Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[headhorse]

skipthedishes has never made any money and definitely should not be getting assistance or funding from any form of government in it's search for a new HQ.

[Wpg_Guy]

Creating a tech campus is too risky, none of these companies are profitable, Uber still operates at a 3 billion loss, in ten years this tech boom could go the way of the .com boom.

[wardlow]

The "tech campus" concept of several smaller buildings set among a bunch of landscaping and parking (duhh) is lame and doesn't fit the context -- this is downtown Winnipeg, not suburban Palo Alto. This just sounds like another classic megaproject dressed up in contemporary buzzwords.

Plus, a megaproject on a significant piece of downtown real estate centred on... Skip the Dishes? The company's a great success story, but they've got a lot of work to do if they're ever plan on turning a profit. I would imagine they're currently losing a lot of ground to new, better competitors like DoorDash.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Hecate

But completely possible at the Hudson’s bay building, or is that too old and not good enough for ‘skip the dishes’. Large floor plates in an historic building at a prominent location. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than across the street from a human rights museum? Imaging seeing a huge ass glowing skip the dishes sign making its way into every picture of the museum or for every family taking their picture in front of the Winnipeg sign. Not necessary. Skip is not my idea of a tech company... it’s a third party fast food delivery system that uses an app for people in the suburbs who are too lazy to go out. McDonald’s has an app... is it a tech company? Anyway, everyone wants more residents downtown... keep parcel four green until something worthy can go there. Skip isn’t it.

Why would anyone want to go into HB instead of a new build?

You have a bunch of younger employees, sometimes fished out from other cities/countries, and you don't think they'd prefer being near the forks rather than Portage Place? They'd live next to their work.

And signage is easily controlled, but we don't sacrifice a good idea because of something so small.

And Skip is 100000% a tech company. They're not a food delivery tech company much like uber isn't a cab service. It's their tech side that saw them get bought out for $130M. It's the tech side that has kept uber well ahead of someone like Duffy's Taxi, who also has an app. Tech is their value, tech is their people, tech is what they do.

And who are we holding out for that provides better value? Maybe they'res someone, but why should we play God with the market's interest? Not worth the risk, and certainly not our place. Anyone else interested can talk to the Forks and the City/Province just like Skip has.

We have to remember, we're bystanders hoping for some kind of "greater real estate good", but who with private interest would favour an aging heritage building with a million restriction built in an huge operating costs?

Originally Posted by wardlow

The "tech campus" concept of several smaller buildings set among a bunch of landscaping and parking (duhh) is lame and doesn't fit the context -- this is downtown Winnipeg, not suburban Palo Alto. This just sounds like another classic megaproject dressed up in contemporary buzzwords.

Plus, a megaproject on a significant piece of downtown real estate centred on... Skip the Dishes? The company's a great success story, but they've got a lot of work to do if they're ever plan on turning a profit. I would imagine they're currently losing a lot of ground to new, better competitors like DoorDash.

It's a mini tech campus because skip only needs to build their building... many other parts of the campus are merely coincidentally planned. The living space, shops, and of course existing amenities. I don't know where the feared overload of parking came from... whatever Skip proposes must satisfy the Forks anyway. Nor is it a megaproject.

Nor is Skip Amazon... but they are successful and highly valued in the tech community, and backed by a larger owner. I wouldn't see them as losing ground to new guys, but as leading a field that new guys decided was valuable enough to enter. Their proprietary tech is highly regarded.

Strike while the iron's hot!

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Creating a tech campus is too risky, none of these companies are profitable, Uber still operates at a 3 billion loss, in ten years this tech boom could go the way of the .com boom.

Self-driving cabs are the way of the future. Canada will lag behind as always, but by 2030 certainly.

[Spocket]

Okay, not gonna lie, I have no clue what Skip The Dishes is or what they do. However, how the hell are they still in business if they're operating at a loss? I mean, if a business loses money year after year, how can that be considered anybody's idea of a success story? That's the epitome of failure right there.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by wardlow

The "tech campus" concept of several smaller buildings set among a bunch of landscaping and parking (duhh) is lame and doesn't fit the context -- this is downtown Winnipeg, not suburban Palo Alto. This just sounds like another classic megaproject dressed up in contemporary buzzwords.

Plus, a megaproject on a significant piece of downtown real estate centred on... Skip the Dishes? The company's a great success story, but they've got a lot of work to do if they're ever plan on turning a profit. I would imagine they're currently losing a lot of ground to new, better competitors like DoorDash.

Representative of social isolation and decline, as well as an economy that is generating largely low wage jobs with no security.

Agree 100%, not a good fit for downtown. The building needs to be hollowed out so the floor plan is amenable to housing, with some retail on the main level and basement. The parkade should be demolished and replaced by similar height and sympathetic development (so as not to obstruct or interfere with the view down Memorial Blvd.) with underground parking.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Okay, not gonna lie, I have no clue what Skip The Dishes is or what they do. However, how the hell are they still in business if they're operating at a loss? I mean, if a business loses money year after year, how can that be considered anybody's idea of a success story? That's the epitome of failure right there.

Essentially a food delivery service for restaurants who previously had no delivery, which is most of them. Speaking to a Skip driver a few weeks ago while picking up my own order, he said the majority of his deliveries are fast food, for which including the delivery fee, people are paying $17 or $18 for a combo!

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Essentially a food delivery service for restaurants who previously had no delivery, which is most of them. Speaking to a Skip driver a few weeks ago while picking up my own order, he said the majority of his deliveries are fast food, for which including the delivery fee, people are paying $17 or $18 for a combo!

