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  #1081  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 12:47 AM
nname nname is offline
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Originally Posted by JakeLRS View Post
The AC bus numbers will count towards pax, which I think is pathetic. But even with that, I think it’ll be shy of 400k.
Find it funny that now the fastest and cheapest way to "fly" YVR-YHM is using the AC bus service rather than connecting at YYC. That is, assuming AC2501 is actually on-time
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  #1082  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 2:57 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeLRS View Post
The AC bus numbers will count towards pax, which I think is pathetic. But even with that, I think it’ll be shy of 400k.

In 2015, YHM just broke 300k.
In that year, they had:
2x Daily YYC (Year-Round)
1x Daily YEG (Summer)
1x Daily YQM (Summer)
1x Daily YHZ (Summer)
Plus a bunch of single weekly flights to Cuba and Mexico.

This year
1x Daily YYC (Summer) / 5x Weekly (Rest of year)
1x Daily KEF (Summer) / 5x Weekly (Rest of year)
1x Daily YHZ (Summer)
5x Weekly YSJ (Summer)
2x Weekly MCO (Year-Round)
Plus whatever winter flights there are to Cuba and Mexico. Oh and that AC bus service that counts towards pax.
So if bus numbers count, does that mean departing AC bus pax pay the YHM & YKF AIFs?
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  #1083  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 3:10 AM
nname nname is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
So if bus numbers count, does that mean departing AC bus pax pay the YHM & YKF AIFs?
No AIF for bus

Here is the breakdown of dummy booking for YHM-YKF with AC:

Air transportation charges
Departing flight - Adult $520.00
Carrier surcharges - Canada $60.00
Taxes, fees and charges
Harmonized Sales Tax - Canada $75.40
Grand total - Canadian dollars $655.40
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  #1084  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 3:36 AM
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ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Unfortunately it's the airport that can never seem to catch a break. They could sure use PD to YOW to bring some-much needed frequency and stability.
It's frustrating. But such is the way things go when you're not far away from the biggest city and airport in the country -- have to take the bad with the good, I suppose. It has been a common story for this town though.

Personally I don't think YHM will begin to grow passenger numbers in a big way until Pearson can no longer do so, or there is some major change in the air travel market. Flights to Ottawa and Montreal seem like no-brainers, but those rugs have been pulled out from under Hamilton's feet before too. The operator was smart to make freight its core business.
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  #1085  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 4:18 AM
Justanothermember Justanothermember is online now
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
It's frustrating. But such is the way things go when you're not far away from the biggest city and airport in the country -- have to take the bad with the good, I suppose. It has been a common story for this town though.

Personally I don't think YHM will begin to grow passenger numbers in a big way until Pearson can no longer do so, or there is some major change in the air travel market. Flights to Ottawa and Montreal seem like no-brainers, but those rugs have been pulled out from under Hamilton's feet before too. The operator was smart to make freight its core business.
Porter is re-emerging as a Canadian and to a degree North American carrier though (no longer just Eastern Canada regional), so I do think it's a matter of time before Hamilton gets a PD flight to Ottawa and maybe Montreal.
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  #1086  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 7:36 AM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Weren't we talking about some destinations in Europe being as busy in the winter season (or at least parts of it) as the summer?...

Latest AC updates based on aeroroutes:

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240509-acnw24inc

Quote:
Montreal – Barcelona 27OCT24 – 01DEC24 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly, A330-300
Montreal – Delhi eff 27OCT24 Increase from 4 weekly (5 from 03DEC24) to 7 weekly, 787-9
Montreal – Rome Fiumicino 27OCT24 – 29NOV24 450-seater 777-300ER replaces 400-seater, 3 weekly (Planned A330-300 from 01DEC24 unchanged)
Montreal – Sao Paulo Guarulhos eff 06DEC24 450-seater 777-300ER replaces 787-9, 5 weekly
Toronto – Copenhagen Previously not reported, service increases from 3 to 4 weekly during following periods with 787-9: 16DEC24 – 11JAN25, eff 03MAR25
Toronto – Rome Fiumicino 28OCT24 – 30NOV24 450-seater 777-300ER replaces 400-seater, 4 weekly (Planned A330-300 from 02DEC24 unchanged)
YUL-DEL and GRU getting quite a bump in frequency/seats as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRT_BMT_IND View Post
This summer (until October) some *A flights from YYZ will be using the infield terminal with busing from T1 in the late afternoon/early evening peak. The airlines affected are TAP, Avianca, Turkish, SAS, and LOT, which are all *A but AFAIK do not have a revenue sharing agreement with Air Canada like Lufthansa has. This might be the first time the IFT has been used for T1 overflow (at least for reasons not due to construction) since Pier F opened in 2007. Really it shows how overcrowded T1 is getting, the GTAA needs to get moving on whatever expansion plans they've shelved since COVID.
SAS leaves Star Alliance on September 1, 2024 as well.

