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  #101  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2014, 3:01 PM
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  #102  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2014, 3:37 PM
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2014, 6:42 AM
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I am really surprised that this area hasn't developed into a high density neighbourhood since the 90's.

Osborne street is a HOT spot in the city. People I speak with that aren't from Winnipeg (but visited) like Osborne. The nightlife in Winnipeg is on Osborne and Corydon; the suburbanites flock there on the weekends so it's kind of surprising that Winnipeg hasn't decided to do any development in those areas.

They could be legitimate tourist attractions... Right now they're just nice areas to visit.
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2014, 2:39 PM
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I am really surprised that this area hasn't developed into a high density neighbourhood since the 90's.
I'm not sure what you mean. I think this area is very high density by any standards. I'm not sure if anyone has done the calculations or rankings, but according to media reports, it's one of the most dense neighbourhoods in Western Canada. There are 8,000 people living in a 231-acre area.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...hood-1.1266733

And I would think it has gradually become more dense since the 1990s, although there haven't been any new towers built in the area since the 80s. Still, there have been a number of new 3-5 story buildings replacing vacant lots or single family dwellings in this area. This has definitely kept the density up.
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2014, 4:57 PM
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I am really surprised that this area hasn't developed into a high density neighbourhood since the 90's.

Osborne street is a HOT spot in the city. People I speak with that aren't from Winnipeg (but visited) like Osborne. The nightlife in Winnipeg is on Osborne and Corydon; the suburbanites flock there on the weekends so it's kind of surprising that Winnipeg hasn't decided to do any development in those areas.

They could be legitimate tourist attractions... Right now they're just nice areas to visit.
It is a dense neighborhood and no thanks to the tourists. Suburbanites are annoying enough.
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  #106  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2014, 6:24 PM
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It is a dense neighborhood and no thanks to the tourists. Suburbanites are annoying enough.
I should rephrase; it's not as dense as it should be. It's obviously a very nice area and dense I suppose (for Winnipeg standards) but I can see the area building up even more than it is. I'm just saying that the areas can do better and that it's a little shocking to see an area with high retail demands go to waste.

Watch yourself, those "annoying suburbanites" contribute to the areas' economy and liveliness. Osborne and Corydon are one of the only reasons suburbanites go downtown. Don't get your suspenders in a knot because people from different areas of the city legitimately enjoy Osborne and Corydon. It's a good thing that there is some movement between Winnipeg's suburbs and they contribute to the area's economy .

Authentic City: Maybe it's a personal thing I have but I don't think that Osborne (disclaimer: although a nice area) holds a candle to Gastown or Queen Street. Winnipeg is a different city but it can hold itself to similar standards that the other major cities hold themselves to.
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  #107  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2014, 8:25 PM
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Authentic City: Maybe it's a personal thing I have but I don't think that Osborne (disclaimer: although a nice area) holds a candle to Gastown or Queen Street. Winnipeg is a different city but it "can" hold itself to similar standards that the other major cities hold themselves to.
Can you clarify the the word in quotation marks in the bolded sentence. If it's can or can't. I assume can't. Thx

It's just odd that your comparing 2 areas in Winnipeg(Osborne/Crescentwood), to 2 of the largest urban centers in the country, Gastown/Queen, Van/TO. Wpg. holds it's weight quite well compared to the mass of humanity in the other locations you mentioned and if someone moved to one of these locations, I wouldn't be surpised they felt Winnipeg was small in comparison.
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  #108  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2014, 8:35 PM
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Authentic City: Maybe it's a personal thing I have but I don't think that Osborne (disclaimer: although a nice area) holds a candle to Gastown or Queen Street. Winnipeg is a different city but it can hold itself to similar standards that the other major cities hold themselves to.
I think what you're getting at is not density per se. Some of Toronto's most dense neighbourhoods are not among the nicest neighbourhoods we might think of (e.g. St. James Town, Toronto).

