Perimeter Highway | Winnipeg

[esquire]

Originally Posted by plrh

I don't understand how you could mess up a detail like that. I can't order a metre of concrete without a mix design statement submitted, on projects where it doesn't really matter, nevermind a bridge.

Ha. I had the City ragging on me for years over a longstanding deck railing that was 5 inches too short and posed no threat to anyone. But substandard bridge construction, whatevs, NBD

[CoryB]

Had my first drive through the new 59/101 over the weekend. Not being a traffic engineer I cannot say professionally but from a lay person perspective that they needed to use extensive guard rails on some of the ramps seems to point towards possible design issues. I know similar guard rails might be common elsewhere but that are almost unused here to keep traffic exiting the wrong side of a ramp for example.

[esquire]

^ What do you mean keeping traffic from exiting on the wrong side of a ramp? I'm having a hard time visualizing this.

[bomberjet]

Definitely no design issues. We're just not used to having proper infrastructure.

[Phil’s neighbour]

I like the upgrade, but I don’t see why the speed limit reduces to 70 heading to 59 north from eastbound 101. The gentle curve in that roadway could easily accommodate the 80+ that you merge into on 59. But it’s not nearly as bad as the 50 ramp limit going from northbound Main onto east 101. That one is a sick joke. Do it at that speed and you almost guarantee a merging disaster.

Originally Posted by CoryB

Had my first drive through the new 59/101 over the weekend. Not being a traffic engineer I cannot say professionally but from a lay person perspective that they needed to use extensive guard rails on some of the ramps seems to point towards possible design issues. I know similar guard rails might be common elsewhere but that are almost unused here to keep traffic exiting the wrong side of a ramp for example.

[MG922]

Regarding the south perimeter bridge, yes it was re-done recently. And there is quite a story about how the deck design came to be what it ended up being. There was MI, the private consultant, and some legal *fun*. Not my place to tell that story.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ What do you mean keeping traffic from exiting on the wrong side of a ramp? I'm having a hard time visualizing this.

I am not sure the exact opposite flow but if you are going NB 59 to WB 101 there is a guardrail on the left ramp side so you basically don't accidentally go off the left hand side of the road and land literally on top of the traffic flow on the other side going in the "opposite" direction. Usually ramps here have such wide clearance areas that the overruns are basically green spaces. It also felt like that ramp was a little on the tight side compared with something like CCW and that was with a passenger vehicle. A commercial truck with a 53' trailer could be a lot more interesting and could call back to some of the issues that were reported with similar traffic flows in the past.

[bomberjet]

Ah, I see what you're saying. CCW is similar I think, with the guard rails in between.

That NB to WB movement should've had a fly-over like the EB to NB movement. I know we talked about this recently. But that's a heavily travelled route. People heading WB on 101 from Lag. Vice versa people heading EB to SB have the long right turn ramp so no issues there.

[tvor202]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I am not sure the exact opposite flow but if you are going NB 59 to WB 101 there is a guardrail on the left ramp side so you basically don't accidentally go off the left hand side of the road and land literally on top of the traffic flow on the other side going in the "opposite" direction. Usually ramps here have such wide clearance areas that the overruns are basically green spaces. It also felt like that ramp was a little on the tight side compared with something like CCW and that was with a passenger vehicle. A commercial truck with a 53' trailer could be a lot more interesting and could call back to some of the issues that were reported with similar traffic flows in the past.

I thought the same thing, not to mention it seems like quite the climb up that ramp... might be interesting in the winter.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by Phil’s neighbour

I like the upgrade, but I don’t see why the speed limit reduces to 70 heading to 59 north from eastbound 101. The gentle curve in that roadway could easily accommodate the 80+ that you merge into on 59. But it’s not nearly as bad as the 50 ramp limit going from northbound Main onto east 101. That one is a sick joke. Do it at that speed and you almost guarantee a merging disaster.

You do realize that the orange speed signs indicate recommended maximum speed, not the speed limit, right? If I'm hauling my travel trailer, I absolutely adhere to those. Otherwise, I go as fast as is comfortable, but not exceeding the actual speed limit.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Had my first drive through the new 59/101 over the weekend. Not being a traffic engineer I cannot say professionally but from a lay person perspective that they needed to use extensive guard rails on some of the ramps seems to point towards possible design issues. I know similar guard rails might be common elsewhere but that are almost unused here to keep traffic exiting the wrong side of a ramp for example.

