Winnipeg's Exchange District | East/West | Development

[headhorse]

so apparently obby khan got a special audience with some council members and a free press article to spew a bunch of lies and garbage about how his terrible business isn't doing well. must be nice to just be rich and expect every one else to make your money for you.

the funniest things is all of his claims about the bike lanes being rammed through... there were literally 4 years of consultations and engagement for Garry St and the East Exchange/West Alex lanes Obby. what an embarassment

[esquire]

^ I like the bike lanes but now even I'm starting to wonder if they're worth the hassle... I mean, the business owners all seem to hate them and I hardly ever see anyone using them.

[headhorse]

maybe if he wants to make more money he should start charging cops full price, they make enough money to pay for their $10 lunch

[drew]

^ I am not sure that Obby Khan is rich by most measures of that definition.

And I don't think we should just dismiss local business owner concerns. Like his business or not, he started it, and really - it's not that terrible (IMO).

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I like the bike lanes but now even I'm starting to wonder if they're worth the hassle... I mean, the business owners all seem to hate them and I hardly ever see anyone using them.

I use them most days. there is a 60 year old woman who parks on Main St and uses them every day, even in the winter. the system is not even COMPLETE yet. the Garry st lane was supposed to be complete in October and is still not open.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by drew

^ I am not sure that Obby Khan is rich by most measures of that definition.

And I don't think we should just dismiss local business owner concerns. Like his business or not, he started it, and really - it's not that terrible (IMO).

he owns how many businesses? makes 6 figure profits? got paid hundreds of thousands a year while playing? come on

also, there are way more businesses who didn't sign this? forth is right on the lanes, they didn't sign. community gym didn't sign. lark, johnny g's, miss browns, clementine, etc all didn't sign

one thing a lot of these businesses who did sign have in common is they were around before there were a lot more options for food, coffee, retail in the Exchange... they can't handle the competition they supposedly love as part of capitalism.

here's who did sign: Toad Hall Toys, Pan Am Boxing, King and Bannatyne, Warehouse Artworks, Mayberry Fine Art, King's Head, Deer + Almond, Into the Music, and Parlour Coffee.
all business that are having to compete with new competition to their model

[esquire]

Originally Posted by headhorse

I use them most days. there is a 60 year old woman who parks on Main St and uses them every day, even in the winter. the system is not even COMPLETE yet. the Garry st lane was supposed to be complete in October and is still not open.

I dunno. As someone who has admitted to being a somewhat timid cyclist, streets like Garry or McDermot were some of the least of my concerns. I always felt comfortable riding on them without bike lanes. They don't make much of a difference to me one way or the other. It's the busy suburban streets like Pembina where bike lanes really make a HUGE difference.

Whenever I cross the street at a downtown intersection with a bike lane, it's definitely the exception that I encounter a cyclist, although I get that it's winter and numbers are down a bit.

All I'm asking here is what is really gained if we spend a bunch of money on a few lightly used bike lanes downtown and end up killing a bunch of small businesses in the process?

[headhorse]

Safe and affordable mobility is more important than business profit

[esquire]

Originally Posted by headhorse

Safe and affordable mobility is more important than business profit

The issue is that cycling on relatively lightly trafficked downtown streets like Garry always was safe. It feels as though the vitality of the Exchange District is hanging by a thread... if a bunch of businesses close, it basically ruins the neighbourhood.

[headhorse]

capitalism always reinvents itself by destroying what was there before and making itself anew on those ashes... that's how it works. it's a terrible system but that's how it's going to work if we keep it around.

and no, it wasn't safe. this is just from one online resource, bikemaps.org

On Garry St:
Type: Collision with moving object or vehicle
Incident with: Vehicle, angle
Date: 29 Oct, 2015 10:30 PM
Incident ID: 2567
Details: Driver pulled out of parking spot across painted bike lane as I was riding by. Hit me with the from driver side corner of his car. Sent flying ahead of car. Car drove over and ruined front wheel.

Type: Collision with moving object or vehicle
Incident with: Vehicle, turning left
Date: 13 Jun, 2019 4:35 PM
Incident ID: 8113
Details: I was following another cyclist south on Gary St. when a car turned left to enter a parking lot, striking the first cyclist. She flipped over the left front of the car striking her head and left shoulder. EMS were called and attended to the cyclist.

from princess:
Type: Collision with moving object or vehicle
Incident with: Vehicle, turning right
Date: 19 Nov, 2018 7:30 AM
Incident ID: 8963
Details: Hydro truck turned left, crossing the bike lane without looking. I crashed into the driver's door.

