rd., 1-7 p.m. Nov. 16, 17, 19, 20.

* Valley Park Arena, 970 Paramount Dr., Stoney Creek, Nov. 20, 1-7 p.m.

For information, call 905-546-4161 or go to hamilton.ca/H1N1

Halton

Clinics closed today. Information on clinics for the rest of the week, call 311 or 905-825-6000 or go to the web at halton.ca.

Haldimand and Norfolk

Anyone can get the vaccination.

* Kinsmen Hall, 15 Thorburn St., Cayuga, 3-7 p.m., Nov. 17 to 19.

* Simcoe Town Centre, 150 West St., Simcoe, 3-7 p.m., Nov. 17 to 19.

Niagara

Anyone can get the vaccination.

* Niagara Region headquarters, 2201 St. David's Road, Thorold, 9-4 p.m., Nov. 16, 18, 20 and 21. 1-7 p.m. on Nov. 17 and 19.