Ottawa Baseball Stadium

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I agree. Adopt a Lansdowne model for the stadium starting with the parking lots. Buy off the land occupied by the big box stores to the east (which the City short-shortsightedly sold for the big box stores years ago) and possibly the RCMP building and parking lot. We could eventually have continuous urban development from the Vanier Parkway to St-Laurent Boulevard.

The city owned the land occupied by Canadian Tire and Best Buy?

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by phil235

It would be a shame to see the City pull the plug on the stadium, especially just before the LRT opens. The Champions' business plan included rapid transit access, so it's no surprise that they have suffered during the 2-season delay.

Yes, it's too big for the Champions, but there is always a possibility of an Expos or even a Jays farm team locating here. Once the stadium is gone, it's gone. This is the kind of asset that makes Ottawa a better, more interesting place to live. Another set of condos doesn't do that.

Even though the team only gets 1800-2000 per game, that is for 50-some games a year, so it's still quite a few people using the facility. Not sure about how much more use it gets, but I know that it was used for the university championships last fall, and there is no reason that the City couldn't be attempting to attract more events, including national team games.

If redevelopment is the goal, why not start with the parking lots? Those could easily be developed and a parking structure included in the first phase.

What kind of numbers are they expecting? I think 1,800 to 2,000 is reasonable and comparable to most other teams in the league. It would be unreasonable to expect big crowds for such a small league. I agree with you, it's nice to have the option to go watch a baseball game on a nice summer evening. It's really a quality of life thing. Tearing the stadium down would be a mistake, there are plenty of other sites to develop.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by le calmar

What kind of numbers are they expecting? I think 1,800 to 2,000 is reasonable and comparable to most other teams in the league. It would be unreasonable to expect big crowds for such a small league.

They were right in the middle of the pack in that league. I think they were hoping for something closer to 2500 per game. With the LRT operating, I expect they might close that gap considerably. Likewise with a better team (this one was in last place).

[J.OT13]

Some great news! Hopefully the City doesn't screw it up.

Ottawa Champions sale expected by end of September

NORMAN PROVENCHER | Updated: September 10, 2019
Postmedia

Miles Wolff, owner of the Ottawa Champions baseball team, says he’s pretty sure there will be pro baseball in the capital next season.

And he’s positive he won’t be part of it.

“This is it,” he said over the phone from his home in North Carolina on Tuesday.

“I really have to have it sold in the next two or three weeks. Both for me and for the league. The league has to know for preparing schedules and other things,” he said.

Wolff said he’s in talks with a couple of groups, one of which he categorized as “very, very interested” in the team. He won’t say whether the prospects are Ottawa-based but said both want to stay in Ottawa.

“I’m basically selling the club for debt,” Wolff said. Essentially, the buyers would have to assume the $400,000 or so the club owes the City of Ottawa for back rent on RCGT stadium.

The city and ball team worked out a new arrangement this summer, when the city tore up the 2013 lease under which the Champions were badly in default. The city allowed the team to rent the ball park on a game-by-game basis, while the team kept revenues from parking, concessions and the naming rights from RCGT.

“Basically (it) means we rent for $3,000 a game instead of $9,000 a game,” Wolff said.

The new agreement has its opponents. A number of city councillors told a committee meeting Tuesday that the city should explore ways to get other users, such as soccer or lacrosse groups, into the park. They also questioned whether the turf field could be replaced with artificial grass to make the field more versatile.

In the end, Coun. Laura Dudas proposed a motion to council with a number of caveats for baseball at RCGT park, including meeting with the new owners to review their financial viability. That would include the group’s capacity to enter into a seven- to 10-year lease with a proviso the city would be able to redevelop strategic parts of the stadium lands once LRT is fully implemented. The motion called for city staff to negotiate the lease before the start of the 2020 season and report back to council for approval. The motion also urged councillors, “local and national community groups and stakeholders” to identify opportunities for increased community usage of the stadium.

Council is to vote on the proposal Sept. 25.

Mayor Jim Watson said after the committee meeting he wants to see baseball continue at the stadium and make sure the facility has a long future.

Watson said the LRT delay — the stadium is connected to Tremblay Station by a footbridge — and limited bus service to the ball park hurt the main tenant this past season.

“Those were two strikes against the Champions,” Watson said.

Watson said he hopes the city can find a way forward with either Wolff or a new owner, and not give up on the baseball stadium.

Coun. Scott Moffatt pointed out during the committee meeting that fans could have seen some big-name Toronto Blue Jays prospects come through Ottawa if council had pursued a chance in 2013 to bring a double-A baseball club and potentially a Blue Jays farm team to the city.

