Basketball in Canada

[elly63]

One thing it points out to me and something that I have been preaching about forever is that outside NBA/NFL/NHL there are highly skilled players who for one reason or another don't play in those leagues. The clods who gather around the water cooler in their pools who bow at the altar of the mainstream American leagues to the exception of all else have their heads buried deeply in the sand (and seem proud of it) I believe it was Frank Mahovlich in 1972 who said "Give the Russians a football and in two years they'd win the Super Bowl" An exaggeration, for sure, but it makes the point.

I don't want to sound off against the Canadian team because I thought they did well. Lack of team play and experience did them in, that is something that can be overcome.

[Djeffery]

Honestly, I think there will be a short term competitive sting at losing that will quickly be replaced by relief at not having to go to these Olympics. If there was ever an Olympics to miss, these would be them. Especially when your livelihood isn't dependent on doing good at Olympics to make endorsement deals.

[megadude]

Originally Posted by elly63

One thing it points out to me and something that I have been preaching about forever is that outside NBA/NFL/NHL there are highly skilled players who for one reason or another don't play in those leagues. The clods who gather around the water cooler in their pools who bow at the altar of the mainstream American leagues to the exception of all else have their heads buried deeply in the sand (and seem proud of it) I believe it was Frank Mahovlich in 1972 who said "Give the Russians a football and in two years they'd win the Super Bowl" An exaggeration, for sure, but it makes the point.

I don't want to sound off against the Canadian team because I thought they did well. Lack of team play and experience did them in, that is something that can be overcome.

It's also like college ball. If you're not in one of the power 5 conferences then you're not looked at as highly. Yet teams from the mid major conferences beat those power 5 teams several times a year in non-conference games. And lots of guys get drafted from those smaller schools ahead of guys at the bigger schools who came in as 4 or 5 star recruits too.

[elly63]

Canada beats Serbia to win bronze at FIBA U19 World Cup
The Canadian Press July 11 2021

RIGA, Latvia — Canada captured bronze at the FIBA U19 World Cup with a 101-92 win over Serbia on Sunday.

Montreal’s Bennedict Mathurian led the Canadians with 31 points, making 11-of-15 shots from the floor.

Ryan Nembhard of Aurora, Ont., chipped in 21 points and 10 assists and Mississauga, Ont., native Caleb Houstan added 17 points and five rebounds.

Mihailo Mausikic had a team-high 25 points, six rebounds for Serbia.

Canada was down 50-54 at the half but evened the score in the third quarter before pulling away in the fourth.

The result is Canada’s second-ever medal in the tournament following its first-place finish in 2017 in Cairo.

[Coldrsx]

Nice to see the CEBL on CBC Sports these days as well.

[isaidso]

Canada was really looking for a gold medal this time around but bronze is better than 4th. At least they're not leaving empty handed. Does anyone know why they put Canada on the same side of the bracket as the US though? In Boys, the USA is ranked #1 and Canada is ranked #2 by FIBA. Normally, you'd put them on opposite sides of the bracket so they don't meet until the gold medal game (assuming they get that far). It was also our first look at Elijah Fisher at a major competition. He just turned 17 so he'll be eligible to play in the 2023 FIBA U19 World Cup.

Regarding the CEBL, I'm also pleased to see it on tv but puzzled as to what's happening with the NBL. They're the older league yet get no coverage on tv and no mention on sportscasts. I'm assuming this is due to poor management and incompetence by the NBL. At this point, I just want that league folded into the CEBL.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by elly63

One thing it points out to me and something that I have been preaching about forever is that outside NBA/NFL/NHL there are highly skilled players who for one reason or another don't play in those leagues. The clods who gather around the water cooler in their pools who bow at the altar of the mainstream American leagues to the exception of all else have their heads buried deeply in the sand (and seem proud of it) I believe it was Frank Mahovlich in 1972 who said "Give the Russians a football and in two years they'd win the Super Bowl" An exaggeration, for sure, but it makes the point.

I don't want to sound off against the Canadian team because I thought they did well. Lack of team play and experience did them in, that is something that can be overcome.

A little late to this conversation but you know we’re still missing our two best players in SGA and Jamal Murray due to injury who are all-star caliber players in the NBA. I guarantee you if they played we’d beat every team by 20 in the qualifiers and probably get bronze or silver in the olympics.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I guarantee you if they played we’d beat every team by 20 in the qualifiers and probably get bronze or silver in the olympics.

I think that is assuming an awful lot and also denigrating a lot of good players and leagues in the world. The evidence was there, with NBA'ers, we lost.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by elly63

I think that is assuming an awful lot and also denigrating a lot of good players and leagues in the world. The evidence was there, with NBA'ers, we lost.

Yes, the international game is a little different. To your point, the Americans lost to Nigeria a few days ago.

[megadude]

Yup. Those two guys being there guarantees nothing. Most likely we beat the Czechs instead of losing to them (in OT) I would have to say, but nothing is guaranteed, even if you had the top 12 players in the NBA on one team. This is sometimes counterproductive because there's only one ball for 12 stars. In Canada's case it's like 3 or 4 stars and some solid players so you'd hope they could play well collectively instead of a bunch of guys all trying to take over.