Let's see if YYZ passes their 2019 passenger stats this year. They should come close, one would think. Speaking of YYZ, ACI released their list of the world's busiest airports a few weeks ago. YYZ came in at 40th. They used to be 32nd in 2019, and much higher in years prior. By the looks of it, they will quickly keep sliding down that list in the coming years, as several airports in China with triple digit growth are right behind them.

Top 60 list, (provided by PANYNJ, but sourced from ACI), Page 32.

https://www.panynj.gov/content/dam/a...r/ATR_2023.pdf

Anyway, no matter what YYZ does, Canada will slide down the list of the top 20 most traveled markets in the coming years.

https://aci.aero/2024/02/14/top-20-m...ci-world-data/

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeLRS View Post
The AC bus numbers will count towards pax, which I think is pathetic.
It sounds weird, but I think it's the right thing to do.

Last edited by thenoflyzone; May 10, 2024 at 7:55 AM.
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  #1087  
Old Posted May 10, 2024, 8:25 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Let's see if YYZ passes their 2019 passenger stats this year. They should come close, one would think. Speaking of YYZ, ACI released their list of the world's busiest airports a few weeks ago. YYZ came in at 40th. They used to be 32nd in 2019, and much higher in years prior. By the looks of it, they will quickly keep sliding down that list in the coming years, as several airports in China with triple digit growth are right behind them.
YYZ in Q1 of 2024 was at 92% of 2019's traffic:

GTAA's Q1 results for YYZ: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...809733880.html

Passenger activity increased by 0.9 million, or 8.7 per cent, from 10.0 million to 10.9 million in the first quarter of 2024, when compared to the same period of 2023, due to strong travel demand. During the first quarter of 2024, passenger activity recovered to 92.3 per cent compared to the first quarter of 2019 passenger activity.

Sector (millions) / 2024 / 2023 / Change # & %
Domestic / 3.5 / 3.4 / +0.1M, +2.6%
International / 7.4 / 6.6 / +0.8M, +11.8%
Total / 10.9 / 10.0 / +0.9M, +8.7%
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  #1088  
Old Posted May 11, 2024, 1:59 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Pascan are adding a ZBF-YSJ-YHZ route and a YSJ-YHZ route operating X67.

I assume the routing will be ZBF-YSJ-YHZ-YSJ-YHZ-YSJ-ZBF.

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/sain...l-air-service/

I wonder if pax will be able to interline with PD at YHZ?

I hadn’t realized how much Pascan had shrunk in Quebec. They’ve abandoned the north shore and also appear to have discontinued YWK.

I guess trying to compete with Air Liaison and PAL was too much capacity.
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  #1089  
Old Posted May 11, 2024, 3:20 PM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is online now
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WS filed the following winter long haul changes this weekend:

YYC-NRT - Extended to year-round, 3x weekly.
YYC-CDG - Increased from 4x weekly to daily.
YYC-ICN - Seasonal resumption moved up to Apr. 2.
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  #1090  
Old Posted May 12, 2024, 12:22 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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AC a couple of days ago pulled 763 FIN 640 out of the desert. Rumour has it that it and FIN 641 will be brought back into pax service. 640 is currently at KF in YHM.
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  #1091  
Old Posted May 12, 2024, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
AC a couple of days ago pulled 763 FIN 640 out of the desert. Rumour has it that it and FIN 641 will be brought back into pax service. 640 is currently at KF in YHM.
How much conditioning and refurbishment would be necessary to make these planes flight worthy again???
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  #1092  
Old Posted May 12, 2024, 2:39 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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I tackled Westjet's winter schedule from its "secondary bases", same as I did for Summer 2024 a couple months back. Same as then, I have not summoned the strength to tackle YYC, I need a good head space and lots of time lol! And besides, it is so far ahead of the secondary airports, it's barely worth the comparison lol! But I will tackle it sometime, soon hopefully:

