Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[crocket]

Originally Posted by drew

Sorry, no brick/stone (real stone, not prairie stone or that glue-on shit) is the heaviest. Certainly orders of magnitude heavier than stucco, wood siding, the pre-finished wood/vinyl/cement board siding etc.
And yes it is more complicated.

Sorry no, but vinyl, stucco and other cheap materials are indeed lighter, but they are not great design. In fact, they aren't even options for that neighborhood. I never said pre finished wood wasn't lighter, it's just that brick, stone, glass, concrete are standard finishes on condo and other commercial buildings. I think vinyl is for super cheap construction in the suburbs. I can't believe you're even suggesting it. You want to sell wood buildings with fake wood siding, in a historical district downtown. That's insane.

[Urban recluse]

We need plenty of high end homes in this area; the higher the incomes, the more businesses will be attracted to the vicinity.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

We need plenty of high end homes in this area; the higher the incomes, the more businesses will be attracted to the vicinity.

majority of Waterfront drive is "high end" condo's and I don't see a lot of business swarming around them

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by crocket

You can definitely build downtown without government money.

name one downtown project that has been built without government support in the last 20 years.

residential in particular is impossible. Not a single unit has been built in downtown over the last 10 years without a TIFF....all the proposed projects right now are getting grants.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

majority of Waterfront drive is "high end" condo's and I don't see a lot of business swarming around them

Waterfront is a start but I wouldn't call them "high end," more mid level. And there are lots of businesses and restaurants emerging in that area, plus obviously most really big firms are downtown for work. Winnipeg has a major shortage of mid to higher end condos in the whole city.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

majority of Waterfront drive is "high end" condo's and I don't see a lot of business swarming around them

They are a...good start, but it all comes down to critical mass.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by trueviking

name one downtown project that has been built without government support in the last 20 years.

residential in particular is impossible. Not a single unit has been built in downtown over the last 10 years without a TIFF....all the proposed projects right now are getting grants.

I would like to think this location would not need TIF. TIF should be utilized in areas which are blighted, which covers many parts of downtown, but I would say the Forks is not one of them.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

I would like to think this location would not need TIF. TIF should be utilized in areas which are blighted, which covers many parts of downtown, but I would say the Forks is not one of them.

I am being a little tongue-in-cheek here but there are few higher profile "blighted" locations in downtown than the 2 massive gravel surface parking wastelands across from the City's crown jewel - The Forks.

[trueviking]

TIF is being used to build the public space, not as a specific grant to developers....remains to be seen if the rents/sales have a high enough premium at the forks to make the economics work....let's hope so.

for other residential development in the downtown, the TIF is their profit...without it the projects are not profitable....so is being at the forks worth $30-$40,000 more per unit than elsewhere downtown?...that's generally what the subsidy has been.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Biff

I am being a little tongue-in-cheek here but there are few higher profile "blighted" locations in downtown than the 2 massive gravel surface parking wastelands across from the City's crown jewel - The Forks.

But it will be much, much easier attracting people (especially those who could afford to pay higher asking prices for the units in the buildings many of us want to see constructed of brick, etc) to live here than Princess & Logan, Argyle & Heaton, George Street, or the plethora of other areas around the downtown needing revitalization and density.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

But it will be much, much easier attracting people (especially those who could afford to pay higher asking prices for the units in the buildings many of us want to see constructed of brick, etc) to live here than Princess & Logan, Argyle & Heaton, George Street, or the plethora of other areas around the downtown needing revitalization and density.

I wonder who the target market for The Forks will be? I'm thinking that hardcore urbanistas might be more interested in established urban neighbourhoods like the Exchange District/Waterfront Drive (for the downtown feel) or Osborne Village (for the urban neighbourhood feel).

The Forks is kind of an odd duck in that it's at the heart of the city but it still feels somewhat set apart from the rest of downtown.

[bomberjet]

One of the goals is to better integrate the new neighbourhood with the rest of downtown west of the tracks. By utilizing the union station access point and creating new, hip, urban access points elsewhere.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

I wonder who the target market for The Forks will be? I'm thinking that hardcore urbanistas might be more interested in established urban neighbourhoods like the Exchange District/Waterfront Drive (for the downtown feel) or Osborne Village (for the urban neighbourhood feel).

The Forks is kind of an odd duck in that it's at the heart of the city but it still feels somewhat set apart from the rest of downtown.

target market is diversity...part of the reason smaller buildings was attractive....can offer a variation in rents...hope is for everything from affordable to student to high end.

[Cyro]

^ any idea, when we'll see the first projects begin moving forward, 2 years? longer..

[drew]

Originally Posted by crocket

Sorry no, but vinyl, stucco and other cheap materials are indeed lighter, but they are not great design. In fact, they aren't even options for that neighborhood. I never said pre finished wood wasn't lighter, it's just that brick, stone, glass, concrete are standard finishes on condo and other commercial buildings. I think vinyl is for super cheap construction in the suburbs. I can't believe you're even suggesting it. You want to sell wood buildings with fake wood siding, in a historical district downtown. That's insane.

I am not suggesting using it - just suggesting demanding high price finishes on what are likely shoe-string budgets means the developers will need to reimbursed somehow. I.e. public money. That's it. Pretty costs money. Trust me, I want brick too.

[bomberjet]

IMO, if we're subsidizing any developments, it should be this one. Putting up some crappy buildings at the Forks would be such an embarrassment. What's supposed to be a national and international attraction, having rinky dink cheap buildings is not right.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by drew

I am not suggesting using it - just suggesting demanding high price finishes on what are likely shoe-string budgets means the developers will need to reimbursed somehow. I.e. public money. That's it. Pretty costs money. Trust me, I want brick too.

Glad we agree on that. The developer makes money selling the units, the budget coincides with the scope of the project. Who said they are shoestring budgets? If you're planning on building a higher-end building, the units will be priced accordingly. Can you name a residential (market) condo building recently that was built with public money? That sounds insane.

[crocket]

Originally Posted by trueviking

TIF is being used to build the public space, not as a specific grant to developers....remains to be seen if the rents/sales have a high enough premium at the forks to make the economics work....let's hope so.

for other residential development in the downtown, the TIF is their profit...without it the projects are not profitable....so is being at the forks worth $30-$40,000 more per unit than elsewhere downtown?...that's generally what the subsidy has been.

Did Dcondo receive public money? SkyCity? Any general market condos recently?

Prices for units depends on location, fit and finish, features and amenities. Concrete construction, high ceilings, nice finishing's and appliances garner more money on the market.

TIF can be utilized but is not a profit center, shouldn't be anyway.

[Cyro]

Reg: residential incentives. This is not new information but worth a look to understand how much public money is being used to created incentives for developers, more than most realize..

https://www.ida-downtown.org/eweb/do...treVenture.pdf

[crocket]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Reg: residential incentives. This is not new information but worth a look to understand how much public money is being used to created incentives for developers, more than most realize..

https://www.ida-downtown.org/eweb/do...treVenture.pdf

Ya, TIF is a deferral program but developers can build whatever product level they want. There was an assumption by others that there was a "shoestring budget" for projects at the Forks and you can't build without public money which are both untrue and unfounded.