Osborne Village is much denser than Corydon Village and the Exchange, but I think both are nicer areas in many ways, for me. Rather than sheer density, I'd prefer to see more infill in Osborne Village in the 3-5 story range and a focus on street level retail and other businesses that make the area more walkable. Still, I like the village in lots of ways, even if it isn't quite up to big city standards.
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  #109  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2014, 1:55 AM
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Can you clarify the the word in quotation marks in the bolded sentence. If it's can or can't. I assume can't. Thx

It's just odd that your comparing 2 areas in Winnipeg(Osborne/Crescentwood), to 2 of the largest urban centers in the country, Gastown/Queen, Van/TO.
I definitely am saying that Winnipeg should hold itself to similar standards that the big cities hold themselves to.

Winnipeg is a medium sized city that gradually grows. Of course I'm going to compare to the largest urban centres in the Country, for the most part they are doing things right in terms of development and I think that Winnipeg can take a page from their book so to speak. Winnipeg may be gradually growing but if it's heading in the same direction (and I'm speaking about gaining a larger population each year) then why not look at the weaknesses and strengths of the largest urban centres and implement it into our own development?

To me the recipe is there: the areas are walkable, they have a good demographic, and the population already likes to visit even in the winter. Why not intensify it? Just food for thought.
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  #110  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2014, 5:54 PM
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I should rephrase; it's not as dense as it should be. It's obviously a very nice area and dense I suppose (for Winnipeg standards) but I can see the area building up even more than it is. I'm just saying that the areas can do better and that it's a little shocking to see an area with high retail demands go to waste.

I hear you. I'd love to see the intensity of Osborne just south of River carry further south. The corner of Stradbrook and Osborne is terrible, for example. It's too bad none of the city's crooked firehall deals included the Osborne station, which is a clear hindrance to development. Without it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mixed use building pop up on the surface parking lot or strip mall that share that corner.

I'd also like to see some serious upzoning around confusion corner. Gertrude east of Osborne would be a great spot for some highrises to bring some population to the area, which would help support the thin retail offerings around there.

And if the city could have somehow not fucked up tremendously by letting surplus land just south of the rapid transit station turn into a Mcdonalds and gas bar, we might even have a chance of connecting South Osborne to the village. As it is, that's a dream.

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Watch yourself, those "annoying suburbanites" contribute to the areas' economy and liveliness. Osborne and Corydon are one of the only reasons suburbanites go downtown. Don't get your suspenders in a knot because people from different areas of the city legitimately enjoy Osborne and Corydon. It's a good thing that there is some movement between Winnipeg's suburbs and they contribute to the area's economy .

Authentic City: Maybe it's a personal thing I have but I don't think that Osborne (disclaimer: although a nice area) holds a candle to Gastown or Queen Street. Winnipeg is a different city but it can hold itself to similar standards that the other major cities hold themselves to.
The meat of a neighborhood is supported by the people who live there. This means the basic services people use day-to-day--groceries, convenience stores, liquor stores--and the establishments that become institutions--in Osborne's case, think of the Toad and GST. And people from the suburbs go to the Toad and GST precisely because they're part of the neighborhood.

Now, when you start treating neighborhoods like drive-in, disneyland playgrounds for suburbanites and tourists, you crowd out and create a hostile environment for the locals who supported those establishments and made them somewhere worth going in the first place. In the case of Osborne Village, this already happened a few years ago when Hi-fi and Noir brought in a flood of suburban idiots who made the neighborhood dangerous and unpleasant.

It's something that's been the bane of trendy neighborhoods everywhere: Trendy people live in a neighborhood, trendy establishments open to serve them, suburbanites flood the neighborhood and turn it into an unliveable cesspit.

It's funny that you mention Gastown and Queen street. Gas town is terrible. I mean, it's nice looking, but it's not a neighborhood, and it has a bunch of stores selling shitty Canadian tourist shit. Maple leaf tchotchkes, or whatever. T-shits with mooses and beavers on them. If a place like that ever opened on Osborne, I'd burn it to the ground. Gastown is a tourist trap off east Hastings. Nobody lives there. Nobody in Vancouver goes there. It doesn't have the services to support a population in their day-to-day lives.