Thanks for the info. I still have to wonder how they're still in business, however.

[esquire]

I think I'm getting over my hangups and can say I'm behind this. The area where they'd build this thing is basically a transitional site anyway, so what's the big deal if they design buildings a few storeys taller than there would otherwise be.

This way even if Skip goes belly up there would be a tangible legacy that others could benefit from in the future. And if they don't, we end up with this so-called tech company headquarters downtown.

[Biff]

The reason it is proposed for Parcel 4 at the Forks is that it is a City owned lot. The Forks do not own it. The City has apparently been negotiating with Skip for some time. This is likely why there is no real push to have it located elsewhere downtown. The City has a lot to offer (figuratively and literally) with Parcel 4 that couldn't be offered elsewhere.

[hello]

As long as this development fits into the Forks overall vision then this City should support this project and its largest tech company. I doubt Skip would fully move their whole operation out of the City but hundreds of jobs could be relocated. Calgary has a 100 million dollar innovation fund and is giving away million dollar cheques to help grow the tech sector and support businesses who expand operations in the City. Calgary also has way more A class office space then Winnipeg for a very reasonable price and is a better City to attract talent too. I think that threat is very real. I surely hope we support Skip and fight to keep good jobs in Winnipeg. Skip employs a ton of young people who live downtown with a good amount of discretionary income that help support local business. The trickle down effect of having Skip in the City is huge.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

The reason it is proposed for Parcel 4 at the Forks is that it is a City owned lot. The Forks do not own it. The City has apparently been negotiating with Skip for some time. This is likely why there is no real push to have it located elsewhere downtown. The City has a lot to offer (figuratively and literally) with Parcel 4 that couldn't be offered elsewhere.

I get that land assembly will never be easier than with The Forks site and the City's lot, but surely there are other viable options downtown?

Just spitballing here, but what about fitting into existing office towers? We keep hearing about the high office vacancy rate, but what about taking up half or more of the Portage and Main buildings as leases expire?

Or what about building on a big lot like one of the Cityplace parking lots and using one of the existing buildings around there like 330 St. Mary or 175 Hargrave? Or WCB? The WCB's parking lot alone could probably accommodate a few big buildings. What about replacing Portage Place?

I think I would be OK with saying yes to The Forks for fear of having Skip go to the suburbs or another city altogether, but I would be curious to know how many other downtown options have been considered.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Just spitballing here, but what about fitting into existing office towers? We keep hearing about the high office vacancy rate, but what about taking up half or more of the Portage and Main buildings as leases expire?

Or what about building on a big lot like one of the Cityplace parking lots and using one of the existing buildings around there like 330 St. Mary or 175 Hargrave? Or WCB? The WCB's parking lot alone could probably accommodate a few big buildings. What about replacing Portage Place?

What is the price to aquire these empty lots for construction or picking up leases in various buildings (which is why I think they want to build their own).

My belief is the City will give them Parcel 4 for $1 and other incentives. How does looking at a private lot (like SkyCity for $7 million) compete?

[esquire]

Fair enough. I guess the City (and EDW too, who has been reportedly exerting pressure in this) would love to have a shiny trophy consisting of a flashy new tech building filled with knowledge workers standing prominently on the city skyline at The Forks.

Location issues aside, do you know what we're looking at in terms of size and massing? 2,400 workers is a lot... just spitballing, but I would imagine that could easily fill a traditional 35+ storey office tower. A tech campus would be lower-slung, but even still I would think you'd need 10+ storey buildings covering much of the site to house that many workers? It would probably be approaching GWL's campus in size...

[rkspec]

so the wife was just there and said there is an arcade there now.

Sweet!

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

Location issues aside, do you know what we're looking at in terms of size and massing?

I was told, 3 or 4 - 6 to 10 storey buildings.

[michelleb]

So what you're saying is: The Forks is competing with Skip for ownership of Parcel 4, and that's why the negotiations with the city are stalled? That's terrible news.

[Bdog]

My goodness, this mentality is just depressing. A homegrown, tech company is looking to invest tens of millions in new office space downtown on the edges of the exchange. This company would keep and bring over 2000 well-paying jobs downtown, most of those jobs held by a young demographic with disposable income. Demand for restaurants, housing and services in the area would continue to increase. Amazingly, this is proposed on a vacant lot that's been used for decades as PARKING, and not a single building would be demolished.

What's our response?

Not tall enough.
Logo won't look good from CMHR.
They might go bankrupt.
Hope we don't give them a cent.
Tech companies aren't profitable.
Some random parking lot I know of downtown is better for this.
201 Portage lost a few tenants, put them there.
Are they even really a tech company?
Very bad look when families take a CMHR selfie.
Skip is for lazy suburbanites anyways.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

Fair enough. I guess the City (and EDW too, who has been reportedly exerting pressure in this) would love to have a shiny trophy consisting of a flashy new tech building filled with knowledge workers standing prominently on the city skyline at The Forks.

Location issues aside, do you know what we're looking at in terms of size and massing? 2,400 workers is a lot... just spitballing, but I would imagine that could easily fill a traditional 35+ storey office tower. A tech campus would be lower-slung, but even still I would think you'd need 10+ storey buildings covering much of the site to house that many workers? It would probably be approaching GWL's campus in size...

Yes, exactly. A tech company isn’t going to build an office tower. It’s a collaborative industry where you have to have people together in large numbers. Grandiose towers are also a symbol of hierarchy, which is the opposite of the tech ethos. Apple might be the world’s largest and richest company, but it doesn’t have a 200 storey head office in Silicon Valley. It would be something like Great-West but smaller, I’m guessing.