Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Bdog

My goodness, this mentality is just depressing. A homegrown, tech company is looking to invest tens of millions in new office space downtown on the edges of the exchange. This company would keep and bring over 2000 well-paying jobs downtown, most of those jobs held by a young demographic with disposable income. Demand for restaurants, housing and services in the area would continue to increase. Amazingly, this is proposed on a vacant lot that's been used for decades as PARKING, and not a single building would be demolished.

What's our response?

Not tall enough.
Logo won't look good from CMHR.
They might go bankrupt.
Hope we don't give them a cent.
Tech companies aren't profitable.
Some random parking lot I know of downtown is better for this.
201 Portage lost a few tenants, put them there.
Are they even really a tech company?
Very bad look when families take a CMHR selfie.
Skip is for lazy suburbanites anyways.

That's a pretty good synopsis

But there's nothing wrong with expressing reservations. I think it's prudent to be cautious with these sorts of things.

Ultimately I think I can get behind the City selling parcel 4 for a buck if it means a big tech development and lots of jobs materializing. I'm sure there will be enough strings attached to ensure that the City is covered in case the company falls apart or otherwise fails to get the project built.

If nothing else, this plan surely beats the pants off the Canalta hotel that was once pitched for that site.

[Biff]

I heard that Skip had plans for their tower 3 to also contain a Canalta motel. They haven't given up on that site.

[esquire]

^ Oh good! Hopefully it will have a sweet VLT room!

[Biff]

They are still planning a waterpark too...

Rendering

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Really? Completely disagree. Large tech companies also want large floor plates... not as possible at the earl's site.

Sorry, but how is nobody seeing this?

Tech companies thrive on campuses, and at the forks you have one. Earl's? Not unless you're doing it yourself. Tons of apartment options IMMEDIATELY around once developed, attractions at the forks, and a very easy sense of community. Considering also that Skip obviously attracts tech people and outside labour, you want the new or like-minded to be in a thriving comfortable area. Comparatively, Earl's is isolated.

The Earl's site is a great apartment site but Skip basically get a built-in campus at the Forks. Absolute no-brainer that also helps the Forks and the governmenst trumpet this project.

How are you not seeing that this "campus" thing you describe is already exactly what Skip has in the Exchange?

They have employees located in several buildings all within a 2 minute walk, tons of restaurants around, lots of employees live in the Exchange (Boyce Lofts and Porter House are almost ALL Skip people), and for those people moving to Winnipeg – anything they could "desire" is right around them. Hell, almost all the other big tech companies here are already in The Exchange.

If they move to The Forks, they won't be able to consolidate operations because The Forks won't let them building a single building that's large enough for 2,500+ employees – and they shouldn't. The Forks is trying to build an active neighbourhood, as just about any CBD (especially here) in any city will show you – offices don't do much for an area after 6pm.

If Skip were to go to Main Street, they get the best of all worlds – still close to The Exchange (where many employees already live), right by The Forks, prominent frontage, and they help with "giving back" to the city, which they've said is a desire of theirs. Or, again, buy the lot next to their existing building and make the hub there.

The Forks has seemingly already had lots of interest, it doesn't need Skip on site by any stretch.

[esquire]

^ There is room for a fairly large floorplate building north of 201 Portage (right up to McDermot). What if Skip the Dishes builds a 15 storey building there to function as its corporate HQ, and maintains its presence in the other buildings it occupies?

For that matter, which buildings do they currently occupy? I was only aware of 423 Main.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by Biff

I was told, 3 or 4 - 6 to 10 storey buildings.

Yes, I've heard similar numbers as well.

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by esquire

For that matter, which buildings do they currently occupy? I was only aware of 423 Main.

At minimum you can add 136 Market and 140 Bannatyne to that.

[esquire]

^ Ah, OK, so that's where the parkade/office building on McDermot rendering came from, it would be pretty well in the middle of the East Exchange Skip District.

