The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[ErickMontreal]

All photos on this page are originals by & copyrighted by Jim Steinhart

http://www.travelphotobase.com/s/NBJ.HTM

[alps]

Nice photos!! Saint John is a beautiful city.

[MTL Lucas]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat

Ok, Enterprise SJ said "Regional catchment and commuter population of 175,000" but Downtown Moncton inc. said "Greater Moncton market population: 190,000" So I dunno where you get that from, and Moncton also has 1.4 million people within a 2 and 1/2 hour drive.

1. http://www.enterprisesj.com/en/index.php?id=14
2. http://downtownmoncton.nb.ca/dmci.html

As far as I can see these are two different pieces of information -

Saint John regional catchment and commuter population of 175,000 is describing Saint John´s status as the commuting centre of a connurbation where the daytime in-city population increases by approximately 52,000 people (workers, students, etc.,). That information is available here http://www.saintjohntransit.com/index.php?id=5

Greater Moncton market population: 190,000 seems to focus on people drawn to Moncton in the immediate area for shopping and services, not necessarily commuting for work or school.

A market population for Saint John would be around, if not superior to, 190,000 as you´d include the thousands of people who live along the coast from Lepreau through to Saint Stephen (Saint George, Saint Andrew´s, etc.,), everything south of Sussex and everything from Welsford down.

I´m also relatively certain a regional catchment and commuter population would be smaller for Moncton as it is not so clearly dominant in its region. Places like Shediac, Sackville, Amherst and other essentially self sustaining municipalities are surely counted in the Market figure but could not be meaningfully counted in the Commuter basin figure.

As for Moncton having 1.4 million people within a 2 1/2 hour drive - that is good for them, but unrelated to what area has the largest immediate client population.

[ErickMontreal]

Saint John Port shows strong gains

January 30, 2007

The Saint John Port Authority announced today that cargo at its facilities experienced a 22% increase over the previous year from 1.4 million tonnes in 2005 to 1.7 million tonnes in 2006.

Port Authority facilities experienced strong gains in traditional break bulk and dry bulk cargo sectors with the return of cargo from the Nackawic mill in the first quarter and dramatic increases at the recyclable metals operation (Maritime Metals Inc). Potash and salt, a staple of port cargo, had increases in 2006 with stronger markets in the second quarter forestalling a planned inventory shutdown. The reintroduction of sugar import at the Port late in 2006 will continue to provide diversification of cargo into 2007.

The Port also experienced gains in movement of project cargo with large pieces of the former dry dock being shipped to India via Lower Cove in late April and with movement of construction equipment to the off shore development of the LNG terminal. It is predicted that energy sector developments will continue to have positive impact on movement of cargo at the Port of Saint John.

Rodney Container Terminal displayed a slight decrease from 287,000 tonnes to 259,000 tonnes after four years of marginal increases. This was a direct result of temporary reductions in shipments of peat moss at the beginning of last year. Increasing container business remains a high priority for the Port Authority in the coming year.

The highly visible cruise sector was strong once again in 2006 with close to 88,000 guests on 34 ships, although passenger count was reduced by 2,000 passengers over the previous year the season was successful and included a new cruise line calling the Port (Crystal Cruises) and two memorable calls of the majestic Queen Mary 2. Early in the year a strategic marketing partnership was formed between the private sector, the City of Saint John, the Province of New Brunswick and the Port Authority to jointly market this destination. The success of their efforts was realized early in the 2006 season but will continue to be even more strongly felt in 2007 when the Port of Saint John will welcome close to 140,000 cruise visitors and 56,000 crew during 55 ship calls. Prospects in the cruise industry continue to be extremely encouraging.

In 2007 the Saint John Port Authority will concentrate business development efforts on increasing marine activity on cargo and cruise fronts and developing diversified affiliated business opportunities for the Port of Saint John.

By focusing on the unique niche capabilities of this Port, and its central location in the region, the Port of Saint John will be established and promoted as the Atlantic Canadian centre of marine activity linking North America to the world. In achievement of this vision for the Port, the Saint John Port Authority will strive to heighten awareness of the Port on all levels—regional, national and international.

The Port of Saint John, New Brunswick’s largest and most diverse marine gateway, is a bulk and break bulk port with the capacity to handle containers and is the second busiest port of call for cruise ships operating in Atlantic Canada.

The Port is a commercially viable, self-sufficient business enterprise and a cornerstone of the local economy. It is a critical component of the region’s transportation infrastructure essential to many of New Brunswick’s major industries engaged in international trade and provides deep-water, ice-free access to shipping year round.

Originally Posted by MTL Lucas

As far as I can see these are two different pieces of information -

Saint John regional catchment and commuter population of 175,000 is describing Saint John´s status as the commuting centre of a connurbation where the daytime in-city population increases by approximately 52,000 people (workers, students, etc.,). That information is available here http://www.saintjohntransit.com/index.php?id=5

Greater Moncton market population: 190,000 seems to focus on people drawn to Moncton in the immediate area for shopping and services, not necessarily commuting for work or school.