Council ended up going with a cheaper option in signing a lease with the Champions and the Can-Am League, which didn’t require expensive stadium upgrades.

“(The double-A proposal) was a $40-million undertaking and we just didn’t have the money and I couldn’t in good faith invest $40 million to renovate a stadium that, quite frankly, is in pretty good shape, for double-A baseball,” Watson said.

Wolff said he “doesn’t see why the city would want to end (the new) arrangement, as long as the back debt is paid.”

“That should help a lot in selling the team.”

He said the Champions don’t have any other “significant” creditors.

The owner said he’s “sorry we weren’t able to make the team successful (but) all along I’ve said that local ownership is the key to making it work.

“I know this isn’t a dead franchise,” he said. “There’s strong support in the community and we haven’t even ever had a good team.”

The Champions won the Can-Am championship in 2016, backing into the playoffs with a fourth-place finish, then defeating the Rockland Boulders in the finals.

Even that year, the team only attracted an average of 2,454 spectators per game.

Attendance in 2019 averaged just about 1,800, third best in the six-team league in a stadium — purpose built for the triple-A level Ottawa Lynx — that’s twice the size of any other park in Can-Am.

Yet the team had some of its biggest 2019 crowds in the last couple of weeks of the season, after they had been eliminated from playoff contention. The Labour Day weekend featured a couple of crowds of well above 3,000 people.

“People can say I didn’t do this or that, and that may be true, (but) new ownership can bring new vision, new ideas, new contacts and connections.”

Areas that could improve include more corporate partnerships to boost season and/or group sales, and increased marketing efforts.

“I don’t feel that I got as involved in the community as I could have,” he said.

“All the elements for success are there.”

— With files from Jon Willing

https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/bas...d-of-september

I attended games (2) for the first time this year. Once with my parents and nephews and another with one of my work buddies. It's a great show! Prices are very reasonable, you get some fresh air, much more freedom than RedBlacks or Sens games.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Some great news! Hopefully the City doesn't screw it up.


I attended games (2) for the first time this year. Once with my parents and nephews and another with one of my work buddies. It's a great show! Prices are very reasonable, you get some fresh air, much more freedom than RedBlacks or Sens games.

I really hope that he means that a sale is negotiated and they just need to finalize the terms. If this is just his wish, then it may not be good news after all. It doesn't sound like he will be operating the team next year.

I went to three games this year, all of which were well attended (3000+ fans). Tickets are cheap, the atmosphere is great and the baseball is very good. The Champions had a pitcher who was drafted 11th overall. I'm not likely to buy season tickets, but I would certainly miss going to the park on a few afternoons each year.

[OTownandDown]

I don't understand why the stadium is only used for the Champions?

Are there any rentals, concerts, shows, or anything else the City can use the stadium for? In this day and age, you have to have butts in the seats all the time. Seems like a waste to just play a couple dozen baseball games a year in a giant stadium.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

I really hope that he means that a sale is negotiated and they just need to finalize the terms. If this is just his wish, then it may not be good news after all. It doesn't sound like he will be operating the team next year.

I went to three games this year, all of which were well attended (3000+ fans). Tickets are cheap, the atmosphere is great and the baseball is very good. The Champions had a pitcher who was drafted 11th overall. I'm not likely to buy season tickets, but I would certainly miss going to the park on a few afternoons each year.

Same. The game I attended on a Sunday afternoon wasn't very busy, but the Friday evening game a few weeks later was decently busy (I have no numbers).

Now that I've discovered baseball, I wouldn't mind taking in a few games a year.

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I don't understand why the stadium is only used for the Champions?

Are there any rentals, concerts, shows, or anything else the City can use the stadium for? In this day and age, you have to have butts in the seats all the time. Seems like a waste to just play a couple dozen baseball games a year in a giant stadium.

We had a few other events, like the games against the Cubans last Spring and Women's baseball in August. I don't have all the details. But that's the City's failure, is it not?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

We had a few other events, like the games against the Cubans last Spring and Women's baseball in August. I don't have all the details. But that's the City's failure, is it not?

Agreed it could get more use, but it's something like 52 regular season home games for the Champions, plus playoffs and whatever extra time they use the stadium. Given that we are talking the summer season here (May through maybe October), so that means that the Champions have it busy somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the time.

There was the university championships last year for a week, and there is quite a bit of community use as well.