# of weekly flights (WS mainline, Encore, and Link. Does not include codeshares)
YVR - 437
YYZ - 339
YEG - 295
YWG - 138
YHZ - 23 (I am only including YHZ because in summer, it does function as a bit of a focus city with the European flights, so wanted to include it for comparative purposes)

# of weekly seats (WS mainline, Encore, and Link. Does not include codeshares. Estimate only)
YVR - 58,008
YYZ - 54,348
YEG - 38,563
YWG - 19,685
YHZ - 3,610

# of destinations (WS mainline, Encore, and Link. Does not include codeshares)
YYZ - 38
YVR - 31
YEG - 29
YWG - 19
YHZ - 5

For comparison, here is July 2024:

# of weekly flights (WS mainline, Encore, and Link. Does not include codeshares)
YVR - 476
YEG - 359
YYZ - 311
YWG - 166
YHZ - 64

# of weekly seats (WS mainline, Encore, and Link. Does not include codeshares. Estimate only)
YVR - 61,010
YYZ - 48,812
YEG - 45,134
YWG - 23,685
YHZ - 10,045

# of destinations (WS mainline, Encore, and Link. Does not include codeshares)
YVR - 32
YYZ - 29
YEG - 29
YWG - 14
YHZ - 5

A couple takeaways. YYZ has become a winter stronghold ever since WS chopped the domestic, transborder, and trans Atlantic flights, which disproportionally affected summer schedules. They are the only airport to increase in every metric from summer season to winter season, definitely not the norm for airlines and especially for YYZ. But that's what happens when WS still serves a zillion Caribbean/sun destinations, despite cutting YYZ's other routes and frequency.

Because of this situation, YYZ and YEG essentially flip flop in importance from summer to winter. YEG loses a lot of flight frequencies and overall seats in winter, while YYZ gains. So they go back and forth between #3/4 rank across all metrics. YYZ increases from 29 summer destinations to 38 in winter. YEG holds its destination count year round, 29 for both seasons. But frequency and overall seats decline.

YVR is pretty consistent across the year, compared to YYZ and YEG. 476 flights in summer, 472 in winter. 32 destinations in summer, 32 in winter. But there is a decline in seats overall, from 61,000 to 59,000 approx. Still a clear 2nd place in front of both YEG and YYZ. I don't have exact comparable data from last year, but I believe WS has increased many of the sun destinations (transborder and international). Both HNL and OGG back to double daily, 10x weekly for PSP, 16x weekly for CUN and 15x weekly to PVR (I can guarantee it wasn't this high last year for either destination). Same as I mentioned in the summer update post a while ago, WS and AC seem to be in a healthy equilibrium at YVR, especially as AC expanded its network rapidly including sun destinations in the US and Mexico. In YYC and YYZ especially, one airline triumphed and one retreated more or less, demonstrating the power of a global hub, a competitor's acceptance of inferiority, and ultimately a dismantling of airline presence (routes and seats). AC won at YYZ, and WS at YYC, hands down. But YVR isn't the main hub for either airline, so they seem at a healthy equilibrium where both are growing without edging out the other. It's a good situation I think, overall. While we might not get the shiny new route handouts, we get some and then strengthening of the rest. Less manic than a giant buildup and then eventual crash.

Last edited by zahav; May 16, 2024 at 9:38 PM. Reason: Edited for Link switching to Encore
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  #1093  
Old Posted May 12, 2024, 6:02 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
AC a couple of days ago pulled 763 FIN 640 out of the desert. Rumour has it that it and FIN 641 will be brought back into pax service. 640 is currently at KF in YHM.
It's a smart move.

