Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[eemy]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

Sure, if you agree to be more optimistic about JAR's future instead of consistently bringing up the negatives of what is being accomplished. I'll try and lead by example and go on the Edmonton Airport thread and place some positively reinforcing comments.

As I said before bro, peace

I personally think untempered optimism is a bit irritating and certainly not useful. (What ever happened to the YEG-FRA flight everyone was so excited about?) There's nothing wrong with taking an honest look at the real world and assessing it as it is. Dave is right, it is highly unlikely that Winnipeg would pick up any traffic from Minneapolis on a possible European flight.

Personally, I think this new terminal is going to be a fantastic improvement (though I always liked the old terminal anyway). Realistically, it's unlikely to be the catalyst for a flight to FRA. Air Canada would almost certainly be the airline flying the route, though Lufthansa could (though it is unlikely) in the future once open skies are negotiated with the EU. Here are the reasons:
- LHR tends to be the prime European destination for Canadian cities and has always seen new service before FRA.
- both LHR and FRA are slot restricted, meaning that it is very difficult to start a new flight during peak periods, which is about the only time AC would be able to have the flight due to the fact that aircraft would have to rotate onto the route at either FRA of LHR.
- AC is very short on equipment to start a new flight.
- with the addition of YEG-LHR and the LH YYC-FRA flights, there has been a glut of capacity to those cities from the west. YWG is better located to connect people from YQR and YXE, but it is unlikely that either LH or AC would want to affect loads on their other two flights by starting another flight to YWG.

Icelandair is quite plausible though. There is a significant Icelandic population in Manitoba, and the airline has focused on connecting underserved and smaller markets to Europe.

[DAVEinEDMONTON]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I personally think untempered optimism is a bit irritating and certainly not useful. (What ever happened to the YEG-FRA flight everyone was so excited about?) There's nothing wrong with taking an honest look at the real world and assessing it as it is. Dave is right, it is highly unlikely that Winnipeg would pick up any traffic from Minneapolis on a possible European flight.

Personally, I think this new terminal is going to be a fantastic improvement (though I always liked the old terminal anyway). Realistically, it's unlikely to be the catalyst for a flight to FRA. Air Canada would almost certainly be the airline flying the route, though Lufthansa could (though it is unlikely) in the future once open skies are negotiated with the EU. Here are the reasons:
- LHR tends to be the prime European destination for Canadian cities and has always seen new service before FRA.
- both LHR and FRA are slot restricted, meaning that it is very difficult to start a new flight during peak periods, which is about the only time AC would be able to have the flight due to the fact that aircraft would have to rotate onto the route at either FRA of LHR.
- AC is very short on equipment to start a new flight.
- with the addition of YEG-LHR and the LH YYC-FRA flights, there has been a glut of capacity to those cities from the west. YWG is better located to connect people from YQR and YXE, but it is unlikely that either LH or AC would want to affect loads on their other two flights by starting another flight to YWG.

Icelandair is quite plausible though. There is a significant Icelandic population in Manitoba, and the airline has focused on connecting underserved and smaller markets to Europe.

Your points make lots of sense and certainly explain why flights to Europe from any western Canadian city are hard to come by. My only hope fpr the Edmonton market is that when new flights come around that airlines look at sharing the flight. For example, like Mexicana and Mexico city...Calgary starts off with 4 days per week and then they add Edmonton with the other 3 days splitting the route. Despite the fact that you may need ground crews at two airports, you would think this would be a good way to keep your passenger load factors high by encouraging both cities to use your flight. However, not all airlines think this way but the hope is that maybe LH will eventually, if they see a need, add some departures from Edmonton...but for now...it is still an optimistic dream.

[Mrj]

Originally Posted by Tower Crane

So, from what I have read are we saying that the new airport has only 2 more gates?

The 9th boarding bridge in the current terminal has only been installed since the new terminal construction was started, and is really just a stopgap since there's no additional holdroom space added (and no additional apron space - so I believe there's restrictions on what aircraft can be parked at which positions). On that basis going from 8 bridges as of early 2007 to 11 once the new terminal opens, and 12 in what will hopefully be a quick phase 2 (WAA was looking at accelerating that) could be an increase of 22% to 50%+ in the number of bridged gate positions, depending on how you count it. It's probably a good size - enough to develop some new options, but also financially sustainable, and expandable.

[Mrj]

I would think the most likely service overseas would be for Zoom to increase its flights to Gatwick, or perhaps add another route to Europe. Alternatively, Icelandair would be a great addition for the European connections at Keflavic.