But agreed, they could certainly look at some high profile events to make it more viable. There has been the occasional concert held there, but I think the reality is that there are other, better venues for concerts in the city.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by phil235

Agreed it could get more use, but it's something like 52 regular season home games for the Champions, plus playoffs and whatever extra time they use the stadium. Given that we are talking the summer season here (May through maybe October), so that means that the Champions have it busy somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the time.

There was the university championships last year for a week, and there is quite a bit of community use as well.

But agreed, they could certainly look at some high profile events to make it more viable. There has been the occasional concert held there, but I think the reality is that there are other, better venues for concerts in the city.

uOttawa has entered a men's baseball team in the OUA (Ontario University Athletics) league. They play at this stadium. Does anybody go to watch them? Probably very few.

[OTownandDown]

Yes, this is the City's failure, and mirrors the cattle castle/Lansdowne.

Is there no office for programming public events at the City? How do these things get thought up, planned, and executed?

The only thing I can see about the baseball stadium is that the 'rent' that the baseball team paid got them exclusive rights to operate the stadium (which makes not a lot of sense). Now with a pay-by-the-game system, the City has an opportunity to think up other events to host at the stadium and get it used again. But without a strong office of creative people trying to run these things, I guess it'll just go unused, much like the cattle castle 6 days a week.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Same. The game I attended on a Sunday afternoon wasn't very busy, but the Friday evening game a few weeks later was decently busy (I have no numbers).

Now that I've discovered baseball, I wouldn't mind taking in a few games a year.




We had a few other events, like the games against the Cubans last Spring and Women's baseball in August. I don't have all the details. But that's the City's failure, is it not?

[CityTech]

^ Agreed. I honestly think the city needs to start contracting out event programming at city spaces.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by CityTech

^ Agreed. I honestly think the city needs to start contracting out event programming at city spaces.

I think some version of contracting out makes sense. I'm not sure that they want to fully cede responsibility for contracting to a private entity, as you want to make sure that the community retains access and that profitability isn't the only criteria determining what goes ahead. That said, it certainly seems like there would be room for an event-planning firm to be brought in with a mandate to fill up empty dates and a financial incentive to ensure regular use of these facilities.

[OTownandDown]

Well, your comment on profitability is telling. I suppose that's an entirely different conversation. Do you want City of Ottawa real estate to be profitable, non-profit, or a money pit? We're trending to giant money-pit at the moment (note I haven't seen 'operating and maintenance' mentioned in any of these articles but I assume it's in the millions per year).

Originally Posted by phil235

I think some version of contracting out makes sense. I'm not sure that they want to fully cede responsibility for contracting to a private entity, as you want to make sure that the community retains access and that profitability isn't the only criteria determining what goes ahead. That said, it certainly seems like there would be room for an event-planning firm to be brought in with a mandate to fill up empty dates and a financial incentive to ensure regular use of these facilities.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Well, your comment on profitability is telling. I suppose that's an entirely different conversation. Do you want City of Ottawa real estate to be profitable, non-profit, or a money pit? We're trending to giant money-pit at the moment (note I haven't seen 'operating and maintenance' mentioned in any of these articles but I assume it's in the millions per year).

Well, I would definitely say that we aren't looking for profitability or even revenue-neutral. If that were the test, then every community centre, library and theatre in the city would be up for redevelopment.

These are public facilities that improve the quality of life in the city. I'm quite alright with financial support from the city. Without these assets, the city will have trouble attracting investment, skilled labour etc., so it's not a zero-sum proposition.

Edit: To respond to your comment about the stadium costing millions per year - according to a council document from 2012, the stadium has a useful lifespan of 70 years (until 2060) and the expected cost for the city to run and program the stadium for 10 years was $530,000 annually, including life cycle improvements. With a baseball tenant, the cost was lower, dependent on the lease options chosen.

[OTownandDown]

Ok, the $530,000 is not too bad. I'm assuming hydro/heating/water/etc. is about 50% of that, with the remainder being capital improvements and insurance. But I seriously doubt the capital improvements fund is adequate for the building, which is the usual for the City, so their operating expenses appear low until an 'emergency' need of funds come up and they scratch something together.

I agree with you regarding the non-revenue-neutralness of city property. This is a reason we have property tax. However the size of the pit should dictate how much attention the City pays to a site. For instance, a building I know of has only one limited paying tenant, and two pro-bono tenants who don't generate any income from the site. So the building is almost 100% no-revenue, yet costs millions over its lifespan for upkeep. Should we not be looking at how to generate more revenue from these sites? I see no problem with using a smart-condo method of having commercial spaces fronting the property with the non-profit spaces at the back benefiting from the rental.