Keeping Skip the Dishes in the Exchange District could potentially eliminate vacancies altogether in that entire area. What about the West Exchange? Reiss and their several empty buildings, as well as that block on McDermot that Hydro wanted to gut and convert into a substation a few years back. Maybe some space in the new Marketlands development. It would be pretty amazing if they all got filled up.

[bomberjet]

Tech companies lose money all the time. It's the long play. If you're losing money but expanding rapidly, that is the cause. Also 'losing' money doesn't mean they're paying out billions of dollars.

Doesn't skip, or their parent company, also administer other companies on the tech side. Like Uber eats? Could they be making money there to offset the loses of Skip?

Regardless, I don't see how it's a bad thing a company wants to build a campus downtown. If Parcel 4 goes their way, that'd be fine with me.

[Curmudgeon]

The Forks is a national historic site, and the parcel 4 land should be developed as mixed residential/commercial, not developed as office towers. Put that somewhere in the myriad sea of parking lots south of Portage. It's all about them wanting exposure. Too bad, this city has some standards, and hopefully at least a little bit of pride.

Can you imagine Vancouver considering a Skip the Dishes campus with tower blocks on Granville Island?

[esquire]

^ In fairness, if there's commercial space going in there anyway, what difference does it make if it's our favourite food delivery app or not?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ In fairness, if there's commercial space going in there anyway, what difference does it make if it's our favourite food delivery app or not?

Commercial meaning some ground level stores and restaurants/pub, a boutique hotel (no, not a CanAlta that looks like it was designed for Headingley) and a hostel oriented towards a leafy and green public square with a fountain, not 3 or 4 ten storey towers.

Don't jump at the first possibility for development. Remember, we almost got a interstate style motel with a couple of waterslides adjacent to the CMHR. It also would have wanted a large parking lot as well.

It would have looked like this with a huge parking lot. This city really dodged a bullet.

https://exp.cdn-hotels.com/hotels/20...00454eb9_b.jpg

[esquire]

^ I take your point, but there's a significant difference between a Days Inn type roadside hotel and a major corporate headquarters that will lock in hundreds if not thousands of (I'm guessing) fairly high paying, good jobs into downtown Winnipeg. You can still have a nice, interesting mixed use area with a few extra floors of office workers on top of what was initially envisioned...

[Curmudgeon]

The Forks isn't the place for it. There is not a shortage of land in the central part of the city, example in the west portion of the Exchange, that whole block of William west of Adelaide to Dagmar on both sides would be perfect for a few 6-10 storey buildings. With the Red River Princess campus it would continue to encourage growth in that area.

[bomberjet]

^What would be your proposal for the parcel 4 lands?

[Curmudgeon]

^ mixed residential/commercial, in a style sympathetic to the adjoining east Exchange and Union Station and complimentary to the CMHR. Oriented towards and the two roadways would intersect at a leafy central public square with a fountain, which would be flanked by commercial development, perhaps including a boutique hotel and/or a youth hostel. Narrow streets oriented entirely towards pedestrians and no surface parking. There's plenty of parking within walking distance, parking will be permitted on street and residents will utilize underground parkades.

Something like the top image in this article, but better and with public square more treed and with better gardens, perhaps using only foliage native to the Red River Valley. Image can be enlarged.

https://intercongreen.com/2014/05/27...just-location/

[esquire]

^ For what it's worth, those types of spaces work best when they're surrounded by density. Otherwise you end up with places that look nice physically, but tend to be empty and abandoned much of the time.

[Curmudgeon]

^ There is density, and it will increase. The area is adjacent to the east Exchange as well as old St. Boniface, which continues to see increasing density. As the crow flies, parcel 4 is about 100 metres from what will be Winnipeg's tallest building, which will be residential. There are also plans for new residential in nearby east Fort Rouge and don't forget the Broadway-Assiniboine area.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Biff

I heard that Skip had plans for their tower 3 to also contain a Canalta motel. They haven't given up on that site.

I heard it will also include an indoor waterpark!

Edit: Oh i see you mentioned that already.