OS, UA and DL are all still operating passenger B763s. Why wouldn't AC, especially with current aircraft shortages/groundings, and especially now that those 2 frames are no longer needed over at AC Cargo.

They have a trained pilot pool for it as well.

AC should base them both in YOW and re-open YOW-LHR/FRA. Wouldn't that be something ! With the original flight numbers to boot !

Last edited by thenoflyzone; May 12, 2024 at 6:23 PM.
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  #1094  
Old Posted May 12, 2024, 6:31 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
It's a smart move.

OS, UA and DL are all still operating passenger B763s. Why wouldn't AC, especially with current aircraft shortages/groundings, and especially now that those 2 frames are no longer needed over at AC Cargo.

They have a trained pilot pool for it as well.

AC should base them both in YOW and re-open YOW-LHR/FRA. Wouldn't that be something ! With the original flight numbers to boot !
As sensible as that sounds, I bet these will be used exclusively out of YYZ to SFO & LAX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
How much conditioning and refurbishment would be necessary to make these planes flight worthy again???
Probably not much considering 640 already ferried to YHM.
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  #1095  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 3:38 PM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is online now
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https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...vity-through-e

WS formally announced its winter 787 schedule. Already posted about year-round NRT, and daily CDG but this also mentions double daily 787 service on YYC-CUN. HNL also back on the 787 well OGG remains a 7M8.

Also FCO resumes at 5x weekly instead of previously planned 2x.

Seems no YVR 787 service planned. Last winter they served YVR-CUN/PVR.
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  #1096  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 5:49 PM
nname nname is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
AC a couple of days ago pulled 763 FIN 640 out of the desert. Rumour has it that it and FIN 641 will be brought back into pax service. 640 is currently at KF in YHM.
Maybe they figured it's cheaper to operate their own 763 rather than wet lease an Omni 763...
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  #1097  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 6:10 PM
zahav zahav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodcory View Post
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...vity-through-e

WS formally announced its winter 787 schedule. Already posted about year-round NRT, and daily CDG but this also mentions double daily 787 service on YYC-CUN. HNL also back on the 787 well OGG remains a 7M8.

Also FCO resumes at 5x weekly instead of previously planned 2x.

Seems no YVR 787 service planned. Last winter they served YVR-CUN/PVR.
That's right, I think adding YVR to the 787 rotation was unnecessary from a route utilization perspective, keeping it to just two cities makes more sense. And of course prioritizing overseas routes is the smartest thing (ie. NRT, CDG, LHR), as these routes need the 787, while the YVR routes could easily be done on 737. And as I noted in my post from yesterday, WS upped the frequency on YVR to HNL, OGG, CUN, and PVR (CUN and PVR are 16x weekly and 15x weekly, respectively) so this makes sense with a full 737 schedule instead of a 787 in the mix. WS still has 1x weekly 737 from YYC-HNL, in addition to the 3x 787.

I've edited my original post to reflect 7x weekly 787 from YYZ.
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  #1098  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywoodcory View Post
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...vity-through-e

WS formally announced its winter 787 schedule. Already posted about year-round NRT, and daily CDG but this also mentions double daily 787 service on YYC-CUN. HNL also back on the 787 well OGG remains a 7M8.

Also FCO resumes at 5x weekly instead of previously planned 2x.

Seems no YVR 787 service planned. Last winter they served YVR-CUN/PVR.
Just adding this related article from The Calgary Herald for those interested:

WestJet announces more Calgary flights to Tokyo and vacation spots starting late 2024
http://https://apple.news/AgUWNUaovS2ezD_G5Pqi-aQ
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  #1099  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 7:46 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
AC a couple of days ago pulled 763 FIN 640 out of the desert. Rumour has it that it and FIN 641 will be brought back into pax service. 640 is currently at KF in YHM.
Give me a 763 over a 737Max any day!
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  #1100  
Old Posted May 14, 2024, 1:07 AM
samuelx88 samuelx88 is offline
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Air Transat will increase YQB-CDG to 3X weekly this winter. AF is still seasonal on this route.
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