The Great Canadian Practice your French Thread

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Slight tinge of French French in there still, though. A more standard Québécois formulation would be "on s'en sac'". On s'en criss is stronger / expresses ever so slightly more anger/irritation (still mild enough), on s'en câliss even more, and on s'en tabarnak even even more.

In a more formal setting (as at work in an office setting), personally I would say "on s'en fout".

Then one level down in terms of formality I would say "on s'en sac'". If you say "on s'en sac'" in an office setting it's almost like saying "we don't give a damn". Whereas the first one ("on s'en fout") is closer to "we don't care".

And then at the most informal level is where "on s'en crisse / on s'en câlisse" would come out. Equivalent to "we don't give a shit" or "we don't give a fuck" in English.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I noticed it, but I expected Acajack to answer.

Sorry, I've been very busy at work today until now.

Dealing with work colleagues, including some born and raised in France in fact, in "real French"!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

There is. "S'pas important" (written "Ce n'est pas important"...) ou encore "pas grave" ou "dérange pas" ou "pas besoin" etc

Or some of the new ones that have emerged in recent years (or so I've noticed):

Pas d'troub' (pas de trouble)

Y a pas de souci (imported from France)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It's correct and neutral. Although in informal speech, you'll sometimes hear things flipped (eg "donne-moi-le" instead of the more standard "donne-le-moi"). Generally, the direct object comes first and the indirect second. In this case "le" is the thing being made known, so it's the direct object. "Nous" is the person to which something is being made known (à nous), so it's indirect. So when putting it all together, "Faites-le nous savoir" is in the correct order.

But honestly, if you're learning and just speaking in a non-formal context, people will understand you no matter what order you put it in and won't flinch if you get it wrong. It's not a widely-known rule.

I would agree that it's perfectly fine, correct and understandable. Even if it comes off as a bit bureaucratic and unnatural.

I find that in Ottawa (municipally) in particular they often try to keep roughly the same sentence structure and approach when they translate.

Instead of actually dialing the whole thing back one or two levels, thinking the whole thing through regarding what is being said, and writing it or saying it as a francophone would from square one.

For example, this whole "How are we doing? Let us know /Laissez-le nous savoir" thing if it had its genesis in a francophone mind would probably come out as:

"Que pensez-vous de nos services?"

or maybe

"Partagez votre avis sur nos services"

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For example, this whole "How are we doing? Let us know /Laissez-le nous savoir" thing if it had its genesis in a francophone mind would probably come out as:

"Que pensez-vous de nos services?"

or maybe

"Partagez votre avis sur nos services"

"Let us know /Laissez-le nous savoir" is an example of a literal translation that is unacceptable in my job. The task of the translator is to faithfully represent the meaning and intent of the speaker of the source language, and this is a clear case of being unaware of (or not caring?) how a French speaker in Quebec would ask this question.

An example in English is the question "what is your job?" that you hear from non-native speakers from time to time. We would never say that, but would ask "what do you do?" or "what do you do for a living?" In fact, "what is your job?" sounds more like you're asking someone working on a group project what their specific task is, so to hear it from someone you've just met is a bit jarring.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

An example in English is the question "what is your job?" that you hear from non-native speakers from time to time. We would never say that, but would ask "what do you do?" or "what do you do for a living?" In fact, "what is your job?" sounds more like you're asking someone working on a group project what their specific task is, so to hear it from someone you've just met is a bit jarring.

I've done a bit of translation in my life so I know what you're talking about.

In French in most settings the question would be "qu'est-ce que tu fais/vous faites dans la vie?" which in English would literally be "what do you do in life?" which is easily understood but a professional translator would never translate it that way.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

"Let us know /Laissez-le nous savoir" is an example of a literal translation that is unacceptable in my job. The task of the translator is to faithfully represent the meaning and intent of the speaker of the source language, and this is a clear case of being unaware of (or not caring?) how a French speaker in Quebec would ask this question.

.

It is not so much bad faith as it is a question of contamination. There are lots of semi-correct ways of speaking French that you hear in Ottawa in official and semi-official circles. Which differs from Quebec where in anything resembling official circles it's usually pretty standardized.

