HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 2:42 PM
cheswick's Avatar
cheswick cheswick is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Kildonan
Posts: 2,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
The Pump House is DEAD. No extension granted. Farmers Market planned around the structure.

Now let's all move on...
Is the farmers market thing actually happening? Cause I've heard the farmers market rpoposal in regards to the pumphouse for years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2014, 10:51 PM
Labroco's Avatar
Labroco Labroco is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 767
Wait a day or two...
It will all come out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 2:12 PM
h0twired's Avatar
h0twired h0twired is offline
Dynamic Positivity!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,914
I hate the fact that there is still a requirement to retain the old mechanical systems in the building. This is what is ultimately killing any development potential for the site.

Pull out some of the equipment (scrap the rest), take a picture of the interior of the building and put all on display at the Manitoba Museum.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 3:01 PM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 13,440
the heritage value of the building is the machinery. If you remove that you might as well just remove the entire building.

Heritage is not just facades.

disappointing to hear the project has failed. Not surprising but disappointing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 3:26 PM
beatlesque's Avatar
beatlesque beatlesque is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Various places
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
the heritage value of the building is the machinery. If you remove that you might as well just remove the entire building.

Heritage is not just facades.

disappointing to hear the project has failed. Not surprising but disappointing.
I agree with the general idea (as with most of your opinions); however, don't agree here re all or nothing. If the outer shell could be preserved, it's way better than nothing. Heritage is not just facades, but facades are part of heritage.

Last edited by beatlesque; Jul 25, 2014 at 3:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 3:49 PM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 13,440
I don't think so. If you scrap the interior, there is no point in saving the facades. If the point is to develop the site as cheaply and easily as possible, then the facades are a hindrance. They are nothing special. If finding a way to develop the site as quickly and easily as possible is the goal, demolish it.

If we are going out of our way to save any part of the building, we are doing it for the heritage value. If history is what we feel makes it important to save then we need to save the part of history that is important, the part that defines the building and makes it different from any other.

If we decide the interior is not worth saving then the exterior isn't either. It is 1% of the historic value and potential interest of the building. If you want to get rid of the 99%, might as well make it easy and start new.

the facades are unimportant. They are non descript. They are not worth saving. Save what is important or don't bother.

Last edited by trueviking; Jul 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 3:54 PM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 13,440
my hope is that it is left for now. Don't rush to demolish. The building has been empty for a long time, but redevelopment of the area is a new phenomenon. Who knows what Winnipeg will be in 10 years. This kind of place has been redeveloped successfully in many cities. Be patient. it is too important to just get rid of.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 4:15 PM
beatlesque's Avatar
beatlesque beatlesque is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Various places
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
I don't think so. If you scrap the interior, there is no point in saving the facades. If the point is to develop the site as cheaply and easily as possible, then the facades are a hindrance. They are nothing special. If finding a way to develop the site as quickly and easily as possible is the goal, demolish it.

It would be impossible to save the facades and remove the machines anyway. These are not small machines.

If we are going out of our way to save any part of the building, we are doing it for the heritage value. If history is what we feel makes it important to save then we need to save the part of history that is important, that part that defines the building and makes it different from any other.

If we decide the interior is not worth saving then the exterior isn't either. It is 1% of the historic value and potential interest of the building. If you want to get rid of the 99%, might as well make it easy and start new.

the facades are unimportant. They are non descript. They are not worth saving. Save what is important or don't bother.
The practical issue of getting the machinery out is obviously a primary question, and obviously will affect the rest.

However, while I'm a big fan of the buildings you're doing and the planning ideas you put forth, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think these facades are unimportant or nondescript. I agree with your words below; while I guess I may be misinterpreting them for this building, I take the general concept to apply to this structure. I also hope they don't rush to demolish; WPG can't afford to lose buildings like this and would regret it.

"As an example, the demolition of the small, 90-year-old Grain Exchange Annex to create a loading zone for the adjacent building may seem to be an insignificant loss. Like the old collection of hockey cards, however, discarding the lesser-known players may leave the Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe cards, but the complete collection is lost, becoming significantly less valuable as a whole….

The cohesive nature of the Exchange is what makes it significant and is the very reason for its National Historic Site designation. Its future depends on a refocused commitment from all levels to search for creative solutions to redevelopment, emphasizing the preservation of all heritage buildings in the district while ensuring that new projects sensitively bridge the gaps without diminishing its overall character."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 4:22 PM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
the heritage value of the building is the machinery. If you remove that you might as well just remove the entire building.

Heritage is not just facades.

disappointing to hear the project has failed. Not surprising but disappointing.
This project isn't dead from what I understand.

Don't forget, the city's new Live Downtown(!) program that applies to everything within the Downtown Zoning By-Law gives a whole new set of incentives and subsidies. Be patient...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 4:50 PM
headhorse headhorse is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,743
I'm fairly certain this isn't dead..