A market population for Saint John would be around, if not superior to, 190,000 as you´d include the thousands of people who live along the coast from Lepreau through to Saint Stephen (Saint George, Saint Andrew´s, etc.,), everything south of Sussex and everything from Welsford down.

I´m also relatively certain a regional catchment and commuter population would be smaller for Moncton as it is not so clearly dominant in its region. Places like Shediac, Sackville, Amherst and other essentially self sustaining municipalities are surely counted in the Market figure but could not be meaningfully counted in the Commuter basin figure.

As for Moncton having 1.4 million people within a 2 1/2 hour drive - that is good for them, but unrelated to what area has the largest immediate client population.

OKAY lol lets try something different, this took me a while so bear with me.

So I did a little research and came up with my own population figures of possible "catchment populations" for each city, using the census data for the counties the city is in, and surrounding ones. For communities within those counties which are mainly self-sufficient I took 1/2 the population off (im assuming the other 1/2 commutes to either SJ or Moncton daily. OK lol, so lets try this, I made up some maps too to illustrate for you.

first is Saint John



For SJ I included the counties of Saint John (obviously lol), Kings, Charlotte, and Queens.

Charlotte County
27,366
-2,333 for 1/2 of St. Stephen
T 25,033

Saint John County
T 64,961

Kings County
64,208
-2,091 for 1/2 of Sussex
T 62,117

Queens County
11,862
-1,388 for 1/2 of Minto
T 10,474

TOTAL OF TOTALS
162,585

second is Moncton



For M-Town I included the Counties of Westmorland and Albert

Westmorland County
146,163
-2,680 for 1/2 of Sackville
-2446 for 1/2 of Shediac
T 141,037

Albert county
T 26,749 (basically Riverview and area)

TOTAL OF TOTALS
167,786

the difference between those two is
5,201

So I have no idea where those other people supposedly commute to SJ from...

Also notice the area I used around SJ is a lot bigger than the one around Moncton, and I didnt even mention Amherst at all. and the pop. of Alma is 290 just in case you were wondering why I didnt mention it lol.

And as for the 1.4 million thing I was just saying that, I know it had nothing to do with the current situation, its just interesting.

Also, according to Enterprise SJ the Saint John workforce is 66,700 (2004) and According to Moncton Industrial Development the Moncton workforce is 72,174 (2006) But I assume those are the number of working people living in the cities themselves, not commuters.

[Smevo]

stu, no offense, but either way you cut it, both cities are essentially the same size. This is a thread to discuss Saint John Projects, not to debate which city is bigger by a couple thousand people. Let's wait until the 2006 census for that (the most reliable comparison tool). If you would like to start a Moncton Projects thread, please do, and I know it will get a lot of response as this one did. Now if we can stick to topic, this is a really good thread to have open in this forum before city vs city stuff gets it locked.

[bluenoser]

Maybe we should start a new 'official' Moncton Projects thread, so as to have more distinction on where we can talk about the two cities. Maybe it would be even better to just turn the 'Moncton Downtown Vision' thread into the official projects thread, or something.

While I'm on the subject: Smevo, if you get the chance, what would you think about starting up a Sydney/CBRM Projects thread on this site, as in SSC? I could try but I don't think I'm right for the job.

Also, the above SJ photos don't seem to be working anymore...

[Smevo]

Sure thing bluenoser. I tried before but it didn't really get the response. I'll give it another shot though.

Changing the Moncton Downtown Vision into Moncton Projects sounds good to me, but I'm definitely not the man for the job for Moncton Projects.

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by bluenoser

Maybe we should start a new 'official' Moncton Projects thread, so as to have more distinction on where we can talk about the two cities. Maybe it would be even better to just turn the 'Moncton Downtown Vision' thread into the official projects thread, or something.

While I'm on the subject: Smevo, if you get the chance, what would you think about starting up a Sydney/CBRM Projects thread on this site, as in SSC? I could try but I don't think I'm right for the job.

Also, the above SJ photos don't seem to be working anymore...

I tried to do a thread like this for Moncton but I did not found any renderings except the 4-stories courthouse and Marriott Hotel as well. Moncton development is mainly outside of downtown. I wonder if Moncton has approved a single story Sobeys in main street ?

[MTL Lucas]

Originally Posted by Smevo

stu, no offense, but either way you cut it, both cities are essentially the same size. This is a thread to discuss Saint John Projects, not to debate which city is bigger by a couple thousand people. Let's wait until the 2006 census for that (the most reliable comparison tool). If you would like to start a Moncton Projects thread, please do, and I know it will get a lot of response as this one did. Now if we can stick to topic, this is a really good thread to have open in this forum before city vs city stuff gets it locked.

I was in the middle of typing a response when I saw your message and realized that it would in fact be a useless exercise.

We can all just wait for Census 2006 data to have a rational and up-to-date discussion on the topic.

City vs city is the SSP plague

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by MTL Lucas

I was in the middle of typing a response when I saw your message and realized that it would in fact be a useless exercise.

We can all just wait for Census 2006 data to have a rational and up-to-date discussion on the topic.

