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  #221  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2018, 1:01 PM
buzzg buzzg is offline
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The old rail ROW would have been perfect for RT/AT. Would have been able to have busses go south from Portage and loop through Taylor or Lindenwoods to eventually connect with SWBRT and back downtown.

The worst part about the fact they sold it off so quick was that the developments are awful. Hideous, compact, no yards, face back lanes on both sides. My aunt bought in the ones north of Corydon and absolutely hates it. Feels like she lives in a prison. They were also 2 years behind schedule.
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  #222  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2018, 8:10 PM
Bluenote Bluenote is offline
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Wasn’t it a few years back that city and the bands were all cool with the widening of Kenaston and the only hold up was the feds. Now the bands are not for it? Or they want money. What’s the deal anyway. Like the real issue here.

The city could like it’s done to all the homeowners just expropriate this land can they not ? Or do the people who have lived there all this time have no rights and yet an old abandoned army base given to the bands have rights ? This seems a stretch to me and if it is the case it’s prerty unfair to the home owners losing their homes to this.

We could always play hardball. Nice cement wall down Kenaston amd get rid of the sidewalk on one side. Get rid of the center median and add another lane each way. Amd allow ZERO access from this urban reserve to Kenaston. Wonder how that would float.....

Sorry I’m bitter. But for the last what 20 years we been fkd over by the bands and the feds fighting over this land. And now we are at it again. Like fffs
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  #223  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 5:23 AM
KellyEdwards KellyEdwards is offline
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Wasn’t it a few years back that city and the bands were all cool with the widening of Kenaston and the only hold up was the feds. Now the bands are not for it? Or they want money. What’s the deal anyway. Like the real issue here.

The city could like it’s done to all the homeowners just expropriate this land can they not ? Or do the people who have lived there all this time have no rights and yet an old abandoned army base given to the bands have rights ? This seems a stretch to me and if it is the case it’s prerty unfair to the home owners losing their homes to this.

We could always play hardball. Nice cement wall down Kenaston amd get rid of the sidewalk on one side. Get rid of the center median and add another lane each way. Amd allow ZERO access from this urban reserve to Kenaston. Wonder how that would float.....

Sorry I’m bitter. But for the last what 20 years we been fkd over by the bands and the feds fighting over this land. And now we are at it again. Like fffs
This is why a good, working relationship is key.

Remember:

- It was the Feds who ripped off (under-delivered) on the amount of lands for reserves;
- It was the Feds who refused to hear the case for 110 consecutive years;
- It was the Feds who challenged it for the last 35 years (and which is still not settled for 1 of 7 of the reserves);
- It was the Feds who ignored the First Nations and attempted to sell the lands to the Canada Lands Corporation (CLC)
- It landed in court, the Feds refused to negotiate and sought the court remedies;
- The Feds lost in court in a decisive decision;
- The Feds appealed it and lost it in another decisive decision (3/3);
- The Feds (Harper) halted all negotiations and made a campaign promise not to appeal the decision if elected;

Today, 1 of the 7 First Nation still requires a Treaty Land Entitlement (TLE) settlement of around $106 million.

32 acres per person X 7,300 members = 233,600 acres - 21,500 existing acres = 212,100 acres

212,100 acres X $500/acre (average for TLE settlements) = $106M.

Even if offered in a timely manner, the First Nation would require a community vote in majority of approval for the $106M settlement offer.

Unless all the lawsuits and land claims are settled will I personally see more cooperation between the groups. Considering that the Feds have violated law for 151 out of 151 years that Canada has been a country, there needs to be more work done.

An Agreement in Principal was signed by T1 FNs and the Feds kind of recently. Such an agreement does not entail the need to surrender the lands to the City of Winnipeg.

And by law (as we've seen with legal precedence with urban reserves in Saskatchewan), a municipal government cannot deny an urban reserve, cannot deny a Municipal Services Agreement (MSA) nor do anything detrimental to the accessibility of well-being of an urban reserve.