So what happens is that after a while some people come to think that such and such a usage is correct.

You also see this in Montreal where the English both written and spoken is sometimes contaminated with "false friends" borrowed from French.

[rousseau]

Prior to a trip to Quebec once, I remember asking a native French speaker how you would ask "are you going far?" when encountering a fellow cyclist out on the roads. This would be a pretty standard, casual thing to say in English as the pretext for striking up a short conversation while riding side by side, but I think I stumped him, because he said "vas-tu loin?" just didn't sound right.

I didn't get a clear answer on this, actually. What would you say in this kind of situation?

[Dengler Avenue]

Even for something like “Speeding costs you” (if you guys are aware of the existence of those signs in Ontario), City of Ottawa translates it “La vitesse a un prix” (somewhere on Hunt Club Road). The MTO one is weird: “La vitesse est coûteuse”.

How would you guys say it? “La vitesse coûte chière”?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Prior to a trip to Quebec once, I remember asking a native French speaker how you would ask "are you going far?" when encountering a fellow cyclist out on the roads. This would be a pretty standard, casual thing to say in English as the pretext for striking up a short conversation while riding side by side, but I think I stumped him, because he said "vas-tu loin?" just didn't sound right.

I didn't get a clear answer on this, actually. What would you say in this kind of situation?

Well first off you should use the polite form "vous" rather than "tu", unless it's a kid you're addressing.

"Où est-ce que vous allez comme ça?" would be okay, I suppose. "Jusqu'où allez-vous?" works too. Or "Allez-vous jusqu'à [next logical destination/next city]?"

Even your "Allez-vous loin?" would be fine. Or "Allez-vous encore loin?" ou "Êtes-vous encore loin d'où vous allez?"

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is not so much bad faith as it is a question of contamination. There are lots of semi-correct ways of speaking French that you hear in Ottawa in official and semi-official circles. Which differs from Quebec where in anything resembling official circles it's usually pretty standardized.

So what happens is that after a while some people come to think that such and such a usage is correct.

You also see this in Montreal where the English both written and spoken is sometimes contaminated with "false friends" borrowed from French.

Makes one wonder whether Ontario French could slightly diverge from that of Quebec over time?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by lio45

Well first off you should use the polite form "vous" rather than "tu", unless it's a kid you're addressing.

"Où est-ce que vous allez comme ça?" would be okay, I suppose. "Jusqu'où allez-vous?" works too. Or "Allez-vous jusqu'à [next logical destination/next city]?"

Even your "Allez-vous loin?" would be fine. Or "Allez-vous encore loin?" ou "Êtes-vous encore loin d'où vous allez?"

Thanks for confirming on "Allez-vous loin?" It was years ago, so I might be remembering the situation wrong; it was probably "Allez-vous loin?" that turned out to be the best way to say what I'd wanted to say (I think my original question might have been something else).

Doesn't "où est-ce que vous allez comme ça?" mean "where are you going like that?" In English that sounds odd, as if you're expressing disapproval of someone's choice of bike or attire (in the context of two cyclists). Does it not mean that in French?

Speaking of "où," "where are you from?" is "d'où venez-vous?", is it not? You wouldn't say "d'où êtes-vous?", right? "Where do you come from?" is another one of those constructions that sounds off in English.

[Dengler Avenue]

I can answer the last question: Yep you need to use the verb "venir" when you ask where someone's from, i.e. Tu viens d'où? If I end up talking with someone, I will probably ask it like that just because it's much easier for me to say. (Edit: Technically it should be D'où venez-vous but again I'm just being informal. I guess this is what happens when I learn my French from standup comedy shows.)

=====

By the way, I just finished replying someone's comment in French. It was harder than I thought and it took longer than I expected. I spent 10+ minutes on it...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Thanks for confirming on "Allez-vous loin?" It was years ago, so I might be remembering the situation wrong; it was probably "Allez-vous loin?" that turned out to be the best way to say what I'd wanted to say (I think my original question might have been something else).

Doesn't "où est-ce que vous allez comme ça?" mean "where are you going like that?" In English that sounds odd, as if you're expressing disapproval of someone's choice of bike or attire (in the context of two cyclists). Does it not mean that in French?