City vs city is the SSP plague

CMA data July 1

Kingston 154,971 -714
Saguenay 152,132 -382
Trois-Rivières 142,614 1,024
Saint John 125,944 -482
Thunder Bay 125,359 -845

Originally Posted by MTL Lucas

I was in the middle of typing a response when I saw your message and realized that it would in fact be a useless exercise.

We can all just wait for Census 2006 data to have a rational and up-to-date discussion on the topic.

City vs city is the SSP plague

Good idea MTL

[bluenoser]

Hey Stu, welcome by the way. It's always good to have East Coasters for discussion and we could definitely use more NBers on the board.

Thanks Bluenoser! By the way my name is Matt lol. I go to STU (st thomas university, fredericton)

[bluenoser]

Sure thing - whatever you say, Stu! Hey, is Stu short for Stuart or Stewart?


..ha, just joking, Matt.

[Smevo]

Yes, welcome to the board Matt. Didn't mean to be harsh on you earlier, I just don't want to see this thread degrade into more city vs city stuff.

Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666

I tried to do a thread like this for Moncton but I did not found any renderings except the 4-stories courthouse and Marriott Hotel as well. Moncton development is mainly outside of downtown. I wonder if Moncton has approved a single story Sobeys in main street ?

Well, there is:

- the Marriott

- the courthouse

- the stadium

- the possible convention center

- the emerson business park developments (currently building a 4 story office building) and they have a few more in the works

- the many retail developments near trinity

- the new developments on the "four corners" area on mapelton rd (hotels, malls)

- the new sobeys (yes it has been aproved) http://www.canadaeast.com/ce2/docroo...rticleID=97533

- the possible racino

- the downtown revitalization project

- the constant residential developments

- the new 47 million dollar wing of the moncton hospital (supposed to be complete in july 2007)

- possible expansion to George Dumont Hospital (for a new cath lab, which was already accepted by the province)

- new town hall in Riverview (they already put $700,000 down on it)

- a new aquatic center in Dieppe ($10-to-$12-million)

- new riverfront project in Riverview (approx $5 mil)...and I quote from the T&T "Riverview, soapery team up on Fundy Gateway project; Riverfront venture, called 'huge' boost to tourism, to open this year: developer"

- restoration of old YMCA bldg downtown

- $131 million wind farm outside moncton...I quote froim T&T:

"The farm, which will consist of 25 turbines, will be located in Kent Hills, west of Caledonia Mountain and slightly south of Prosser Brook.

Jason Edworthy of TransAlta said the $131- million construction project will result in about $4 million in spin-offs for the local economy through the contracting of local construction and engineering firms, as well as through job creation.

"Everything from road building, installation of foundations, distribution wires, transmission wires, trucking - there's a huge variety," he said."

- A new office building in the downtown area and I quote from the T&T: "A new 50,000-square-foot (4,500-square-metre) office building is in the works for War Veterans Avenue near the corner of Vaughan Harvey Boulevard. "




Im sure all this is enough to make a sticky thread. I think all the major cities in atlantic canada should have a thread. SJ, Hali, Moncton, St Johns, Fredericton, and the greater Sydney area.

yeah, no problem Smevo lol

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat

Well, there is:

- the Marriott

- the courthouse

- the stadium

- the possible convention center

- the emerson business park developments (currently building a 4 story office building) and they have a few more in the works

- the many retail developments near trinity

- the new developments on the "four corners" area on mapelton rd (hotels, malls)

- the new sobeys (yes it has been aproved) http://www.canadaeast.com/ce2/docroo...rticleID=97533

- the possible racino

- the downtown revitalization project

- the constant residential developments

- the new 47 million dollar wing of the moncton hospital (supposed to be complete in july 2007)

- possible expansion to George Dumont Hospital (for a new cath lab, which was already accepted by the province)

- new town hall in Riverview (they already put $700,000 down on it)

- a new aquatic center in Dieppe ($10-to-$12-million)

- new riverfront project in Riverview (approx $5 mil)...and I quote from the T&T "Riverview, soapery team up on Fundy Gateway project; Riverfront venture, called 'huge' boost to tourism, to open this year: developer"

- restoration of old YMCA bldg downtown

- $131 million wind farm outside moncton...I quote froim T&T:

"The farm, which will consist of 25 turbines, will be located in Kent Hills, west of Caledonia Mountain and slightly south of Prosser Brook.

Jason Edworthy of TransAlta said the $131- million construction project will result in about $4 million in spin-offs for the local economy through the contracting of local construction and engineering firms, as well as through job creation.

"Everything from road building, installation of foundations, distribution wires, transmission wires, trucking - there's a huge variety," he said."

- A new office building in the downtown area and I quote from the T&T: "A new 50,000-square-foot (4,500-square-metre) office building is in the works for War Veterans Avenue near the corner of Vaughan Harvey Boulevard. "

Wow, its great and welcome to the thread !!

In the other hand, i am not a fan of courthouse rendering and sobeys in downtown as well, both look suburban. These projects could be better in Dieppe than Moncton downtown. I mean that Moncton city council and Lord goverment as well made a huge mistake when they rejected "Assumption Life" plan in 2005. The only thing Verdiroc has done is a call-center that could fit in suburban too. No offence for Moncton, i like moncton too !