British Airways is quite unlikely, if any major carrier offered service it would likely be Air Canada to Heathrow. If YEG is any indication, I wouldn't look too much to that until YWG reaches the 5 million passenger mark, which at 5% growth would be around 2014. While LHR is slot constrained, AC is one of the larger slot holders. Also, YEG has largely supported its LHR flight on its own, as AC has routed most connecting traffic via YYC. Since YWG is a logical connection point for Saskatchewan, there would be a certain amount of feed generated. I wouldn't call YWG-LHR likely, but not impossible. How much extra capacity is in the Alberta and BC markets at that point would also play into it.

Winnipeggers may travel a lot, but are very fragmented in their patterns - there's no one destination with overwhelming traffic levels. For that reason I believe we'd see London before Frankfurt - although FRA is a great Star Alliance hub, and there is a fair bit of German traffic, it doesn't serve the western Europe market as well. LHR can serve the UK market, which is a bit bigger destination for Canadians than Germany, plus make use of the British Midland, Lufthansa, and other Star Alliance connections to Europe and beyond.

[DLLB]

Does anyone have any recent pictures of the progress to date?

[Greco Roman]

Got into JAR at 11:45 pm last night, so I didn't get a chance to see too much of the new airport in the dark. But my flight out leaves at 4:30 pm, so I will have a much better opportunity to see for myself the progress of this awsome airport.

[Hawker]

Originally Posted by Mrj

I would think the most likely service overseas would be for Zoom to increase its flights to Gatwick, or perhaps add another route to Europe. Alternatively, Icelandair would be a great addition for the European connections at Keflavic.

Well, you can count Zoom out...

[The Jabroni]

...which is too bad.

But hey, there's still hope for the future, and with this terminal, a more direct service to Europe should be coming a lot sooner than later.

[ILYR]

Plane seized as Zoom Airlines folds
Hundreds of travellers left stranded at airports
Last Updated: Thursday, August 28, 2008 | 7:50 PM ET

Zoom Airlines Inc. sought court protection from creditors and suspended all operations Thursday, as one of its 737s was seized and hundreds of passengers were left stranded at airports in Canada and abroad.

Ottawa-based Zoom Airlines, which flies in Canada, the Caribbean and Europe, filed a notice of application, blaming its troubles on the sagging economy and the "horrendous" increases in fuel prices that resulted in a $50-million rise in operating costs in 2007 alone.

In a statement, Zoom executive chair Hugh Boyle said the company's British and Canadian operations "have sought creditor protection by filing legal notices of intention to appoint an administrator in both the U.K. and Canada."

The company also said Thursday afternoon on its website that all flights scheduled to depart have been cancelled and its aircraft have been grounded.

The Halifax International Airport Authority, which is owed nearly $200,000 by the airline, obtained and executed late Thursday a court order allowing it to seize one of Zoom's grounded Boeing 737 planes, Peter Spurway, the airport authority's vice-president, said.

"The plane is worth quite a bit more than that, though I don't know what the going rate is," Spurway said Thursday night. "But we'll just hang on to it and continue our discussions with Zoom tomorrow."

Outstanding debts were the carrier's undoing. Ground crews in Halifax refused to release the 737 earlier in the day because their company hadn't been paid $2 million owed, while a flight slated to leave Glasgow was held back by the Civil Aviation Authority because of unpaid accounts.

Outside Zoom's Ottawa headquarters on Hunt Club Road, the doors were locked and people were seen leaving the building with boxes and plants, loading them into cars and driving away.

The unexpected move jeopardized the flights of hundreds of passengers on Wednesday and Thursday at airports in Canada, the Caribbean and Europe.

Dozens of passengers stranded in Halifax bedded down Thursday night in the airport's observation deck with sleeping mats, pillows and blankets provided by the airport.

Erin Cott, who learned her flight to Calgary from Glasgow was cancelled Thursday after being first told it would be delayed, ended up paying $1,000 for a ticket on another airline so she should could fly Friday for a Saturday wedding.

"This is the worst airline I've ever booked with," she told CBC News.

Imran Usmani said he felt "gutted" after learning of the airline's troubles. The university student, who is visiting Toronto, is supposed to be on a Zoom flight to Glasgow on Sept. 13 to return to school. Now he's wondering where he'll find the money for another ticket.

Zoom 'sorry for the inconvenience': founders

Zoom said customers who had future travel plans with the airline for which reservations and payment have been made should refer to their credit or debit card company for a refund. British Airways and Virgin Atlantic are offering special fares to assist stranded Zoom passengers, the company said, adding that a list of other airlines that could assist them was available on its website.

"We are desperately sorry for the inconvenience that this will cause passengers and those who have booked flights," Zoom founders John and Hugh Boyle said in a release. "Even as late as yesterday we had secured a new investment package but the actions of creditors meant we could not continue flying."

