Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II / 360 Main St. | ~142M | 465 Ft | 42F | U/C

[buzzg]

Fort has the potential to be one of the premier streets downtown, basted on location. Walk over from The Forks, and right up crossing Portage into The Exchange, first passing the entrance to the pedestian-only Albert Street.... sigh....

[WolselyMan]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Perhaps. You'll also look back one day and probably re-evaluate on settling so easily just to see something built. (as a fan and not necessarily a decision maker) This development won't do a thing for steering this area to becoming more pedestrian friendly.

Again, In what way is this plan not pedestrian friendly? Just because there isn't gonna be a restaurant with a patio facing Fort does not make this area into an alleyway. There are gonna be multiple entrances that'll lead right to the grocery store. And the only place where the pedestrian landscape is interfered with is with a small slot in the middle for parkade access. If you wanna talk about deadzones, this is a substantial improvement to the way Fort is right now, and there is plenty of undeveloped land on the other side that can make up for anything sleepy about Fort's proposed design.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Awesome shot. Wouldn't it be cool if one of the "halfs" of the existing 360 Main tower were a few stories taller than the other? Might make for a cool effect. Seems like that was the original intention in that rendering from the 70s.

It was actually a fairly creative design for the period. The exterior didn't work well, but that is now fixed.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

I'm glad the second office tower wasn't built now that we're getting the apartment tower. Instead of just bringing people downtown during office hours from Monday to Friday, we'll have a 24 hours presence on a daily basis. Also, it's quite possible that Artis might never have bought the property if there were 2 office towers and we would have been stuck with a pair of boring beige buildings with 1970s architecture. Now we'll get a sleek looking structure which will also be the tallest building in the city (unless SkyCity gets built as well). Nevertheless, this is an exciting development for Winnipeg.

I would have loved to see the entire project completed years ago.The 300 main tower would have just gone somewhere else close by.Perhaps where CDI is?
It would have meant our economy and downtown could have supported that and much more ear;ier on and now.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

I would have loved to see the entire project completed years ago.The 300 main tower would have just gone somewhere else close by.Perhaps where CDI is?
It would have meant our economy and downtown could have supported that and much more ear;ier on and now.

If only. It would have been very cool to see two similar looking towers filling our downtown, with a hotel in the middle, and you would have a lot of bustling activity going on.

With that said, things could have been very different for our downtown instead, had the original 300 Main tower and 330 Main hotel were built.

It would have also made our skyline that brownish/olive green colour even more.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

Again, In what way is this plan not pedestrian friendly? Just because there isn't gonna be a restaurant with a patio facing Fort does not make this area into an alleyway. There are gonna be multiple entrances that'll lead right to the grocery store. And the only place where the pedestrian landscape is interfered with is with a small slot in the middle for parkade access. If you wanna talk about deadzones, this is a substantial improvement to the way Fort is right now, and there is plenty of undeveloped land on the other side that can make up for anything sleepy about Fort's proposed design.

Fort!Fort!Fort! Do you not see the 3 foot tall concrete planter stretching along Main just because the developer wants to do a quick turnover by incorporating a dated idea for 30 years ago?!? This is something that can only be corrected as a capped parking garage. Maybe you have another 5 to 10 years. It's still better than rushing this tower through and Winnipeggers living with the consequences for the next 100 years.

The proposed tower design is also a showcase for everything wrong with residential design today. A bland, mediocre tower with a whole bunch of decorative ideas hastily thrown on it to give it some additional oomph.

[jmt18325]

You know what they say about opinions....

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

You know what they say about opinions....

Off with their heads?

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Fort!Fort!Fort! Do you not see the 3 foot tall concrete planter stretching along Main just because the developer wants to do a quick turnover by incorporating a dated idea for 30 years ago?!? This is something that can only be corrected as a capped parking garage. Maybe you have another 5 to 10 years. It's still better than rushing this tower through and Winnipeggers living with the consequences for the next 100 years.

The proposed tower design is also a showcase for everything wrong with residential design today. A bland, mediocre tower with a whole bunch of decorative ideas hastily thrown on it to give it some additional oomph.

Compared to everything else that has been built in Winnipeg, this is amazing.

[ILYR]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Compared to everything else that has been built in Winnipeg, this is amazing.

Yes it is really relative. In 2000 nobody would even believe such a project would even exist in Winnipeg. Fast-forward 17 years and now people complain about aspect of the design of such a project. What does this mean? Well in my opinion this is a good sign and the city is growing. We no longer dream about big projects, but now expect that they are also of high quality.

To add, I think that the design for the James Avenue Pumping Station has shown that the city is also creating some rather bold designs that many would only expect in other major cities.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Fort!Fort!Fort! Do you not see the 3 foot tall concrete planter stretching along Main just because the developer wants to do a quick turnover by incorporating a dated idea for 30 years ago?!? This is something that can only be corrected as a capped parking garage. Maybe you have another 5 to 10 years. It's still better than rushing this tower through and Winnipeggers living with the consequences for the next 100 years.

The proposed tower design is also a showcase for everything wrong with residential design today. A bland, mediocre tower with a whole bunch of decorative ideas hastily thrown on it to give it some additional oomph.

Rushing? 50 years later is rushing?

[bomberjet]

What the problem with the planters? If you check vs existing they're actually removing some and replacing it. I don't really have an issue with what they're doing. The parkades there, which is dumb. Move on. Really it's the drop off lane that was supposed to be for the hotel. But why would ARTIS want to get rid of that? Us lowly forumers are supposed to protest out there on private property? haha

[The Unknown Poster]

If the entrance is open to the fort side (and inviting) wont there be a significant amount of traffic from area residents walking to the store etc? (from TNS & hopefully Skycity)?