As for the baseball stadium, the options include... baseball.. and... baseball.

or
Mud-run
Concert
Late-night yoga?

Originally Posted by phil235

Well, I would definitely say that we aren't looking for profitability or even revenue-neutral. If that were the test, then every community centre, library and theatre in the city would be up for redevelopment.

These are public facilities that improve the quality of life in the city. I'm quite alright with financial support from the city. Without these assets, the city will have trouble attracting investment, skilled labour etc., so it's not a zero-sum proposition.

Edit: To respond to your comment about the stadium costing millions per year - according to a council document from 2012, the stadium has a useful lifespan of 70 years (until 2060) and the expected cost for the city to run and program the stadium for 10 years was $530,000 annually, including life cycle improvements. With a baseball tenant, the cost was lower, dependent on the lease options chosen.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Ok, the $530,000 is not too bad. I'm assuming hydro/heating/water/etc. is about 50% of that, with the remainder being capital improvements and insurance. But I seriously doubt the capital improvements fund is adequate for the building, which is the usual for the City, so their operating expenses appear low until an 'emergency' need of funds come up and they scratch something together.

I agree with you regarding the non-revenue-neutralness of city property. This is a reason we have property tax. However the size of the pit should dictate how much attention the City pays to a site. For instance, a building I know of has only one limited paying tenant, and two pro-bono tenants who don't generate any income from the site. So the building is almost 100% no-revenue, yet costs millions over its lifespan for upkeep. Should we not be looking at how to generate more revenue from these sites? I see no problem with using a smart-condo method of having commercial spaces fronting the property with the non-profit spaces at the back benefiting from the rental.

As for the baseball stadium, the options include... baseball.. and... baseball.

or
Mud-run
Concert
Late-night yoga?

No argument with trying to generate more revenue from these sites, particularly ones that sit empty frequently like the baseball stadium. I don't have a problem with hiring a firm to program the site and find other uses. I'd just like to see them keep some balance between community uses that won't be profitable, and money-generating uses. For instance, I wouldn't want to see the stadium programmed with events to the point where you couldn't rent it inexpensively for your minor baseball team. Or late-night yoga.

[rocketphish]

2 groups vying for baseball stadium lease
OSEG, Winnipeg Goldeyes among interested parties

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Sep 25, 2019 1:17 PM ET | Last Updated: 6 hours ago



Two "viable, legitimate" groups have approached the City of Ottawa about leasing its baseball stadium now that the struggling Champions are in default, councillors learned Wednesday.

One group includes the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG), owner of the CFL Redblacks, the USL Fury and OHL 67's, and partner Regan Katz on behalf of the Winnipeg Goldeyes, a successful franchise in the American Association of Independent Professional Baseball.

The other proposal comes from Rob Lavoie, Rob Abboud and Fred Saghbini.

Both groups are aware that the city expects them to clear nearly half a million dollars in debt the Champions owe before they can hit the field for the 2020 season, the city said.

"We're trying to minimize our loss and get our money back. It's been part of the negotiations," city manager Steve Kanellakos told councillors.

"We feel now that we have two viable, legitimate owners' groups who are interested in the team [and] who have the financial means to be able to deal with that outstanding debt."

Mayor Jim Watson encouraged other interested parties to come forward.

"I think that it's exciting that there are groups prepared to step up to the plate, excuse the pun, and bid to continue professional baseball in Ottawa," said Watson.

Champions owner Miles Wolff was on a repayment plan with the city, but missed his Sept. 4 payment, councillors also learned.

The city has now found him to be in default and will be cashing a $108,000 letter of credit.

Even with that payment the Champions owe $463,000 for missing rent payments in previous seasons, and for the hourly rate it was being charged during the 2019 season, which ended earlier this month.

Coun. Carol Anne Meehan questioned how any new owner could succeed where others have failed. City officials noted the light rail station at Tremblay will mean fans can now get to games on LRT.

Other councillors were less interested in the business of baseball, and more keen to see staff undertake a grander vision for how else the stadium site could be used.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ease-1.5296665

[harls]

The fact that the site is now serviced by LRT could also work against the case for baseball.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by harls

The fact that the site is now serviced by LRT could also work against the case for baseball.

Agreed. It's a prime location for something OTHER than a money trap baseball stadium.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Agreed. It's a prime location for something OTHER than a money trap baseball stadium.

Wouldn’t that be the case for almost any public facility? Condo towers would be more lucrative than the money trap NAC - let’s rip it down!