Future of Downtown Winnipeg

[armorand93]

What would Downtown Winnipeg look like, if half the surfae parking lots we have now, are high-rises? What would Downtown Winnipeg look like, if we built Sam Katz's LRT, either above or below-ground? What would Downtown Winnipeg look like, if we got another 25,000 people into the centre of the city?

Post your possible ideas and diagams here. I'm going to start working on one right after I post this thread

[armorand93]

Left to Right: 45 floor Office OR Residential Tower, Manitoba Hydro building, 25 Floor Residential Tower, 25 Floor Office OR Hotel Complex. Smaller buildings are local stores, and the building in the middle of Graham beside the 25-Floor Blue tower, would be a tunnel for future LRT under Sam Katz leading to either the University of Wininpeg or onto Portage Avenue

Questions or comments?

[bicycles]

that office tower would definitely need to be office if it was 45 stories and that height; residential floor heights are much smaller then office ones and thus 40-45 stories of residential would be closer to the height of Manitoba Hydro.

I don't think LRT needs to be underground, Portage Ave is so wide it could easily accomodate surface LRT, plus you could also use Graham Ave once you hit Memorial coming into downtown from the west.

The plan looks good though, Winnipeg definitely needs some dt residential towers as well as some good low rise options.

this is what I would like to see for LRT (blue being the first line constructed, all surface or elevated LRT)
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...8220f494399959

the other two lines are still a work in progress... testing different things.

[SpongeG]

you could have office and residential combined - office on the bottom 20 and residential the next 25 floors - Vancouver has that with the shaw building - shaw offices on the bottom and residential above - you can also do that with hotels like the shangra la, fairmont etc.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by bicycles

that office tower would definitely need to be office if it was 45 stories and that height; residential floor heights are much smaller then office ones and thus 40-45 stories of residential would be closer to the height of Manitoba Hydro.

I don't think LRT needs to be underground, Portage Ave is so wide it could easily accomodate surface LRT, plus you could also use Graham Ave once you hit Memorial coming into downtown from the west.

The plan looks good though, Winnipeg definitely needs some dt residential towers as well as some good low rise options.

this is what I would like to see for LRT (blue being the first line constructed, all surface or elevated LRT)
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...8220f494399959

the other two lines are still a work in progress... testing different things.

Lol it should be office then (I'm still getting acquainted to Google SketchUp and I'm only 17, so theres some things I have yet to learn). Keep the residential along either Main Street or Graham Avenue, so they get LRT Access. I already got a station designed for the area around Graham and Carlton. I'll upload a picture after I finish this omelette for breakfast

It'd be kind of hard to have it turn onto Portage though from Graham. We could put it underground, THEN have it run under Portage (for a kilometre or two). It could then have an underground station for the university of Winnipeg and go back to the surface of Portage in between Maryland and Sherbrooke, continuing to Polo. Also, theres St. Matthews, as it is a dead street and LRT might attract some more apartments and housing in the West End.

Low Rise should be where current 1 to 3-Floor buildings are. Offer a deal with those current tenants by giving them space in the new towers being built, in exchange for them letting go of their tiny little shops. Possibly even a local business mall! Now that'd be interesting.

The Blue Line should have an expansion though, to CentrePort Canada once the need arises. Otherwise, I'd totally agree. Red could use an extension West towards Assiniboia Downs. Just think of how much money the city would get from commuters using the Park N' Ride, or the Red River Ex! Also, is it possible for it to use the CPR railyards? If so, we could get an easier way to get it to McPhillips. Also, the West End would be serviced by BlueLine, so a second one wouldn't be necessary. Green should extend to Transcona, but still continue on towards St. Vital.

Below-Surface: End of Phase II on the South Side of the Assiniboine, on towards Union Station (both VIA Rail and LRT Stations). Turn onto graham. Winnipeg Square Station. Re-appear on the Surface, Carlton Station (where the Brown building is). Underground again, turning onto Portage. U of W Station. Go back to Surface LRT between Maryland and Sherbrooke, on towards Polo or maybe even Headingley.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

you could have office and residential combined - office on the bottom 20 and residential the next 25 floors - Vancouver has that with the shaw building - shaw offices on the bottom and residential above - you can also do that with hotels like the shangra la, fairmont etc.

