Canada's Golden Age

[lio45]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So instead we're throwing away money on real estate bubbles. So much better.

I'm with you, throwing away money on low-cap-rate real estate is even worse than throwing it, spread, at a diverse enough bunch of separate risky high-tech startups. I'd sooner do the latter. (As mentioned, I'm generally doing neither, but I'd pick the latter poison first.)

If everyone thought like me, the equilibrium point between real estate and tech would be moved significantly towards the tech side. But people in general are risk-averse and brick and mortar appeals to them (plus, they're conditioned by decades of "real estate can't go anywhere but up"). That's why I'm saying the only solution is to make it more financially interesting to "gamble" on startups.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Nite

Keep in mind the US is fueling it's economy right now from massive taxs cuts which has increased their deficits to unsustainable portions.
The US is headed for a big slump in the future.

This is true, however it is possible that they will just keep growing and inadvertently prove that deficits don't matter if you can print your own money. Ironic that it would of course be 'conservatives' that prove that. The advantage the USA has is that they are so overwhelmingly powerful that they can make the rest of the world bend to them.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Some of the growth in the U.S. isn't healthy growth. Many of my wife's family members there have lots of money to buy goods but things like their health care costs really hurt their finances. The 2008 recession almost sunk them too yet our family was barely affected. I find that Canada has made more wise economic decisions and has also spent public funds more efficiently. More stability here.

The American way of doing things isn't all bad but I find that there are more vulnerable people there and less of a social safety net.

Agreed, as mentioned though we have the same problem with real estate, only difference is money spent on real estate is not very productive. At least all the money spent on medical care keeps sloshing round the economy and results in technological progress.

[ssiguy]

Balletomane............thanks for staring this thread, a very interesting one.

Certainly the 1960s was seen as a Golden Age. Expo 67 solidified that but also a booming economy, huge manufacturing success making Canada one of the world's biggest car makers, our brand new and very iconic new flag, and the election of Trudeau who was well known throughout the world and brought in many laws that brought us more progressive nation on social values.

That said there is much to believe that today we are in a Golden Age. Canada has never, ever been so well respected, admired, and more powerful and influential on the international scene. Despite being next to the elephant in the room, Canada matters and is one of the world's most powerful and influencial countries which is pretty miraculous for a country of just 38 million. From our strong democracy, large G7 economy and the huge influence it has over world economic and political affairs, progressive laws and values, successful multicultural integration, the rise of Toronto on the financial, poltical, cultural scene and quickly became one of world's most important cities, to our international known rock star PM, to the relative decline of US influence worldwide...........Canada has hit it's stride.

Yes, like all countries, we have our challenges but right now Canada has never been more self assured, respected, powerful, and influential, Canada truly has moved beyond it's middle power country status to one of the world's most powerful nations.

[Northern Light]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not a big fan of 'golden age' concepts.

The issue being they tend to look at a given historical period w/rose-coloured glasses, over selling its accomplishments and glossing over its flaws.

That said, if I were to look for a period where I felt the greatest foundational leaps were made for standard of living and social and economic development, to this point, I'd have to look at 1963-1969.

During this six year span, Canada saw the introduction of CPP/OAS/GIS which lifted millions seniors out of poverty.

Canada saw the introduction of universal health insurance, insuring everyone could have access to a family doctor and the hospital without financial concern.

This period also brought us decriminalization of homosexuality; official bilingualism; and our flag.

While we also saw PM Pearson pioneer the idea of Peacekeeping.

That was a productive few years!

It also brought marked rise in High School graduation rates, and build-out of a more robust post-secondary system.

****

In the current day, Canada is certainly successful; but we're sliding sideway on files like income inequality, work-life balance and responsible environmental management.

We know the solutions, so if our governments make a determined push to deliver, one can imagine another age of achievement on the horizon; but that is to be determined.

