Everything Bicycles | Winnipeg

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

More irony that Wolseley has the highest bike use by residents of anywhere in the city and even without dedicated bike lanes, guess people living there were smart and reasonable enough to bike on the existing roadways, who would have thought eh!?!

Or you could say, wow a lot of people have decided to ride a bike on the road. Maybe we should make the conditions safer for them to do it. When roads get busy with cars we make them bigger and safer. When there’s a lot of pedestrians, we build wide sidewalks. Where there is demand for cycling we should do the same.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

And yet 99.9% of the population and only .01% use dedicated bike lanes, maybe tax dollars should be allocated based on those percentages, right now the bike lobby has the city spending way more than necessary based on the minuscule % who cycle commute!

I ride a lot and have no trouble navigating the current roadways, buddy cycled to work for 30 years downtown and said it was lunacy with what they are doing now hacking bike lanes into narrow roadways! The cycle lanes have all but killed the exchange but let’s pretend they haven’t and carry on!

Again. Where exactly are all these bike lanes that you are complaining about? Where is this money you claim the ‘bike lobby’ has convinced the government to spend? Have you ever looked at the city budget? Where are all these roads that have been chopped up? Please name them I’d like to ride on them.

With 2% of the city riding a bike to work I would be ecstatic if we spent 2% of our road budget on cycling infrastructure. That doesn’t count the people who just ride a bike but don’t commute - about 40% of the population, including every kid.

Imagine if mature neighbourhoods matched the amount of road spending for cycling infrastructure with their percentage of cyclists. Those areas would look like Copenhagen.

The 2 block long bike lane in the Exchange has no effect on business.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Or you could say, wow a lot of people have decided to ride a bike on the road. Maybe we should make the conditions safer for them to do it. When roads get busy with cars we make them bigger and safer. When there’s a lot of pedestrians, we build wide sidewalks. Where there is demand for cycling we should do the same.

Would also like to examine the demographic of those who do cycle commute, seems to be to be a pretty exclusive group, primarily white male, 35-55, mostly white collar, average to above average income level not exactly inclusive where spending is supposed to be for all!

Roadways on the other hand are used by everyone except a very small minority of the population, the infirm and those not engaged in society.

[GreyGarden]

I’ve heard the argument before that bike infrastructure only gets built in wealthy urban areas and excludes poorer suburbs. Or that poorer areas are far from the core and aren’t served well by AT infrastructure or transit and poorer residents are left with little option but to drive. I think in a lot of cities there’s a good argument that active transportation funding should be distributed in a fairer way but I really don’t think this argument works in Winnipeg. Unlike most cities, our core and core neighbourhoods, where bike lanes are typically built, are pretty poor. Opposite to a lot of cities, most of Winnipeg’s wealthy class live really far away from the core where the biking numbers are really low.

I suspect part of the reason the cycling demographic skews towards white men is because there’s so little bike infrastructure and our roads are more hostile towards women and minorities. I bet if you built out the network you’d see a more balanced representation of people using it.

In all honestly, the argument that there is some incredibly powerful bike organization in Winnipeg is pretty weak one. It’s not like there’s exactly a lot of good bike infrastructure in Winnipeg.

[esquire]

^ I live in the burbs and not that I'm a regular cyclist, but the odd time I venture out onto the AT paths I am often surprised by how busy they are. There is clearly a significant level of interest in using them. Not just by cyclists but by skateboarders, rollerbladers, runners, etc.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Would also like to examine the demographic of those who do cycle commute, seems to be to be a pretty exclusive group, primarily white male, 35-55, mostly white collar, average to above average income level not exactly inclusive where spending is supposed to be for all!

Roadways on the other hand are used by everyone except a very small minority of the population, the infirm and those not engaged in society.

Commuters generally skew toward the demographics you mentioned. But if you pass through the inner city you sure see a lot of people who don't fit into those demographic boxes riding bikes. I don't see why whether or not those people are going to or from work specifically should be the deciding factor.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Would also like to examine the demographic of those who do cycle commute, seems to be to be a pretty exclusive group, primarily white male, 35-55, mostly white collar, average to above average income level not exactly inclusive where spending is supposed to be for all!

Roadways on the other hand are used by everyone except a very small minority of the population, the infirm and those not engaged in society.

This is a wild statement, and far from the truth of what I see. All kinds of people, getting younger and younger every year. "Young people" are taking up biking in swaths, that 20-30 year old crowd is growing like crazy. Not so much always for commuting, but for evening and weekend activities. Cycling is starting to get big in the Filipino community in the Maples & GC who's younger generations are starting to go out more and more in other areas of the city and not wanting to drive everywhere.

Also would love to see these narrow roadways we're hacking in cycling lanes in everywhere. Can't think of any that are less than 3-lane one ways, certainly not happening downtown or in central areas. Only one would be Assiniboine, and it's much better now than it's ever been – no need for it to have heavy through traffic.