Queen street isn't as bad, but would you want to live near it? Go a few blocks north and you'll find a better neighborhood street in College, replete with the services people need, and some fun places to go.

My point is, why destroy the city's best neighborhood for the sake of a few tourist dollars? Winnipeg will never draw masses of tourists, and selling out Osborne village will put Winnipeggers out, more than it will draw anyone in. Actively courting tourists is always a huge mistake, anyway, but I won't get into that here. Unless you want to.
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  #111  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2014, 8:40 PM
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To me the recipe is there: the areas are walkable, they have a good demographic, and the population already likes to visit even in the winter. Why not intensify it? Just food for thought.
The area has the right bones to be sure, gentrification of the area is coming along quite nicely in my opinion. Could things be sped up in the southern areas of Osborne surely. But there is no problem with the pace, as the area is filling out quite nicely.

Yes I've thought about it, as previously posted somewhere in the past on this site I've lived in the Osborne/Crescentwood/Exchange areas for many a year. Very familiar on what's happening development wise and what may be lacking or improved. All is well.
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  #112  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2014, 10:27 PM
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I hear you. I'd love to see the intensity of Osborne just south of River carry further south. The corner of Stradbrook and Osborne is terrible, for example. It's too bad none of the city's crooked firehall deals included the Osborne station, which is a clear hindrance to development. Without it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mixed use building pop up on the surface parking lot or strip mall that share that corner.

I'd also like to see some serious upzoning around confusion corner. Gertrude east of Osborne would be a great spot for some highrises to bring some population to the area, which would help support the thin retail offerings around there.

And if the city could have somehow not fucked up tremendously by letting surplus land just south of the rapid transit station turn into a Mcdonalds and gas bar, we might even have a chance of connecting South Osborne to the village. As it is, that's a dream.



The meat of a neighborhood is supported by the people who live there. This means the basic services people use day-to-day--groceries, convenience stores, liquor stores--and the establishments that become institutions--in Osborne's case, think of the Toad and GST. And people from the suburbs go to the Toad and GST precisely because they're part of the neighborhood.

Now, when you start treating neighborhoods like drive-in, disneyland playgrounds for suburbanites and tourists, you crowd out and create a hostile environment for the locals who supported those establishments and made them somewhere worth going in the first place. In the case of Osborne Village, this already happened a few years ago when Hi-fi and Noir brought in a flood of suburban idiots who made the neighborhood dangerous and unpleasant.

It's something that's been the bane of trendy neighborhoods everywhere: Trendy people live in a neighborhood, trendy establishments open to serve them, suburbanites flood the neighborhood and turn it into an unliveable cesspit.

It's funny that you mention Gastown and Queen street. Gas town is terrible. I mean, it's nice looking, but it's not a neighborhood, and it has a bunch of stores selling shitty Canadian tourist shit. Maple leaf tchotchkes, or whatever. T-shits with mooses and beavers on them. If a place like that ever opened on Osborne, I'd burn it to the ground. Gastown is a tourist trap off east Hastings. Nobody lives there. Nobody in Vancouver goes there. It doesn't have the services to support a population in their day-to-day lives.

Queen street isn't as bad, but would you want to live near it? Go a few blocks north and you'll find a better neighborhood street in College, replete with the services people need, and some fun places to go.

My point is, why destroy the city's best neighborhood for the sake of a few tourist dollars? Winnipeg will never draw masses of tourists, and selling out Osborne village will put Winnipeggers out, more than it will draw anyone in. Actively courting tourists is always a huge mistake, anyway, but I won't get into that here. Unless you want to.
In response to your Gastown comment it must be a few years since you have visited, asthere are quite a few people living down here of all incomes. Yes there are a couple gift shops left as this is a tourist destination but it is more and more a neighbourhood. The amount of great places to eat within walking distance is astounding not to mention the great shops from furniture, clothing and everything else. In terms of having no services there is a full service grocery store in my building. As well lots of Vancouverites make there way down here in the evening the Gastown of old is gone and an amazing neighbourhood is now here.
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  #113  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2014, 1:48 AM
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I hear you. I'd love to see the intensity of Osborne just south of River carry further south. The corner of Stradbrook and Osborne is terrible, for example. It's too bad none of the city's crooked firehall deals included the Osborne station, which is a clear hindrance to development. Without it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mixed use building pop up on the surface parking lot or strip mall that share that corner.