On Wednesday, dozens of passengers booked on a Zoom flight bound for Vancouver were stranded at Calgary International Airport.

The discount carrier owes money to fuel suppliers and airports, including $400,000 to the Calgary Airport Authority, said airport authority spokesman Bryce Paton.

"They certainly owe lots to the Calgary Airport Authority, and we understand [to] other airports across the country," Paton said.

Paton said about 97 passengers who got off a flight when it landed in Calgary were scheduled to continue to fly to Vancouver with Zoom Airlines.

WestJet came to their rescue, booking them on several flights out of Calgary, he said.

Another 69 passengers, who were scheduled to fly to the U.K., learned Wednesday evening that Zoom had cancelled their flight.

In Ottawa, passengers were told Wednesday that their flight to London Gatwick was delayed, only to learn Thursday it was cancelled. Many scrambled to retrieve their baggage from the carousel and buy seats on an Air Canada flight, but at least one man decided to go home and cancel his vacation.

Ottawa airport spokesperson Krista Kealey said the airport was aware of the situation at other airports, but Zoom didn't owe any money to the Ottawa airport and had always been "a good customer."

Zoom Airlines employed 450 people in Canada and 260 in Britain.

[Greco Roman]

You know, I saw several Zoom planes just sitting around the Calgary Airport on Wednesday; thought it was kinda strange but didn't really expect this. I really hope that Winnipeg will benefit out of this with more direct service to Europe.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

You know, I saw several Zoom planes just sitting around the Calgary Airport on Wednesday; thought it was kinda strange but didn't really expect this. I really hope that Winnipeg will benefit out of this with more direct service to Europe.

All in good time Greco... all in good time...

[1ajs]

Winnipeg MP blasts use of foreign construction workers

Last Updated: Friday, August 29, 2008 | 9:22 AM CT Comments20Recommend22

CBC News


Winnipeg MP Pat Martin is angry that one of Manitoba's largest construction projects is employing temporary foreign workers.
Nearly 40 international carpenters, mostly from Lebanon, are working on the construction of a new terminal at Winnipeg's Richardson International Airport, Martin said.
"There is no skill shortage here in Winnipeg. And if we can afford to fly these people in from Lebanon and Russia, we can afford to bus them in from St. Laurent or fly them down from Red Sucker Lake and give some opportunities to some aboriginal youth or something," he told CBC News.
"We have all these training programs for young … aboriginal kids, to get them in the industry. And then we don't have jobs to send them to when they graduate. Here's this great job going right in our own backyard and there's just no justification to bring in almost 40 carpenters."
'Cheap labour'

Martin says companies want to use temporary foreign workers to get "cheap labour," adding that the foreign workers are exempt from trades' collective agreements.
"A qualified tradesman in Manitoba gets $25, $30 an hour, plus a pension plan, plus a dental plan — a wage that you can raise a family on and help grow our community," said Martin, a carpenter and former leader of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America in Manitoba.
"These guys are … paid God-knows-what, maybe Lebanese rates of pay, and it does no good to our local economy and it certainly doesn't help us build the base of skilled workers that we're going to need for the future."
Martin blamed the federal Conservatives for the issue, saying they have "opened the floodgates" to temporary foreign workers in the construction trades.
The program is being abused, he said: it was supposed to help deal with specific skill shortages on a temporary basis, but now the government is giving away permits too freely.
"[Companies] might run an ad in the local newspaper, 'Carpenters wanted,' and if nobody bites, or if the right people don't bite, they then go to the government and say, "Oh, I can't find qualified people. Let me bring them in,'" he said.
"We should be fighting to make sure that we have a human-resources strategy to meet the skill shortages in Canada, not giving these jobs away to the first labour broker that seems to ask for them."
CBC's calls to Reemaco Inc, which is doing the work at the airport, have not been returned.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

...we can afford to bus them in from St. Laurent or fly them down from Red Sucker Lake and give some opportunities to some aboriginal youth or something...

...These guys are … paid God-knows-what, maybe Lebanese rates of pay

..."[Companies] might run an ad in the local newspaper, 'Carpenters wanted,' and if nobody bites, or if the right people don't bite, they then go to the government and say, "Oh, I can't find qualified people. Let me bring them in,'" he said.

Any possibility he's making this up as he goes along? Maybe someone from Lebanon could be brought over to sit as MP for Winnipeg Centre for a half or quarter of whatever we're paying Pat Martin.