[wave46]

I'll list 2:

1. The 1960s. A more confident Canada quietly starts defining itself, without the chaos and disorder that characterized other nations (May 1968 in France, the riots of 1967/1968 in the US, the political assassinations of the era)

The Quiet Revolution in Quebec sweeps away the old guard of the Duplessis era. Montreal defines itself at the premier city of Canada and puts itself on the world stage during Expo '67.

The federal government embarks on the most ambitious expansion of the welfare state - many of the things we take for granted today have their roots to the Pearson government in the mid-60s. Culturally, we change the symbols that tied us to our past - the Red Ensign goes away (and no one really misses it, except for Diefenbaker) and the Maple Leaf flag is raised in its place. The introduction of the Official Languages Act acknowledges the duality of our country.

On the world stage, Canada rides much higher than its small population would suggest. Our sacrifices in WWII, the Korean War and our role in defending Europe in the face of the Warsaw Pact gives us credibility on the world stage.

2. The modern era (2000-present). Canada, having struggled through the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s with economic problems, Constitutional wrangling, and Quebec separatism, enters a relative period of calm.

The economy prospers relatively evenly. Separatism goes on the back burner as Canadians adopt a live-and-let-live approach to federal-provincial relations.

Our profile on the world stage drifts upwards in response to our aid to our neighbour in the September 11th attacks, and the subsequent War in Afghanistan. Like the 1960s, we avoid the minefield of a war that becomes very unpopular (Vietnam in the 1960s, the Iraq War in 2003), saving us from the unrest those wars precipitated.

Enjoy the golden era while it lasts.

[J.OT13]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. Certainly our contribution to WWII (and WWI to a lesser extent) placed Canada at the forefront on the international stage, and so was a start to the Golden Age, but 1963 up until the 1970 October crisis was our true Golden Age. Lester B. Pearson accomplished more with his minority Government in 5 years than any other Canadian Government in history. In addition, we saw the rise of Montréal as a truly international city with its ultra-modern Métro and Expo 67 and the construction of modern new skyscrapers that re-defined skylines of our largest cities.

[WhipperSnapper]

I don't think future generations will look back and see this as a Golden Era. An economy built on resource extraction, lower wages and, real estate speculation isn't nearly as stable as it may have appeared over the past 20 years. A large percentage of Canadians that have entered the work force over the past decade are struggling to maintain Canada's high standard for quality of life and standard of living. They have simply been priced out.

There's also a conflict between women's rights and the customs of immigrants that we aren't paying attention to now but, will eventually come to a head in the future.


The world wars that devastated Europe were huge boons for North America. I hate to associate a golden era built on the backs of a devastated continent however, You can't ignore the the 1920s (people got a little ahead of themselves like they are now) or the 1950s in North America. Both of these decades helped establish the US as an economic superpower with us their closest neighbour.

[MonkeyRonin]

To echo what most of the rest of you have been saying, the post-war years were certainly good to us. If we roughly follow the tenure of Louis St. Laurent to Pierre Trudeau, it was a period of rapidly rising living standards & growing economic prosperity, national identity, international influence, and important nation-building projects. In many ways Canada was at the forefront of the post-war liberal democratic zeitgeist.

In those few decades, we saw the "completion" of the nation with the admission of Newfoundland; aboriginal suffrage; Canada entering NATO & the G7, and a greater role in the UN; universal healthcare, equalization & the welfare state; peacekeeping; the Maple Leaf; bilingualism & multiculturalism; the Quiet Revolution; major infrastructure projects like the Trans-Canada highway, St. Lawrence Seaway, Via Rail, the Toronto & Montreal subways; and rapid population growth & urbanization spurred by global immigration - it's no coincidence that many of our cities today are largely characterized by the architecture of this era.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The USA has considerably higher GDP per capita, and is growing faster - with every year that passes the gap between the two becomes larger. Given that Canada has many of the advantages of the USA without many of the disadvantages, we should be catching up rapidly, yet we are not.