I'd also like to see some serious upzoning around confusion corner. Gertrude east of Osborne would be a great spot for some highrises to bring some population to the area, which would help support the thin retail offerings around there.

And if the city could have somehow not fucked up tremendously by letting surplus land just south of the rapid transit station turn into a Mcdonalds and gas bar, we might even have a chance of connecting South Osborne to the village. As it is, that's a dream.



The meat of a neighborhood is supported by the people who live there. This means the basic services people use day-to-day--groceries, convenience stores, liquor stores--and the establishments that become institutions--in Osborne's case, think of the Toad and GST. And people from the suburbs go to the Toad and GST precisely because they're part of the neighborhood.

Now, when you start treating neighborhoods like drive-in, disneyland playgrounds for suburbanites and tourists, you crowd out and create a hostile environment for the locals who supported those establishments and made them somewhere worth going in the first place. In the case of Osborne Village, this already happened a few years ago when Hi-fi and Noir brought in a flood of suburban idiots who made the neighborhood dangerous and unpleasant.

It's something that's been the bane of trendy neighborhoods everywhere: Trendy people live in a neighborhood, trendy establishments open to serve them, suburbanites flood the neighborhood and turn it into an unliveable cesspit.

It's funny that you mention Gastown and Queen street. Gas town is terrible. I mean, it's nice looking, but it's not a neighborhood, and it has a bunch of stores selling shitty Canadian tourist shit. Maple leaf tchotchkes, or whatever. T-shits with mooses and beavers on them. If a place like that ever opened on Osborne, I'd burn it to the ground. Gastown is a tourist trap off east Hastings. Nobody lives there. Nobody in Vancouver goes there. It doesn't have the services to support a population in their day-to-day lives.

Queen street isn't as bad, but would you want to live near it? Go a few blocks north and you'll find a better neighborhood street in College, replete with the services people need, and some fun places to go.

My point is, why destroy the city's best neighborhood for the sake of a few tourist dollars? Winnipeg will never draw masses of tourists, and selling out Osborne village will put Winnipeggers out, more than it will draw anyone in. Actively courting tourists is always a huge mistake, anyway, but I won't get into that here. Unless you want to.
Oh darn! I loved Kawaii Crepes so much.
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  #114  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 6:50 AM
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The meat of a neighborhood is supported by the people who live there. This means the basic services people use day-to-day--groceries, convenience stores, liquor stores--and the establishments that become institutions--in Osborne's case, think of the Toad and GST. And people from the suburbs go to the Toad and GST precisely because they're part of the neighborhood.

Now, when you start treating neighborhoods like drive-in, disneyland playgrounds for suburbanites and tourists, you crowd out and create a hostile environment for the locals who supported those establishments and made them somewhere worth going in the first place. In the case of Osborne Village, this already happened a few years ago when Hi-fi and Noir brought in a flood of suburban idiots who made the neighborhood dangerous and unpleasant.

It's something that's been the bane of trendy neighborhoods everywhere: Trendy people live in a neighborhood, trendy establishments open to serve them, suburbanites flood the neighborhood and turn it into an unliveable cesspit.

It's funny that you mention Gastown and Queen street. Gas town is terrible. I mean, it's nice looking, but it's not a neighborhood, and it has a bunch of stores selling shitty Canadian tourist shit. Maple leaf tchotchkes, or whatever. T-shits with mooses and beavers on them. If a place like that ever opened on Osborne, I'd burn it to the ground. Gastown is a tourist trap off east Hastings. Nobody lives there. Nobody in Vancouver goes there. It doesn't have the services to support a population in their day-to-day lives.