Notice how they put a concrete barricade on the southbound lanes to separate traffic strictly going south and traffic turning off to the right to go east. People here are confounded by proper infrastructure found in the ROTW!

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Ah, I see what you're saying. CCW is similar I think, with the guard rails in between.

The only guard rails in CCW are to keep traffic from leaving the sides of bridges. There is not a situation where sliding off or otherwise leaving the right side of a ramp would land you into a lane of traffic moving the opposite direction. I am pretty sure there isn't anywhere in Winnipeg that has that same design issue as most places use undeveloped space (green space) to capture accidental overruns.

Originally Posted by tvor202

I thought the same thing, not to mention it seems like quite the climb up that ramp... might be interesting in the winter.

I was thinking the same thing. It also seems like they could be extending that guard rail further towards the entry point of the ramp as it seemed like it might start too late to catch all the possible problematic incidents.

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Notice how they put a concrete barricade on the southbound lanes to separate traffic strictly going south and traffic turning off to the right to go east. People here are confounded by proper infrastructure found in the ROTW!

I didn't notice that as I didn't hit that path of travel. Perhaps if I ever make it out to Oak Bank I will come back into Winnipeg that way to check it out.

Depending on how the flow is setup I could understand how it might be confusing to people. For example I came across a route that used an exit on the left hand side for a situation similar to SB to EB turn at 59/101. Left hand exits are definitely not common in North America and throw people off when they aren't expecting them as exits are normally on the right hand side regardless of the future direction of travel.

[bomberjet]

I'll be taking a drive through 59/101 this weekend. This is what 101 at CCW has. But that's separating the lanes approaching the bridge.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89749...7i13312!8i6656

In other news, throne speech is today starting at about 1:30. It's expected some highway/infrastructure announcements will be made. We'll see.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Depending on how the flow is setup I could understand how it might be confusing to people. For example I came across a route that used an exit on the left hand side for a situation similar to SB to EB turn at 59/101. Left hand exits are definitely not common in North America and throw people off when they aren't expecting them as exits are normally on the right hand side regardless of the future direction of travel.

They aren't uncommon either, but in other places they tend to be well marked with overhead signs indicating left hand exit ahead, that kind of thing. The few that we have in Winnipeg are not particularly well signed and rely on the usual "absolutely everyone on this road is from Winnipeg and already knows" philosophy of directional signage.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I'll be taking a drive through 59/101 this weekend. This is what 101 at CCW has. But that's separating the lanes approaching the bridge.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89749...7i13312!8i6656

In other news, throne speech is today starting at about 1:30. It's expected some highway/infrastructure announcements will be made. We'll see.

When is the next provincial election??

[bomberjet]

https://www.gov.mb.ca/thronespeech/
https://www.gov.mb.ca/asset_library/...peech_2018.pdf

Never mind...

I also don't understand how everything is "God bless this and that" in politics. Shut that stuff down ASAP.

God save the Queen? What is she in trouble? Does she need to go to hospital?

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

When is the next provincial election??

Just under 2 years time. Latest polling has the PC's in the mid low 40's, NDP high 20's, Liberal high teens.

[Dengler Avenue]

The whole thing looks pretty vague to me.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The whole thing looks pretty vague to me.

Throne speeches generally are.

As for polling, Pallister could show up to question period in meth psychosis and he'd still get re-elected. The NDP is still such a basketcase right now there is no way that they will seriously challenge the PCs next time out.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by esquire

Throne speeches generally are.

As for polling, Pallister could show up to question period in meth psychosis and he'd still get re-elected. The NDP is still such a basketcase right now there is no way that they will seriously challenge the PCs next time out.

We'll probably hear some juicy infrastructure (read: interchanges) election promises in 2020 as that is the election year and when the South Perimeter Study is planned to be completed. With that study they should have shovel-ready designs for Hwy 3/100 and St Mary's/100.

The study timeline on the MI website says they should be asking public opinion on different designs throughout 2019 so we'll probably have some general ideas of what is to come next year.