The US is rapidly decaying into the haves and have-nots. GDP per capita is a poor indicator of average quality of life.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Agreed, as mentioned though we have the same problem with real estate, only difference is money spent on real estate is not very productive. At least all the money spent on medical care keeps sloshing round the economy and results in technological progress.

Sort of. Canada benefits a lot from these developments too. Our system is slightly behind the US, but we get their innovations for pennies on the dollar after they've been sold at full price in the US.

The difference is we get the health benefit without the juiced GDP.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I don't think future generations will look back and see this as a Golden Era. An economy built on resource extraction, lower wages and, real estate speculation isn't nearly as stable as it may have appeared over the past 20 years. A large percentage of Canadians that have entered the work force over the past decade are struggling to maintain Canada's high standard for quality of life and standard of living. They have simply been priced out.

There's also a conflict between women's rights and the customs of immigrants that we aren't paying attention to now but, will eventually come to a head in the future.

One tends not to really know they're in a golden era at the time. The many small issues of the day tend to distract from the larger picture. The 1960s were viewed as a good time relative to the War and the Depression, surely, but there were storm clouds on the horizon. The FLQ was doing its thing, the largest minority was just getting recognition (and still was none too happy about their second-class status in their own province), and the economy was still based on resource extraction and branch plant mentality.

With respect to the current last couple of decades, Canada has produced enough things/companies with indigenous design (some that come to mind: Blackberry, Dash 8 Q400, CRJ, Bombardier CSeries, Shopify, etc.) that definitely one can look to an be proud of. It's not too often everything is as tranquil as it is now (What exactly is this current election about, anyway?), so there's an element of not seeing the forest through the trees.

That being said, there is a danger in our good times. Certainly you've mentioned some of the things, but I also view the rot in our industrial economy as concerning. Many of the things that propelled us forwards in the 2000s have either withered (Blackberry, regional props/jets, the CSeries became the A220 for $1) and a lot of the promises we've made to the older generation are coming due.

I suspect the next 20 years will not be as easy as the last 20 years - headwinds ahead for Canada IMO. I hope I'm wrong and this Golden Era lasts longer.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The USA has considerably higher GDP per capita, and is growing faster - with every year that passes the gap between the two becomes larger. Given that Canada has many of the advantages of the USA without many of the disadvantages, we should be catching up rapidly, yet we are not.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The US is rapidly decaying into the haves and have-nots. GDP per capita is a poor indicator of average quality of life.

There's definitely a reason why the international development community tends to prefer the HDI as a more general proxy for overall development rather than any one of its constituent parts (education, wealth, and life expectancy) since it's possible to do really well overall in one area while face planting in another due to things like inequality or individual countries' government policies. In the US, figures like GDP percapita and average income tend to be inflated by the huge wealth at the top with all the billionaires and millionaires that Canada has comparatively few of but it's arguable how much this top end actually benefits the populace at large. Most people seem to understand that the myth of trickle down has been thoroughly discredited.

And yes, the last time I checked Canada had a slightly higher HDI ranking than the US.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think we are living through a golden age right now, and that Canada is soon going to be considered a more powerful country on the global stage, comparable to the UK.

We're also living through an urban golden age specifically. The urban ills of the 90's and earlier are mostly gone and urban living is the most desirable kind of living right now.

Like other posters, I am not really into notions of "golden ages", but this is probably the post I agree with the most.

Even since the turn of the 21st century I'd say things have been pretty good for Canada.

[balletomane]

I guess the golden age for each city and region in Canada is going to be different, as many have said the 1960's was when the Canadian identity really began to emerge and solidify with Expo 1967 being our showcase to the world and peak of that confidence. Things also look pretty good right now with the mess down south and in the UK.

In my original post I said that I see our golden age as being the decade or so preceding WW1, however being a Winnipegger, it makes sense that I might have that perception.