I can see why you'd think that, but no, it's more in a sense akin to "so where are you going on this fine day, good sir?" versus simply "where are you going?". Just sounds more casual and less like an interrogating.

Speaking of "où," "where are you from?" is "d'où venez-vous?", is it not? You wouldn't say "d'où êtes-vous?", right? "Where do you come from?" is another one of those constructions that sounds off in English.

Often when you guys ask questions I'm torn, because actual proper French and French-that-gets-you-understood-by-the-average-Quebec-Joe-Six-Pack are not the same thing, and there's a valid argument to be made for avoiding teaching you either.

In proper French, both "d'où venez-vous?" and "d'où êtes-vous?" are perfectly correct, and mean respectively "where (/ which way) are you coming from (right now)?" and "where are you from / where do you live?" (FYI, the latter being just as unclear in French as in English when it comes to the correct answer being "I'm from China/I'm from Markham" when it's both at the same time)

But "d'où venez-vous?" can also be understood (depending on context) as "where are you from?"

Instead, "d'où arrivez-vous?" is a very unambiguous way to inquire about someone's starting point. Though it's weird to ask that to someone who's still traveling, if you're pedaling side by side with another cyclist. But if you're stopped and someone arrives where you are, it's correct to ask that.

[vid]

What exactly is going on in the phrase "qu'est-ce que c'est"?

When you break it down it's "what's-that what that's" and it sounds really redundant. I've always had difficulty accepting its validity. Dans la salle francaise, I would remember how to spell it correctly by saying "quest see queue sest".

[lio45]

Originally Posted by vid

What exactly is going on in the phrase "qu'est-ce que c'est"?

When you break it down it's "what's-that what that's" and it sounds really redundant. I've always had difficulty accepting its validity. Dans la salle francaise, I would remember how to spell it correctly by saying "quest see queue sest".

That's because it is redundant. In proper French, it's "qu'est-ce?"

(Direct English equivalent: "What is that?")

(Same dilemma I mentioned earlier; proper French or Joe Six Pack Qc-French.)

For even more redundancy, try "qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?"

(literal translation "what is it that it is, that?")

a.k.a., in Quebec everyday speech, "kessé ça?"



If you were to say the longer versions ("mais qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?") it would be a way to express shock/surprise. The English equivalent would be something like "but... what the Fuck... is... that?!?!?" said by your boss upon arriving and seeing the mess you just did. Takes more time to say than "what's that?", but that's deliberate and for a reason.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by lio45

For even more redundancy, try "qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?"

(literal translation "what is it that it is, that?")

a.k.a., in Quebec everyday speech, "kessé ça?"

That is disgustingly long... In what context do people say "kessé ça?" then?

[vid]

Originally Posted by lio45

That's because it is redundant. In proper French, it's "qu'est-ce?"

(Direct English equivalent: "What is that?")

(Same dilemma I mentioned earlier; proper French or Joe Six Pack Qc-French.)

For even more redundancy, try "qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?"

(literal translation "what is it that it is, that?")

a.k.a., in Quebec everyday speech, "kessé ça?"



If you were to say the longer versions ("mais qu'est-ce que c'est que ça?") it would be a way to express shock/surprise. The English equivalent would be something like "but... what the Fuck... is... that?!?!?" said by your boss upon arriving and seeing the mess you just did. Takes more time to say than "what's that?", but that's deliberate and for a reason.

Brilliant! We can't do this in English. "What is it that it is what that" makes no sense.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

That is disgustingly long... In what context do people say "kessé ça?" then?

In all contexts. It's (the contracted everyday speech form) standard way of saying "what's that?", so the possible applications are many.

(Literally, it's more accurately translated by something like "whazdat?". Not rare, and general enough.)

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by lio45

In all contexts. It's (the contracted everyday speech form) standard way of saying "what's that?", so the possible applications are many.

(Literally, it's more accurately translated by something like "whazdat?". Not rare, and general enough.)

Now I will look out for that when I watch Québecois comedy shows. I already figured tsé out.