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What an awful street level. I know. They are working with a preexisting condition. However, working with the mistakes made 40 years instead of correcting them is an even bigger mistake. Too bad.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Perhaps. You'll also look back one day and probably re-evaluate on settling so easily just to see something built. (as a fan and not necessarily a decision maker) This development won't do a thing for steering this area to becoming more pedestrian friendly.

Nonsense.

If you speak with such authority on street levels, then surely you know the implications of cost? The street level is raise because that is literally the structure of the underground... no doubt a failure of the original developer (who failed on many fronts).

Maybe you're less familiar with the Wpg market, but profit margins are much slimmer here. Higher cost of construction and much lower rents. This project would never go ahead if the existing foundation wasn't already build so nobody was going to rebuild an underground mall just to humour a more romantic idea of a street level.

As for bringing people downtown, this development is easily best positioned among all new ones in Winnipeg, despite the existing foundation. Closest connection to the CBD and P+M, connected via +15 and underground at their busiest points, highest frequency of bus traffic and access, etc...

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Fort!Fort!Fort! Do you not see the 3 foot tall concrete planter stretching along Main just because the developer wants to do a quick turnover by incorporating a dated idea for 30 years ago?!? This is something that can only be corrected as a capped parking garage. Maybe you have another 5 to 10 years. It's still better than rushing this tower through and Winnipeggers living with the consequences for the next 100 years.

The proposed tower design is also a showcase for everything wrong with residential design today. A bland, mediocre tower with a whole bunch of decorative ideas hastily thrown on it to give it some additional oomph.

Wow, again, quick turnaround? Developer's get accused of profit driven cynicism but you can be cynical enough to tell people to spend millions for little reason? It took 40 years for something to happen here and surely that's quick in your eyes

As far as design, many a cynic can call anything modern that isn't as out there as a Frank Gehry design "bland".

Hey, maybe you know something we all don't here, but you just came in an shat on everything without actually adding any substance to your position. And you completely ignored financial implications that come with your ideals.

Furthermore, your comment about "rushing" indicates little knowledge of the context here. Tax incentives available only now and the existing foundation are what make this project feasible. That's how thin development can get here. So it's happening now, and nobody will waste money on fixing the underground mall to remove a 3ft wall.

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

Compared to everything else that has been built in Winnipeg, this is amazing.

Not just for Winnipeg. Throughout many major downtowns, there are highrise complexes that are less attractive, offer less for the streetfront (as many in Toronto are just a wall that goes up), and do not have a similar offering of amenities or tie ins to existing infrastructure. There might be a few better ones in Toronto or Vancouver, but there are many worse ones also.



I've become the lilwayne of 300 Main...

[optimusREIM]

^ that lilwayne comment is quite apt

[WolselyMan]

Why do we even need to keep the drop-off lane anyways? You could do away with it entirely except for the parkade exit at the Graham end. The lane can then become completely pedestrianized and it wouldn't take any marvel of engineering to implement it. Chances are I'm missing something incredibly obvious seeing how I proudly do not know how to drive, but what exactly is it about this lane that'll be needed for 300 main?

[bomberjet]

I don't think there's any need for it really. Since no hotel is in there. But ARTIS has it and they use it. Employees use its well. So why would they let it go. I'm playing devils advocate.

[robertocarlos]

The lane is a good drop off zone.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I don't think there's any need for it really. Since no hotel is in there. But ARTIS has it and they use it. Employees use its well. So why would they let it go. I'm playing devils advocate.

Exactly. Look at it from Artis' perspective. It would add significant expense to remove the dropoff lane, and it would probably lead to frustration and inconvenience for tenants who use the dropoff lane... taking something away that people are used to is inevitably harder than not giving it to them in the first place. Plus, it's not like Main Street is some pedestrian hotbed where you could easily lease space out for top dollar to offset those costs and headaches.

I don't blame Artis for keeping the dropoff lane. I just wish the originally envisioned hotel was going up on that middle pad instead of a grocery store plus whatever else is slated to go above it.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by WolselyMan

Why do we even need to keep the drop-off lane anyways? You could do away with it entirely except for the parkade exit at the Graham end. The lane can then become completely pedestrianized and it wouldn't take any marvel of engineering to implement it. Chances are I'm missing something incredibly obvious seeing how I proudly do not know how to drive, but what exactly is it about this lane that'll be needed for 300 main?

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I don't think there's any need for it really. Since no hotel is in there. But ARTIS has it and they use it. Employees use its well. So why would they let it go. I'm playing devils advocate.

Well, you're completely correct... Part of this project is a relocation of the main entrance to the lane, because the current one is out of the way. Artis has a shuttle that continually drives lawyers to and from the courts all day, and these types of tenants are marquee tenants.

In addition to this, the apartments are not all pure rentals, but also furnished suites... I think part of the goal is to attract corporate visitors, whether consultants, auditors, lawyers, etc who need something hotel-esque... If the company is paying the bill, they want convenience. A lane helps.

The lane is a huge boost to any street level CRU, because if you're not on foot, where do you park? If all you want is a sandwich, you can't park on main, graham, or fort anywhere nearby. This is not the biggest concern but you don't get rid of a selling feature.

Lastly, my hunch is, if you want a grocer in these modern e-times, you need a pickup zone. This would be the best location by far.

You can perhaps get away without offering these conveniences... in a strong market. Winnipeg is not there yet. In order for the market to get strong, the numbers gotta be strong.