I consider Winnipeg and Southern Manitoba to be part of my family's story, one side arriving in the 1870's and the other side around 1910. We haven't moved around Canada or the continent too much since, not because we were unable, we just never did, and that means something to me, that despite all the negative perceptions others might have about Winnipeg, it hasn't done too badly for my family and has taken care of us for the past 150 years. If it hadn't, I'm sure we would've left quite long ago.
I imagine myself in their shoes, when Winnipeg was going through its golden age, stepping out of Union Station or the Canadian Pacific Railway Station for the first time and seeing the hustle and bustle of a city that was little more than a pioneer town forty years ago, now the third largest city in the Dominion. Looking down Main Street and seeing great big banks and skyscrapers, all built within the last decade, some of which held the distinction as being among the tallest in the British Empire for a short time. My ancestors would've seen a completely different Winnipeg than we see today, one with an overly-optimistic, everything is possible attitude that believed it was "it". The Ellis Island of Western Canada that looked to Chicago for inspiration like she was an older sister. I wish I could be in their shoes just for a moment to experience that city, what it felt like, smelled like, sounded like...now we seem to be defined too much by young people leaving, crime, negativity, a city that's still against pedestrians at Portage and Main for fear that angry bus drivers will hit them and is slowly chugging along with its construction of Rapid Transit, once finally completed there will be debates at City Hall as to whether it should be converted to LRT.
Things are getting better however, and I'm optimistic about our future, yet I don't expect a return to those pre-WW1 boom years and optimism, our golden age.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by balletomane

I guess the golden age for each city and region in Canada is going to be different, as many have said the 1960's was when the Canadian identity really began to emerge and solidify with Expo 1967 being our showcase to the world and peak of that confidence. Things also look pretty good right now with the mess down south and in the UK.

In my original post I said that I see our golden age as being the decade or so preceding WW1, however being a Winnipegger, it makes sense that I might have that perception.

I consider Winnipeg and Southern Manitoba to be part of my family's story, one side arriving in the 1870's and the other side around 1910. We haven't moved around Canada or the continent too much since, not because we were unable, we just never did, and that means something to me, that despite all the negative perceptions others might have about Winnipeg, it hasn't done too badly for my family and has taken care of us for the past 150 years. If it hadn't, I'm sure we would've left quite long ago.
I imagine myself in their shoes, when Winnipeg was going through its golden age, stepping out of Union Station or the Canadian Pacific Railway Station for the first time and seeing the hustle and bustle of a city that was little more than a pioneer town forty years ago, now the third largest city in the Dominion. Looking down Main Street and seeing great big banks and skyscrapers, all built within the last decade, some of which held the distinction as being among the tallest in the British Empire for a short time. My ancestors would've seen a completely different Winnipeg than we see today, one with an overly-optimistic, everything is possible attitude that believed it was "it". The Ellis Island of Western Canada that looked to Chicago for inspiration like she was an older sister. I wish I could be in their shoes just for a moment to experience that city, what it felt like, smelled like, sounded like...now we seem to be defined too much by young people leaving, crime, negativity, a city that's still against pedestrians at Portage and Main for fear that angry bus drivers will hit them and is slowly chugging along with its construction of Rapid Transit, once finally completed there will be debates at City Hall as to whether it should be converted to LRT.
Things are getting better however, and I'm optimistic about our future, yet I don't expect a return to those pre-WW1 boom years and optimism, our golden age.

As a fellow Manitoban (although not from the Peg) I can relate in your opinion.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Like other posters, I am not really into notions of "golden ages", but this is probably the post I agree with the most.

Even since the turn of the 21st century I'd say things have been pretty good for Canada.

I will add the caveat that I don't think any golden age has ever been perfect, and to some degree I am comparing Canada to other countries.

Incidentally I think we are also living through multiple "red scares" right now. People are worked up about inflated threats and there's a clear sense of dogma that must be followed unless you want to get in trouble (everyone with common sense who is capable of independent thought knows you "can't say" a bunch of stuff these days). The issues are real, just like the spread of Communism was, but society has lost its collective mind due to the dynamics at play. Most likely, 2019 is going to look pretty weird to somebody looking back from 2029 or 2039. Hopefully we're at a low point.