True. I think it would be useful it if was seperated though, unless in an complex. If i can get a SketchUp version of Union Station, I could design a nice little office/residential complex

I cant create one myself, cause my SketchUp skills are still a bit twitchy

[armorand93]

[thurmas]

I think your vision is a little too grand for Winnipeg in that it's unrealistic. Downtown itself doesn't really need rapid transit it is fairly easy to get around on foot or by bus but going to other parts of the city is where transit really stinks. The current downtown population of Winnipeg is only about 15,000 people adding 25,000 is just unrealistic maybe 5,000 to 10,000 but not 25,000. I don't think the towers need to be big just numerous one on gary and graham proposed a few years back but failed for residential would be good and have the portage place roof pads developed already for condos. This would add some much needed density to the city. Have the Convention expand accross York and have it include condos or a hotel. The commercial market still doesn't have the demand to warrant more towers downtown so all new towers would have to be residential.Also we currently have a infrastructure deficit of $4 billion adding fancy underground LRT lines downtown and asking the feds to pony up again it just won't happen. Also the rumor was that once the uofm rapid transit line is done the next one planed was for a line conncecting transona.

[h0twired]

Winnipeg has to stop thinking about building 20-30+ storey high residential towers. That is the last thing Winnipeg needs right now and it just won't happen due to the developer risk in building just a huge complex in hopes that it will be rented to full capacity.

Instead Winnipeg should concetrate on building mid-size residential in the East Exchange/Waterfront areas and on the fringes of the West Exchange, West Broadway, St. Boniface and Osborne Village.

Imagine walking down Waterfront, or Sherbrook, or Tache and seeing nothing but residential buildings like these.





Top the area off with walkable, rideable and sit-able areas like this along the river.




We DO NOT need residential on Portage or Graham. Leave those streets for primarily offices and business people. Ensure that there is ground floor retail, but keep it mostly offices to create a dense "working core" that better justifies the viability of LRT traffic. Keep residential on the "outskirts" of the core where it is still very walkable/rideable distances without watering down the core with apartment blocks.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by h0twired

We DO NOT need residential on Portage or Graham. Leave those streets for primarily offices and business people. Ensure that there is ground floor retail, but keep it mostly offices to create a dense "working core" that better justifies the viability of LRT traffic. Keep residential on the "outskirts" of the core where it is still very walkable/rideable distances without watering down the core with apartment blocks.

I agree - we should focus residential development in distinct neighbourhoods, in order to build up the critical mass necessary to support local retail and services. Lets not spread our downtown population out too thinly - Rather, focus residential in the exchange, broadway-assiniboine, central park, spence, etc...

[1ajs]

umm the shot showing 26th ave in calgary has 20 plus floor buildings on it............... spent many a summer hanging out around there..

why must we have comercial only areas that just makes for dead zones

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

umm the shot showing 26th ave in calgary has 20 plus floor buildings on it............... spent many a summer hanging out around there..

why must we have comercial only areas that just makes for dead zones

I think the inference is that we should work on building up existing residential neighbourhoods downtown before starting new ones.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

umm the shot showing 26th ave in calgary has 20 plus floor buildings on it............... spent many a summer hanging out around there..

why must we have comercial only areas that just makes for dead zones

Because when you segment the areas appropriately you reduce the number of so-called "dead zones". Downtown Calgary might be dead after working hours, but it is crazy busy during the day. Then in the evenings the residential/retail areas are filled with people.

If you distribute everything evenly all of the areas feel "meh" and you have to walk much more to get from place to place because everything is spread out.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I think the inference is that we should work on building up existing residential neighbourhoods downtown before starting new ones.

Exactly. 26th Ave in Calgary is VERY high density which would support the taller buildings (even though the area is filled with 4-5 storey walkups and townhouses). Winnipeg has no real demand for that kind of density yet.

I was also using the picture more for the walkway that the building.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Also we currently have a infrastructure deficit of $4 billion adding fancy underground LRT lines downtown and asking the feds to pony up again it just won't happen. Also the rumor was that once the uofm rapid transit line is done the next one planed was for a line conncecting transona.

True, but it'd be extremely hard to put surface LRT onto Portage from Vaughn. As for transcona, how could it connect to downtown? If i saw the routing right, it went from East Kildolnan to Sage Creek, and that was it

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Winnipeg has to stop thinking about building 20-30+ storey high residential towers. That is the last thing Winnipeg needs right now and it just won't happen due to the developer risk in building just a huge complex in hopes that it will be rented to full capacity.

Instead Winnipeg should concetrate on building mid-size residential in the East Exchange/Waterfront areas and on the fringes of the West Exchange, West Broadway, St. Boniface and Osborne Village.