Didn't the US beat Nigeria by like 80 before? May have been exhibition this time around, but the gap has definitely closed.

[thebasketballgeek]

I understand the other leagues players are great at professional basketball but the NBA has give or take the 500 best players in the world. While there are euroleaguers that are NBA caliber, Shai and Murray are legit top 50 players in the whole world. Just look at what Luka did for Slovenia (obviously neither of them are as good)

Also, the Nigeria team was all NBA players btw and are in major contention for a medal. Of course the international game is different but there is no reason we should have lost to the Czech Republic under normal circumstances. At the end of the day, Nurse didn’t make the adjustment to play small ball and played Cory Joseph about 30 minutes too much. Trey Lyles should not have played a single second.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

but the NBA has give or take the 500 best players in the world.

We used to think that in 1972 about NHL hockey, we were wrong.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by megadude

Yup. Those two guys being there guarantees nothing. Most likely we beat the Czechs instead of losing to them (in OT) I would have to say, but nothing is guaranteed, even if you had the top 12 players in the NBA on one team. This is sometimes counterproductive because there's only one ball for 12 stars. In Canada's case it's like 3 or 4 stars and some solid players so you'd hope they could play well collectively instead of a bunch of guys all trying to take over.

Amen!

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

At the end of the day, Nurse didn’t make the adjustment to play small ball and played Cory Joseph about 30 minutes too much. Trey Lyles should not have played a single second.

I know you didn't say this but I could take from your thinking that Nick Nurse, being an NBA coach, an NBA championship coach is amongst the best coaches in the NBA. And I think we can infer from your quote that he was outcoached by an Israeli who never played in the NBA. I think we can make that argument logically.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by elly63

We used to think that in 1972 about NHL hockey, we were wrong.

Eh the NHL is still undisputably the best league in the world there’s a reason that Canada and the US are usually the best teams out there. The best players from Finland, Sweden, and Russia also usually end up in the league.

The disparity in leagues compared to NBA I’d argue is still large enough that the Pistons, OKC and Rockets could probably beat the best euroleague team quite handily.

Again, the other leagues are still great as they are professionals after all but there are different levels to this.

Most of my points are irrational anyways I’m still disappointed by Canada’s performance at the qualifiers.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Yes, the international game is a little different. To your point, the Americans lost to Nigeria a few days ago.

And I'm not even talking about the nuances and skillsets of the FIBA game, I'm talking about attitudes, team play etc

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

I understand the other leagues players are great at professional basketball but the NBA has give or take the 500 best players in the world.

This was your quote, and the bolded is what I am disputing. To use your reasoning, guys playing in the Russian K League are not among the top 500 players.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by elly63

This was your quote, and the bolded is what I am disputing. To use your reasoning, guys playing in the Russian K League are not among the top 500 players.

The NBA has 450 players a year. Can you really tell me that a single Russian K league player is better then an NBA players? Maybe they’re better then the rookies but I think you clearly understand that my point is the NBA has vastly more talent then any other pro basketball league.

Either way at the end of the day Canada took an L and they need to make major changes to their program if they want any success internationally.

[elly63]

This is the last I will say on the matter, I think your quote of the best 500 players in the world play in the NBA is ludicrous. Of course the vast majority do, I don't think anyone is arguing that but your blanket statement to me was over the top.

And I was using the comparison about hockey and the assumption that all the best players play in the NHL when there are loads of good players in the KHL.

The original premise that I was making was how dangerous it is to be blinded by money, marketing and shiny objects which many North American water cooler, betting pool playing fans are.

Also above was a post about college basketball and how smaller teams could beat big programs, I remember when a little Canadian university (compared to the US giants) beat a final four MM team (Wisconsin) and lost in OT to the number one ranked US college team (Syracuse) in the same pre-season tournament. Oh, they cried, the Americans weren't playing their best players, but the box score said different.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by elly63

This is the last I will say on the matter, I think your quote of the best 500 players in the world play in the NBA is ludicrous. Of course the vast majority do, I don't think anyone is arguing that but your blanket statement to me was over the top.

And I was using the comparison about hockey and the assumption that all the best players play in the NHL when there are loads of good players in the KHL.

The original premise that I was making was how dangerous it is to be blinded by money, marketing and shiny objects which many North American water cooler, betting pool playing fans are.

Also above was a post about college basketball and how smaller teams could beat big programs, I remember when a little Canadian university (compared to the US giants) beat a final four MM team (Wisconsin) and lost in OT to the number one ranked US college team (Syracuse) in the same pre-season tournament. Oh, they cried, the Americans weren't playing their best players, but the box score said different.

I’ll finish with my closing remarks on maybe stop focusing on my exaggerated blanket statement and avoiding the crux of the issue. Of course upsets happen that’s how sports work. But Carleton beating a team because they are allowed to practice all season long while Wisconsin (a more talented team) just starts their season is definitely similar to Canada not having an exhibition match before arriving at the qualifiers.

Please don’t start with the anti-North America remarks. Of course I’m going to be bias to the players of the country I reside in. I have already stated that my remarks are irrational and bias.

Canada was the more talented team but the Czech were a better team. Both statements are separate and are true. They’ll be back in 2024. Hopefully the necessary adjustments are made for Canada to medal.