[Biff]

Albert and McDermot Building (old Bodegoes Site)

[esquire]

^ That has the potential to be an absolute gem.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I like the bike lanes but now even I'm starting to wonder if they're worth the hassle... I mean, the business owners all seem to hate them and I hardly ever see anyone using them.

What business owner would want bike lanes that interfere with their business, the bunch of crap that Bike Winnipeg spews is just that, the city basically bent over for a tiny but vocal minority in hacking in these very lightly (rarely) used bike lanes.

Mark my words in 5-10 years they'll all be removed as common sense returns to city hall!

[GreyGarden]

I've also started to have complicated feelings towards the bike lanes as of late. I still support them but it does make me think Winnipeg is quite backwards in some ways. Bike lanes and networks have been really successful in winter cities like Minneapolis, Calgary and Montreal. So that says to me that its not our weather thats the problem like so many of the anti-bike lane people suggest. But it definitely stings to hear business owners come out so passionately against them.

I disagree that the vitality of the Exchange is hanging by a thread. Population continues to grow and theres still development taking place in the Exchange so I'm hopeful. As long as those two trends continue, the area should be fine, although there may be changes and some turnovers as new businesses respond to the demographics of the area.

[bomberjet]

It should be mandatory for people to take an embracing change workshop. People need to realize vehicles are not the be all end all.

And honestly, although you can shit on me for this comment, it's an age/generational thing. Not everyone, but yes that's the way it is.

My mom would fit right in with the posters on SSP about the "stupid bike lanes" " so dumb" " my car can't exit the parkade how it used to". That's my mom. Love her to death.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That has the potential to be an absolute gem.

I’m terrified. I sure hope it’s perfect. Such a critical site. The first real large scale modern intervention in the heart of the Exchange. I sure hope it is a generational project that has a strong sense of permanence. It is going to be a marching band of a building that intentionally upstages the rest. In the most sensitive context in the city, I just hope it’s in a good way.

[trueviking]

I have serious doubt that the Exchange District bike lanes that displaced a handful of parking spots is really the issue affecting business, but I kind of want them gone just so people stop blaming them.

I use them often and they are well used. More now that Garry Street is open, but they are such an easy target that maybe we should move on so it doesn’t affect bike lane construction in other areas. The rest of downtown should have real bike lanes. It’s less important on the small streets of the Exchange where the few storefronts we actually have downtown exist.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by esquire

It feels as though the vitality of the Exchange District is hanging by a thread..

That seems like a huge overreaction. Have any businesses at all closed due to the bike lanes? (Tiny Feast, as I understand it, is closing for personal reasons.)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

That seems like a huge overreaction. Have any businesses at all closed due to the bike lanes? (Tiny Feast, as I understand it, is closing for personal reasons.)

Well, the businesses in the West Exchange generally seem like they're on the marginal side of things. It's not Sainte Catherine Street with thousands of pedestrians such that the shops there could easily absorb a 5 or 10 per cent decline in sales. I get the impression that they're closer to the hand to mouth side of things. And if they start closing, the area will really suffer.

I guess this is to say that I want storefront businesses and bike lanes, but if I had to choose between one or the other, I'd take the businesses.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Bdog

I also think we have to be careful about making these debates about "people versus cars". It's people that are driving that are frequenting these establishments. It's people that risked their life savings to open these shops and services that are saying business has been down.

In the last year, I've heard complaints about lack of loading and/or parking from at least 7 businesses in that area, including Lennard Taylor, Across the Board, Parlour, Amsterdam, Hoopers, Hut K, School of Contemporary Dancers. The couple of thousand people living within a 10 minute walk of those businesses won't be able to support those businesses on their own. Neither will the dozens that bike all year round. Many will be people who will drive, and they all recognize that fact, whether or not we choose to.

I made this post a few months back during the whole 7-foot sidewalk debate. Now the list of businesses willing to speak publicly on this issue has grown, and many are very urban and progressive types too. I think we'd be wise not to dismiss their concerns outright just because someone claims that in Copenhagen bike lanes increased sales 46% within days.