We DO NOT need residential on Portage or Graham. Leave those streets for primarily offices and business people. Ensure that there is ground floor retail, but keep it mostly offices to create a dense "working core" that better justifies the viability of LRT traffic. Keep residential on the "outskirts" of the core where it is still very walkable/rideable distances without watering down the core with apartment blocks.

Winnipeg has a 1% (maybe less) vacancy rate for rental units. We should then make apartments for rent, instead of condominiums. Then, would a 20-30 floor residential unit be plausible? Plus most people work Downtown. Imagine saving hundreds of dollars on commuting, and an hour or two, if your workplace was a few blocks from your high-rise home. Just slash the rates to something reasonable. Lets say, $750/2 bedroom?

I definitely agree with mid-rises on Waterfront Drive. The Winnipeg skyline sucks when you're looking at it from St. Boniface haha

Main. and. Higgins. If we can clean up the area from crime, maybe we can put down a TONNE of housing. It'd be on the outskirts of Downtown, and be close enough to participate in Winnipeg nightlife. Also, the land values would probably ensure low rent. Then, Portage and Graham would be just retail and office. Maybe hotels!

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Exactly. 26th Ave in Calgary is VERY high density which would support the taller buildings (even though the area is filled with 4-5 storey walkups and townhouses). Winnipeg has no real demand for that kind of density yet.

I was also using the picture more for the walkway that the building.

The Beltlines mostly smaller apartments anyway (I've been in Calgary a few times). True, but if we're going to get vacancies for people who need apartments, you got to build alot of units. if you need alot of units and have little space, you go up! remember, 1% vacancy in Winnipeg

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Bdog

I agree - we should focus residential development in distinct neighbourhoods, in order to build up the critical mass necessary to support local retail and services. Lets not spread our downtown population out too thinly - Rather, focus residential in the exchange, broadway-assiniboine, central park, spence, etc...

THATS THE THING. In the Exchange, theres ALOT of possible refurbishments of buildings for rent. When someone wants to create a new building though, its automatically put off. When the City of Winnipeg allows moderate change to the building, we could have more developers going "HEY! We can create more units and put on a modern addition on top of it! Mr. Insertnamehere, start designing plans for 24 new units)

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Winnipeg has a 1% (maybe less) vacancy rate for rental units. We should then make apartments for rent, instead of condominiums. Then, would a 20-30 floor residential unit be plausible? Plus most people work Downtown. Imagine saving hundreds of dollars on commuting, and an hour or two, if your workplace was a few blocks from your high-rise home. Just slash the rates to something reasonable. Lets say, $750/2 bedroom?

$750/month for a 2 bedroom in a NEW building?

I have a feeling you have NO idea what new construction costs. A new concrete tower costs about $250-300 sq ft to build (depending on finishings).

At $750/month you would have to be able to build each unit for less that $100,000 and ensure 100% occupancy to BREAK EVEN.

So $100,000 at $250/sq ft gets you a 400 sq ft 2 bedroom apartment. Not exactly feasible. Add in the fact that Manitoba has rent control makes the city even less attractive to build in.

If you want 20+ storey apartments to be built, Manitoba would have to drop their rent controls and rents would pretty much have to double.

Originally Posted by armorand93

I definitely agree with mid-rises on Waterfront Drive. The Winnipeg skyline sucks when you're looking at it from St. Boniface haha

Mid-rises should be built EVERYWHERE surrounding the core for the next 20 years. Screw towers. Mid rises start a flow of people into areas that allow for more dense populations with a larger footprint. Towers are impressive but only necessary where high density areas need to be even higher.

Originally Posted by armorand93

Main. and. Higgins. If we can clean up the area from crime, maybe we can put down a TONNE of housing. It'd be on the outskirts of Downtown, and be close enough to participate in Winnipeg nightlife. Also, the land values would probably ensure low rent. Then, Portage and Graham would be just retail and office. Maybe hotels!

Gentrification and density is like a virus. Start at the core and work your way out. To try and turn around the worst spot first is a sure recipe for failure.

Add a few thousand people in each of the East and West Exchange areas, St. Boniface (along Tache), West Broadway, Central Park and the Osborne Village and Higgins and Main will take care of itself in due time as property values rise with the gentrification of the adjacent areas.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Gentrification and density is like a virus. Start at the core and work your way out. To try and turn around the worst spot first is a sure recipe for failure.

Add a few thousand people in each of the East and West Exchange areas, St. Boniface (along Tache), West Broadway, Central Park and the Osborne Village and Higgins and Main will take care of itself in due time as property values rise with the gentrification of the adjacent areas.

Aww, you're screwing with the pie in the sky nature of this thread.