Otherwise, First Nations can simply place a homeless shelter, lagoon, open-pit garbage dump or other eyesores on an urban reserve.

The relationship needs to be a working one.

Rather than commit to lateral violence (like towards your peers like First Nations), the movement should be directed to the adversaries (the federal government) to get things done.

By settling these land claims and lawsuits through negotiations, energy and efforts are now focused on well-being and development rather than revengeful or meaningless tactics as we've seen for the last 151 years.

Kenaston's widening is 100% possible. The City of Winnipeg needs to come up with an opportunity that the First Nations cannot resist and only then will we see movement in this gridlock and the Feds need to finally take leadership by resolving these long-standing issues that have stemmed since Canada became a country.

With every First Nation newborn, the cost of a claim goes up $16,000. Considering that the First Nation's population is 1.1 million and 50% of that number didn't exist 25 years ago, Canada could've saved $8.8 billion if they paid out land claims before those 550,000 First Nations were born.

Today, that land claim number is at $20 billion to settle and rising everyday. That's just in land claims alone. Lawsuits, funding short falls and so much more push that number into the multi-billions.

Thanks to the Treaties, Canada has legal permission to access natural resources which account for $254B in annual GDP. Canada's only receipt for the land are the Treaties (which are still upheld in Ottawa).

Considering that Canada reaps those benefits everyday without having to sue First Nations says that First Nations are upholding their side of the Treaties whereas Canada's mentality has changed with it's federal leadership term-over-term.

I think Canadians need to look beyond the simplicity and realize that this is a much more complicated situation than it is. It's workable and do-able. All it takes is for First Nations to have support by solidarity for moving past 150-year-old issues. Because when First Nations are constantly suing, protesting and taking up media space, it's almost like First Nations are crying wolf.

For the first time in Canadian history, information is easily accessible and the full breadth of the complexity of these relationships can be realized. As a result, everyday Canadians should stand behind First Nation in sorting these long-standing issues out.

Because if this was settled 50 years ago, Kapyong would've went to the CLC, Kenaston would've been widened 5-years-ago and we'd be in a completely progressive world.

Last edited by KellyEdwards; Nov 13, 2018 at 5:39 AM.
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  #224  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 7:01 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
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Now the bands are not for it? Or they want money. What’s the deal anyway. Like the real issue here.
Separate from the widening of Kenaston, an urban reserve normally negotiates a services agreement with the municipality that contains it. This would include things like sewer, water, garbage collection, emergency response, policing, etc. Similar to what your property taxes cover on privately held land. If Winnipeg is interested in leasing a portion of the urban reserve to widen Kenaston they would then have a payment for use of that land going back to the urban reserve. In this case it isn't necessarily that either side is not interested, not willing to make a deal or playing hardball. Rather this is a complicated deal for both sides and they are trying to get the best deal possible for their own interests without having to give up too much in return.

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Originally Posted by Bluenote View Post
We could always play hardball. Nice cement wall down Kenaston amd get rid of the sidewalk on one side. Get rid of the center median and add another lane each way. Amd allow ZERO access from this urban reserve to Kenaston. Wonder how that would float.....
Or the same could be done on the eastern side of that stretch of road. Trying to isolate a piece of land is not a reasonable approach.

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Sorry I’m bitter. But for the last what 20 years we been fkd over by the bands and the feds fighting over this land. And now we are at it again. Like fffs
The only people to be made at here is the federal government that needlessly tied up the land settlement for that long. The bands had a clear and legitimate claim over it when it was declared surplus and the federal government should have quickly come forward, acknowledged that and come to a fair settlement instead of all the delay tactics they did.
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  #225  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 8:08 PM
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Let's keep in mind nothing will happen with the site for a number of years. Lots of time to figure out who pays for a sliver of land along Kenaston.