Queen street isn't as bad, but would you want to live near it? Go a few blocks north and you'll find a better neighborhood street in College, replete with the services people need, and some fun places to go.

My point is, why destroy the city's best neighborhood for the sake of a few tourist dollars? Winnipeg will never draw masses of tourists, and selling out Osborne village will put Winnipeggers out, more than it will draw anyone in. Actively courting tourists is always a huge mistake, anyway, but I won't get into that here. Unless you want to.
The reason why I name dropped Gastown and Queen Street was because I think that they are successful high density trendier neighborhoods, and that the Osborne area can learn a few things from them. Gastown has definitely changed since the last time you were there. So before we throw shade at another neighborhood, maybe we should tread carefully first? We can compare to any trendy neighbourhood you want if neither of those are your cup of tea; we've got a selection of them in our Country .

As for the burbies; what you see as unpleasant and a nuisance, I see them as evidence for some movement in Winnipeg (even in Winter, and that is RARE). And we both know that there isn't a lot of movement in Winnipeg to begin with. From my point of view, it can be an element for Osborne to draw from.

For the record I am in no way trying to suggest that we destroy a neighborhood's energy. What I am suggesting is some vision for the future. Like I mentioned before, the Osborne and Corydon areas have got several recipes for potential. One thing that Winnipeg needs is a vision for the future, and that future needs to include the Osborne area.

I mean no one else has talked about what Osborne (or Winnipeg for that matter) will look like in 2030 or even in 2020.
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  #115  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 1:34 PM
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The reason why I name dropped Gastown and Queen Street was because I think that they are successful high density trendier neighborhoods, and that the Osborne area can learn a few things from them. Gastown has definitely changed since the last time you were there. So before we throw shade at another neighborhood, maybe we should tread carefully first? We can compare to any trendy neighbourhood you want if neither of those are your cup of tea; we've got a selection of them in our Country .

As for the burbies; what you see as unpleasant and a nuisance, I see them as evidence for some movement in Winnipeg (even in Winter, and that is RARE). And we both know that there isn't a lot of movement in Winnipeg to begin with. From my point of view, it can be an element for Osborne to draw from.

For the record I am in no way trying to suggest that we destroy a neighborhood's energy. What I am suggesting is some vision for the future. Like I mentioned before, the Osborne and Corydon areas have got several recipes for potential. One thing that Winnipeg needs is a vision for the future, and that future needs to include the Osborne area.

I mean no one else has talked about what Osborne (or Winnipeg for that matter) will look like in 2030 or even in 2020.
The problem with the burbs is they come into an area like Osborne Village because they want to feel a sense of neighbourhood because they can't get that feeling from the shitty neighbourhoods they live in.

Instead of changing Osborne Village to better suit the suburbanites, perhaps we should change suburbia to Osborne Village standards? I think that's where Winnipeg should move to in 2020/2030.
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  #116  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 1:43 PM
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The problem with the burbs is they come into an area like Osborne Village because they want to feel a sense of neighbourhood because they can't get that feeling from the shitty neighbourhoods they live in.

Instead of changing Osborne Village to better suit the suburbanites, perhaps we should change suburbia to Osborne Village standards? I think that's where Winnipeg should move to in 2020/2030.
Well, they like the feel of the neighbourhood but they don't like the feel of urban life. People like driveways, backyards, and relatively spacious quarters. They do in Winnipeg, anyhow.
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  #117  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 2:38 PM
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Well, they like the feel of the neighbourhood but they don't like the feel of urban life. People like driveways, backyards, and relatively spacious quarters. They do in Winnipeg, anyhow.
The idea that people who live in suburbs, with their driveways and their backyards and spacious quarters, can't live in neighbourhoods is a fallacy. The problem isn't that people don't like urban life, it's that it is impossible to build neighbourhoods in suburban areas because of strict zoning/land-use codes.