[GreyGarden]

Nice, I didn’t know that Winnipeg has narrow roads!

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I live in the burbs and not that I'm a regular cyclist, but the odd time I venture out onto the AT paths I am often surprised by how busy they are. There is clearly a significant level of interest in using them. Not just by cyclists but by skateboarders, rollerbladers, runners, etc.

AT paths are busy and there should be more of them for everyone to use, hacked in dedicated bike lanes are only used by a select few and they shouldn’t be a priority. The AT pathway I frequent has multiple ethnicities and all ages all the time, nice to see everyone using it!

Sounds like my comment on the cycle commute demographic hit a nerve with a few, guess some just can’t handle the truth!

[ywgwalk]

Ah, using the decades old demographics of the people who cycle commuted on-street to argue against dedicated lanes on street - the exact thing that would, and have, widened those demographics.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by ywgwalk

Ah, using the decades old demographics of the people who cycle commuted on-street to argue against dedicated lanes on street - the exact thing that would, and have, widened those demographics.

Nice pretend rebuttal with absolutely no basis to fact! Good pretend try though! Keep reaching!

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by trueviking

the piecemeal development is more than annoying. I agree.

The piecemeal development is why I had no choice but to vote against opening Portage and Main. The plan was extremely incomplete as it only looked at a single block and a single mode (pedestrians). It had zero consideration for transit or cyclists for example even if you want to hate on other types of vehicles.

Another prime example is the Garry bike lane. I was there with someone that is a very competent cyclists having almost exclusive used cycling as a transportation means for 20+ years and is used to riding in traffic including commuting between west Winnipeg and downtown daily. Asked what they though of the new bike lane and they said they wouldn't use it as it was poorly designed and being on the road with other traffic made more sense. To me it sounds like the bike lanes might be being built without someone that would use them being heavily engaged in the process, very similar to hiring someone's friend to be the architect to design your new stadium even though they have zero experience with that.

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

I suspect part of the reason the cycling demographic skews towards white men is because there’s so little bike infrastructure and our roads are more hostile towards women and minorities.

I'll take a stab at this one -- I think there are fewer women that are cycling commuters due to the off-road infrastructure. It seems in the majority of office buildings in Winnipeg there isn't a shower/change facility for cycling commuters. Reality is women spend a lot more time making themselves "ready to go to work". I suspect if there were better off-road cycling facilities in offices more women would be willing to commute.

In terms of ethnic groups, I think part of it might be the somewhat "in the know" bike commuting culture. Having talked a fair bit with cycling commuters there is definitely a community in Winnipeg and lots of "inside" knowledge. It isn't so much they aren't open to people from the ethnic communities but other things keep those groups away. Thinking of the main commuting cyclists I talk with there is one that is both a commuting cyclists and from an ethnic group but I would say they are more a distant associate of the cyclist community than a real member.

Another part of the ethnic issue in cycling could trace to their cultural origins where cycling is more accessible and owning a private vehicle could be a significant status symbol even without getting into expensive luxury vehicles. So commuting by bike is something the "poor" people do so if you have an office job in Winnipeg you don't want to act like a "poor" person.

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by CoryB

...
Another prime example is the Garry bike lane. I was there with someone that is a very competent cyclists having almost exclusive used cycling as a transportation means for 20+ years and is used to riding in traffic including commuting between west Winnipeg and downtown daily. Asked what they though of the new bike lane and they said they wouldn't use it as it was poorly designed and being on the road with other traffic made more sense. ...

Sorry, but I call "fake news" on this.

As someone who actually cycles through Downtown Winnipeg on the regular, I can say from experience that the Garry bike lane, while not perfect in its design, actually provides an important, usable, and safe link between the Assiniboine Ave bike lane and the Exchange, which was an important missing piece of the network. The problem, again, is the piecemeal approach to bike lane development. Riding in traffic through downtown doesn't "make more sense" - it's a necessary evil in the absence of safe cycling infrastructure.

Sorry, but "I know a guy who rides a bike who doesn't like this" is a weak form of argument.

[GreyGarden]

Yeah I’ve been seeing the Garry St bike lane getting a lot of hate but I really don’t mind it. It allows me to move from the exchange and through downtown without every having to be in traffic. The signage along Garry feels like overkill but oh well. The main issue I had with it was exiting the Exchange off Princess and turning onto Notre Dame. The first time I used it i was a bit confused but figured it out after just a few seconds.

[CoryB]

Another tell that the bike lane on Garry has issues is I have continued to see cyclists using the sidewalks on Garry rather than using the bike lanes on that street. But hey I guess that Authentic_City says those bike lanes are great is "fake news" as their sample size is only one person.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Another tell that the bike lane on Garry has issues is I have continued to see cyclists using the sidewalks on Garry rather than using the bike lanes on that street. But hey I guess that Authentic_City says those bike lanes are great is "fake news" as their sample size is only one person.