I'd be interested to know how the City will sell water to the urban reserve? The reserve lands will not be Winnipeg, even though technically within the Cities boundaries. So the City has no right under the current arrangement to sell water.
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  #226  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 8:14 PM
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I'd be interested to know how the City will sell water to the urban reserve? The reserve lands will not be Winnipeg, even though technically within the Cities boundaries. So the City has no right under the current arrangement to sell water.
They made an arrangement for the Madison urban reserve and Peguis on Portage Avenue so they must already have a formula in place.
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  #227  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 8:15 PM
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Right. Interesting. Must have to do with the First Nation aspect.
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  #228  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 9:04 PM
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  #229  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2018, 11:44 PM
scryer scryer is offline
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Let's keep in mind nothing will happen with the site for a number of years. Lots of time to figure out who pays for a sliver of land along Kenaston.
Another 10 years I give it at least... 7 to get it approved and then 3 years for construction.
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  #230  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 2:44 PM
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Another 10 years I give it at least... 7 to get it approved and then 3 years for construction.
Seems about right.
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  #231  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 2:56 PM
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^ If that timeline holds true, it would mean that the Barracks closed while I was still in university and might not get redeveloped until I'm pushing 50 and starting to think about retirement. I mean, I know things move a little slower in Winnipeg but yeesh.
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  #232  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 3:07 PM
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^ If that timeline holds true, it would mean that the Barracks closed while I was still in university and might not get redeveloped until I'm pushing 50 and starting to think about retirement. I mean, I know things move a little slower in Winnipeg but yeesh.
Meanwhile in Montreal they have a light rail project from conception in 2016, to ground breaking 2018, and to first leg operation in 2021. I mean I'm sure the mob is involved somehow, but that's how you get things done.
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  #233  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 3:12 PM
Bluenote Bluenote is offline
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Meanwhile in Montreal they have a light rail project from conception in 2016, to ground breaking 2018, and to first leg operation in 2021. I mean I'm sure the mob is involved somehow, but that's how you get things done.
That’s different. If you are in Quebec you get whatever you want. The feds will pour money at your like crazy just to keep you part of Canada.
We are the west. They don’t care one bit about us ( the feds ) hence why this project has taken so long. If this was in Ottawa or Quebec. It would be a small city by now.
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  #234  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 3:48 PM
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I believe the parts near Taylor are already prepping for construction.
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  #235  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 4:26 PM
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I believe the parts near Taylor are already prepping for construction.
There's no construction prep going on, the only activity on the site is slow demolition of the old Barracks buildings since they are no longer useful.

No one can build or site prep anything since no one technically has proper possession of the lands, which is also why the city hasn't been able to acquire the lands for widening. I know they wanted to pitch to both groups (feds and first nations) to buy necessary land before a deal was made but I guess that didn't go much further
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  #236  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 4:30 PM
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Swear I read somewhere that that was the first part being developed and they were already starting, my bad. The NE corner of Kenaston & Taylor won't be affected as the expansion would be on the west side. None of the property on the east is to be expropriated, and there's already ROW setback in place.
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  #237  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 4:31 PM
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^ On the subject of the demolition, can we all agree that "Aboriginal Smashers" is one of the greatest names ever for a demolition company?

It would probably also be a great name for a wrestling tag-team somewhere out there.
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  #238  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 5:57 PM
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There's no construction prep going on, the only activity on the site is slow demolition of the old Barracks buildings since they are no longer useful.

No one can build or site prep anything since no one technically has proper possession of the lands, which is also why the city hasn't been able to acquire the lands for widening. I know they wanted to pitch to both groups (feds and first nations) to buy necessary land before a deal was made but I guess that didn't go much further
Even without the unique issues of this property (urban reserve, road widening), this is probably nowhere near the point where any construction can occur. It still requires the creation of a secondary plan, a subdivision and rezoning application (most of the land is currently zoned for rural residential), servicing agreement, and any required variances... all of that before you can get the first building permits.
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  #239  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 8:03 PM
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^ With all of those issues in play, 10 years is starting to sound like a fairly optimistic timeline.
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  #240  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 10:45 PM
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^ With all of those issues in play, 10 years is starting to sound like a fairly optimistic timeline.
Yes, it may be about as far into the future as the days of an active army base is into the past.
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