People currently have to pick between a neighbourhood feel (osborne village, corydon, wolseley, etc.) or suburbs. Why can't you build a suburb with a neighbourhood feel?
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  #118  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 2:47 PM
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The idea that people who live in suburbs, with their driveways and their backyards and spacious quarters, can't live in neighbourhoods is a fallacy.
I don't think it's because they can't live in neighbourhoods, it's more about what they will miss. When selecting a home a set of priorities is used such as en suite bathrooms, walk-in closets, room for a large deck, large garage, etc. You simply can't get those things in the neighbourhoods you mention. In other words, having these amenities is more important than having the neighbourhood feel.

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People currently have to pick between a neighbourhood feel (osborne village, corydon, wolseley, etc.) or suburbs. Why can't you build a suburb with a neighbourhood feel?

Wasn't that how Waverly West was pedalled initially?
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  #119  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 3:49 PM
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^yeah, WW was supposed to be a reasonably dense, urban suburb. In a typical NDP bait and switch, it went from having 40000 to 30000 to 14000 homes, or whatever its capacity is now.

And Snyder is right, like he tends to be--get rid of parking requirements, setback rules, and density zoning and suburbs will incrementally become more urban. Just like they did before parking requirements, setback rules and density zoning existed. Streets like St. Annes's and Portage already have some street front and mixed used development--almost all of it from decades ago. There's no reason they shouldn't be lined with 3-6 floor mixed use buildings but that the city won't allow it.

I saw a nice video recently of how Melbourne plans to increase its population without building any more infrastructure, simply by reducing regulations along transit routes. Besides increasing density and making neighborhood streets in the suburbs, it preserves the single-family home environment off the main streets. Combine this with a proliferation of carriage houses and basement suites, and suburbs could easily double their population density, increase transit usage, improve neighborhood amenities, and people could still have big decks and garages.

Vancouver gets a lot of attention for its point towers next to the skytrain, but this kind of low-impact densification has been quietly and successfully going on for a long time there now.

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The reason why I name dropped Gastown and Queen Street was because I think that they are successful high density trendier neighborhoods, and that the Osborne area can learn a few things from them. Gastown has definitely changed since the last time you were there. So before we throw shade at another neighborhood, maybe we should tread carefully first? We can compare to any trendy neighbourhood you want if neither of those are your cup of tea; we've got a selection of them in our Country .

As for the burbies; what you see as unpleasant and a nuisance, I see them as evidence for some movement in Winnipeg (even in Winter, and that is RARE). And we both know that there isn't a lot of movement in Winnipeg to begin with. From my point of view, it can be an element for Osborne to draw from.

For the record I am in no way trying to suggest that we destroy a neighborhood's energy. What I am suggesting is some vision for the future. Like I mentioned before, the Osborne and Corydon areas have got several recipes for potential. One thing that Winnipeg needs is a vision for the future, and that future needs to include the Osborne area.

I mean no one else has talked about what Osborne (or Winnipeg for that matter) will look like in 2030 or even in 2020.
Osborne and Corydon already work, Heisenberg. Government meddling will only fuck them up. See the recent parking plan for Corydon.


Dennis, I'm not sure I get your point but Kawaii is owned by Village residents.
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  #120  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2014, 4:04 PM
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I don't think it's because they can't live in neighbourhoods, it's more about what they will miss. When selecting a home a set of priorities is used such as en suite bathrooms, walk-in closets, room for a large deck, large garage, etc. You simply can't get those things in the neighbourhoods you mention. In other words, having these amenities is more important than having the neighbourhood feel.




Wasn't that how Waverly West was pedalled initially?
Exactly. It's also worth mentioning in light of this year's incredible snow dump how unsuited the city is to any further development requiring back lanes. As soon as you rid yourself of front drives by relaxing setbacks in suburban communities, you're forced to pave and maintain a back lane for access. They're currently doing this in Waterford Green and they're going to live to regret it. Yes, it gives the streets a more neighbourhood feel - though, I'd argue River Heights is no more 'walkable' even with this configuration than say, East. Ft Garry with its driveways here and there - it contributes to the larger problem of managing future infrastructure.

It's an interesting dichotomy. Front drives push houses back, but they're the owner's problem at the very least...
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