[wags_in_the_peg]

we bring in foreign workers to work in textile shops, taxi drivers, truck drivers, etc, etc, etc. Heck, my wife works in a hairstyling place and they are short workers so they have looked into sponsering a few from russia. many of these companies have been "burned" by these aboriginals who just don't want to work. not painting them all with the same brush, but i've seen it myself.

[Boreal]

I have no problem with improting employees. There already exists a reasonably decent set of guidelines (exhausting worthwhile local opportunities first) before one looks abroad. This is not worth enforcing with what would take valuable public resources. Not ever operation down to counting staples of private enterprise can bet set inside a iron public fist. In real terms, any company worth a nickel will look local first, second and third. It is backwards economics to believe otherwise. With all of that said, if the talent pool in the immediate setting is very weak or non-existent, how can one blame a firm for expanding their horizons? The firm is out to make money.

In my opinion, too much of a burden is placed on business owners, managers, etc. to bend over backwards to accomodate. It is not the modus operandi nor the obligation of the firm to search out every inch of the backwoods to find a beating heart who might have the ability to do a well-paid job at a high level of proficiency. The obligation of the firm is to treat all potential employees equally. They can't be judged for "ignoring" people who never showed up with the interest to work.

If the arguement was over financial compensation to an individual for work done, then I think a strong arguement could be made, but given that every legal, landed worker is paid commensurate with their contemporaries, then the arguement we are getting into is one of the firm spendind valuable resources to go and recruit from a well depleted pool of potential. If that is so desired, then perhaps more business subsidies should be in order. If not, what's good for the goose has to be good for the gander. We can't expect business interests to use valuable financial resources to turn over every piece of sod if we would be unwilling to subsidize a similar venture.

I apologize for the rant, but I'm tired of everybody blaming everybody else, and not standing up and being accountable for themselves.

[Spocket]

Well we already know that there is a shortage of skilled workers not just in Manitoba but in the whole country. As well, I would think that this would make it that much easier for these temporary workers to actually immigrate here if they so chose (and since we need them I hope that at least some of them try to remain in Canada legally)

If this company needs the people then it needs the people. I'm not going to pretend I know something about what rights a temporary worker has in Canada but I'd be rather surprised if there was really any great profit to be made to employ these workers instead of locals. Our government may not be the best in the world but when it comes to the rights of all people on Canadian soil, we've built up a history of treating all as equally as possible. Well, over the last few decades anyway (I really don't want to argue about what this country has done right or wrong throughout its history) In any case, if Martin thinks he knows what he's talking about then fine, let him make his case. If he's right then we should be lining up behind him. If he's wrong with his assumptions (and so far, that's what it appears he's basing his argument on) then we should probably be looking for his replacement.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

we bring in foreign workers to work in textile shops, taxi drivers, truck drivers, etc, etc, etc. Heck, my wife works in a hairstyling place and they are short workers so they have looked into sponsering a few from russia. many of these companies have been "burned" by these aboriginals who just don't want to work. not painting them all with the same brush, but i've seen it myself.

sad thing is thats very true

[thegreattait]

Perhaps Mr. Martin should look at putting words into action, instead of spewing rhetoric to vainly appease some potential voters. If he believes that his constituents have been wronged or people from this province have been wronged in some way then perhaps he should look at improving the efficiency of government, perhaps he should work with existing government programs that are in charge of finding the Canadian workers jobs, surely the government keeps tabs on which major construction projects are taking place in the city and province. The province should be stepping forward to business owners, saying "look we have trained labour ready and willing to work" instead he grumbles after the fact that it is the company's fault. Well maybe the government should be proactive and along with skills training, teach these newly educated individuals how to look for jobs in their industry and maybe provide them support to travel from far flung remote communities so that they can take advantage of the growing construction industry in Winnipeg and surrounding regions. Hey they'll get any investment back in income tax in the end, so its a win win situation for all.

[Tower Crane]

I don't see the problem with out of country workers, they actually want to work. The construction company I work for has made repeated attempts to use local people that are currently out of work, aboriginal, and or people identifying that they want to get off the social welfare system. I can't tell you how many times that fails, it comes down to some people want to show up for work daily and actually put in an honest days work, day after day, and week after week. Then theres the others who want to complain but actually can't bring themselves to actual show up for work, or are always late, and are not responsible in any way.
There's no excuse for people not to be working, the construction industry is in need on all fronts and in a number of provinces.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

many of these companies have been "burned" by these aboriginals who just don't want to work. not painting them all with the same brush, but i've seen it myself.

I think most people realize that this is true. I know this aswell as I have also seen it in person and experienced it myself. The question remains: how do we get these aboriginals to get into the workforce? CAN this even be possible? Will we be forced to support aboriginal people on welfare for the rest of eternity?