You raised some good points in your previous post, it’s hard to have a serious argument with cycling proponents who find it very hard to take any constructive criticism and most take any serious questions about cycling in Winnipeg personally.

Once again no one would be against spending on dedicated cycling If the numbers warranted it, the vast majority of the population will never cycle commute or use the downtown bike lanes, cycle commuting is still pretty exclusive and excludes most demographic groups, the climate in Winnipeg like or not is not conducive to cycling for the majority of the year, just fact.

AT pathways give the most bang for the buck as all groups use them and all forms of active transportation.

[buzzg]

The Garry bike lane is pretty good but definitely has some flaws:

- sooo many access points to all the parking lots makes it feel sketchy. really need to start pushing development there. It's (going to be) the main connector between Graham/Downtown and Exchange). Maybe it should have been on the west side.
- absurd signage, like every other bike lane in the city. information overload = mind shuts down and it all means nothing. clearly no one is being consulted on signage.
- useless pavement markings: there's bike icons in the parts of the lanes that are protected (duh) but nothing in/at the curb cuts and openings. not that clear to people exiting a lot that it's even a bike lane.
- inconsistent placement and timing of signals. At Broadway it turns green for bikes for like 3 seconds while left turn lane is red, then switches so if you weren't already waiting as a cyclist at the red, you miss a whole cycle. Yet everywhere else the bike signal stays green while the lane beside is green (start is usually just delayed a bit).
- almost no signage for northbound cyclists as they're contra-flow to street.
- It's great if you're going from Assiniboine to the Exchange (or vice versa) but there's essentially no east-west connections. The painted lane on St. Mary is gone, York doesn't have one. So people coming or going from there often just stay on the sidewalk. Plus, there's no turn boxes, so it's unclear how cyclists are even supposed to safely make a turn.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by buzzg

The Garry bike lane is pretty good but definitely has some flaws:

- inconsistent placement and timing of signals. At Broadway it turns green for bikes for like 3 seconds while left turn lane is red, then switches so if you weren't already waiting as a cyclist at the red, you miss a whole cycle. Yet everywhere else the bike signal stays green while the lane beside is green (start is usually just delayed a bit).

[...]

- It's great if you're going from Assiniboine to the Exchange (or vice versa) but there's essentially no east-west connections. The painted lane on St. Mary is gone, York doesn't have one. So people coming or going from there often just stay on the sidewalk. Plus, there's no turn boxes, so it's unclear how cyclists are even supposed to safely make a turn.

What is possibly unclear to cyclists is vehicles can only turn left at Portage, York and Broadway. Those lights favor cyclists over left turns when get a delayed green. Not to mention how the through traffic/right turn vehicle lane gets a green well ahead of the left turn lane and confuses the people driving in vehicles often leading to lead turns across the cycling path on their "protected" green.

You also raise a good point - how are cyclists supposed to make a right turn when travelling south on Garry.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Once again no one would be against spending on dedicated cycling If the numbers warranted it, the vast majority of the population will never cycle commute or use the downtown bike lanes, cycle commuting is still pretty exclusive and excludes most demographic groups, the climate in Winnipeg like or not is not conducive to cycling for the majority of the year, just fact.

AT pathways give the most bang for the buck as all groups use them and all forms of active transportation.

I think one of the biggest complaints about the Garry bike lane, from cyclists is that it doesn't really go anywhere. It is on a fairly low traffic secondary street running from Ellice, which doesn't have a bike lane, to Assiniboine which only really covers downtown. Either way at some point you still need to share the road with other vehicles.

Another one I have seen coming up recently is adding bike lanes to Portage Ave between downtown and Polo Park. Makes perfect sense except the City has been sinking significant money into St Matthews to service that same perceived need from the cycling community. If the cyclists want/need to be in Portage Ave it doesn't matter how great the cycling infrastructure you are building about 1 KM north is. One of the issues I have heard about St Matthews is that it ends at Maryland, slightly short of downtown.

This is the type of issue that happens when we, as a city, continue to take on projects in isolated bubbles and not talk to the intended users in a meaningful way. Want to get some real world feedback from cyclists? Send a student out and hand out something like a card at a stop light to cyclists asking them to go to an online survey.

Want to know about the needs of pedestrians near Portage and Main? Go talk to people walking on the street.

[joshlemer]

People in this thread commenting that there are no East/West connections to Garry may be forgetting about Graham (admittedly, only between the Bay and Main), the St. Marry dedicated bike lane, the connection to Notre Dame which has 2-way connection up to adelaide, as well as bannatyne/mcdermot which take you to HSC. Not to mention, connection to Assiniboine itself, which can take you all the way from St. Boniface <-> Forks <-> Wolseley <-> Polo <-> etc.