Last edited by headhorse; Jul 25, 2014 at 6:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 5:23 PM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 13,440
ha ha...damn you internet!

the grain exchange annex and the pumphouse are very different buildings....the facades were 99% of the annex's heritage value. For the pumphouse the facades are 1% of what makes that building special.

yeah we could save the facades, why not....that's nice, but losing 99% of what makes it special is nothing to accept. Its better than nothing but a massive loss. That isn't the case with buildings like the annex. losing the interior wouldn't have mattered.

we have to evaluate why we care about preserving buildings. It is not always only about the way it looks walking or driving by. We have to consider what makes each important. Why have heritage preservation at all? facades are not the only heritage.

its like saving the floor mats from a Porsche 911...or saving the exterior columns of a main street bank and destroying the grand banking hall....sure the columns are better than nothing, but what has been saved?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 5:32 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 13,704
oh yay, farmers market... How invigorating to the area. That area will be hoping in no time now that another farmers market is located downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 5:39 PM
1ajs's Avatar
1ajs 1ajs is online now
ʇɥƃıuʞ -*ʞpʇ*-
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: lynn lake
Posts: 25,831
labroco is not some random goofy
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 6:04 PM
beatlesque's Avatar
beatlesque beatlesque is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Various places
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
ha ha...damn you internet!

the grain exchange annex and the pumphouse are very different buildings....the facades were 99% of the annex's heritage value. For the pumphouse the facades are 1% of what makes that building special.

yeah we could save the facades, why not....that's nice, but losing 99% of what makes it special is nothing to accept. Its better than nothing but a massive loss. That isn't the case with buildings like the annex. losing the interior wouldn't have mattered.

we have to evaluate why we care about preserving buildings. It is not always only about the way it looks walking or driving by. We have to consider what makes each important. Why have heritage preservation at all? facades are not the only heritage.

its like saving the floor mats from a Porsche 911...or saving the exterior columns of a main street bank and destroying the grand banking hall....sure the columns are better than nothing, but what has been saved?
I agree that the ideal would be to save it all, and that it is not ideal to have to accept the loss you describe. But as you say, the facades are 'better than nothing.' I hope an architect such as yourself can come in with a 'creative solution for redevelopment' to avert this beautiful building being taken down.

You talk about the facades being 1% of the value, and the interior functionality being 99%, in a sort of a conceptual ideal of heritage value. And yet elsewhere, you said something which strikes me differently - that these facades are in fact not 'unimportant' and 'nondescript', and that the interior is essentially utilitarian:

"Closed in 1986, the pumping station's elegant, rhythmic facade and double gable roofline serve as a reminder that the utilitarian building once stood as a pavilion in Victoria Park, Winnipeg's first municipal green space and ground zero for the 1919 General Strike."

So in a sense, it is not just a 'nice' thing to do (I don't think you're being sarcastic there as I believe you value heritage in all its forms, although I'm surprised you're sticking so resolutely to a hardline all-or-nothing position).

In fact, in the same column you go on to say:

"The significant heritage asset of most buildings in the Exchange District is their character on the street, making their interiors easy to redevelop."

In fairness, you add:

"The challenge of finding a new use for the pumping station is that without maintaining the inspiring industrial character of its interior, the historic value and redevelopment potential is lost. Effectively creating usable interior floor space while maintaining the building's unique character has been such a significant design challenge and economic barrier that the building has remained empty nearly two decades."

So it has remained empty for nearly two decades and now faces the prospect of demolition because of that challenge. Rather than having all or nothing, here I would argue for something:

"Buildings such as the pumping station are the reason the Exchange District is seeing such significant economic growth. The architectural character of the neighbourhood is an attractive catalyst to residential development, which makes its preservation critical to continuing prosperity in the area."

I agree with you here when you mention how The Forks was able to be revitalized through a repurposing - in other words, the market buildings at the Forks still had and have value, and even greater value than before arguably, even though they know longer serve their original, historically pure purpose of holding railroad junk (assuming that's what they did).

These are smart words in terms of precedents, I feel:

"When looking at The Forks as a precedent, it is easy to appreciate that the site's spirit and character could only have been realized through the redevelopment of the existing industrial buildings. The Forks would not be the same had the old railway repair shops and storage buildings been demolished and replaced with new structures."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #115  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 6:31 PM
Cyro's Avatar
Cyro Cyro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
labroco is not some random goofy
I don't believe any one has questioned the integrity of this particular poster in any way?
You may see it differently.

When a poster decides to let the cat out of the bag on information they may be privy to and make a statement as below, Bolded:

DEAD, No extension Granted, Farmers Market is the new plan, Why can't posters with other views, possibly aware of other information comment with their opinions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
The Pump House is DEAD. No extension granted. Farmers Market planned around the structure.

Now let's all move on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
Wait a day or two...
It will all come out.
Let's wait the day or two the poster has alluded too before we pass any sort of judgement on whether this proposal is dead and to move on to the Farmers Market he /she has said will take it's place? We could just close the thread down as cancelled now?
__________________
♥ ♥
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #116  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 6:40 PM
Flatland Metropolis's Avatar
Flatland Metropolis Flatland Metropolis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East Kildonan, Winnipeg
Posts: 264
This project was easily approved because it was so unlikely to go ahead it cost city hall nothing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #117  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 7:06 PM
Cyro's Avatar
Cyro Cyro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatland Metropolis View Post
This project was easily approved because it was so unlikely to go ahead it cost city hall nothing.

I can see the logic in this post at this point in time when it comes to City Hall.
__________________
♥ ♥
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 8:46 PM
h0twired's Avatar
h0twired h0twired is offline
Dynamic Positivity!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
the heritage value of the building is the machinery. If you remove that you might as well just remove the entire building.
I am fine with that too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 1:01 AM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 13,440
i dont really see why there is any pressure to demolish the pump house. There are many many empty lots that can be developed before this one has to go. How about the massive parking lots near the ballpark, or the giant one on Bannatyne....there are so many empty spaces to develop, why is this one burning a hole in our pocket.....If we are worried about how waterfront drive looks, why not start with the green garbage can factory next door, or the tin shed with the floor hockey rink in it?....

I say board it up and save it for the next generation...hopefully the economics will change one day....once its gone its gone...what's the rush.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #120  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 1:43 AM
1ajs's Avatar
1ajs 1ajs is online now
ʇɥƃıuʞ -*ʞpʇ*-
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: lynn lake
Posts: 25,831
the pump house needs a new roof and drainage
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:51 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.