Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M | 77.8M | 25F | 17F | 22F | 17F | 19F | U/C

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by esquire

So is it safe to say True North Square turned out better than the initial concept, SoPo Square?

I mourn the loss of the 2012 concept with all the Funnelators.



And funnelationally-enhanced light rail transit.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, that proposal was definitely peak funnelator.

[Wpg_Guy]

bryan scott
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bryans...50150/sizes/l/

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Headhorse definitely hates developers and people who dont get paid hourly.

All of the debate about TNS is warranted. I hate skywalks too, but they are not going away, so the best solution is to have strong connections to the sidewalk...entrances that are not hidden within buildings, but are visible and easy to access. I give them points for doing that.

The TIF is a reality in downtown Winnipeg, if you dont like that, I get it...but without it, development goes to the easier suburbs.

I totally get the issue with a public space within the block sucking life from the street, but they appear to have worked hard to ensure that the buildings do not turn their backs on the streets. The residential entrance is not through the plaza. There are entrances to the CRU's on Graham and Carlton. The buildings are built right to the sidewalk with high transparency at ground level. Smaller plazas at each corner address the outisde streets, including the Hydro plaza. They have raised the street to make it a seamless pedestrian connection. They tried to do it between the hotel and plaza too, but Sutton didnt like it for whatever reason. I do feel like the designers created a balance that will keep some energy on the existing streets.

I also get the issue with privately owned public space...but that is also a reality in most north american cities. Portage and Main is privately owned too....I would think that if you were causing issues at the Forks you might get escorted away as well....but again, I do understand the issue philisophically.

hate is a strong word, I just dislike their shallow, vapid lives that rely on the exploitation of society's most vulnerable... I also think they (the "private sector") have done a lousy job of city building the last 60~ years, especially considering the wealth and power they have accumulated since then. not really deserving of the praise that is heaped upon them.

[trueviking]

“And here it becomes evident that the bourgeoisie is unfit any longer to be the ruling class in society and to impose its conditions of existence upon society as an over-riding law. It is unfit to rule because it is incompetent to assure an existence to its slave within his slavery, because it cannot help letting him sink into such a state that it has to feed him instead of being fed by him. Society can no longer live under this bourgeoisie; in other words, its existence is no longer compatible with society.

The essential condition for the existence, and for the sway of the bourgeois class, is the formation and augmentation of capital; the condition for capital is wage-labor. Wage-labor rests exclusively on competition between the laborers. The advance of industry, whose involuntary promoter is the bourgeoisie, replaces the isolation of the laborers, due to competition, by their revolutionary combination, due to association. The development of modern industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable.”
― Karl Marx

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by headhorse

hate is a strong word, I just dislike their shallow, vapid lives that rely on the exploitation of society's most vulnerable... I also think they (the "private sector") have done a lousy job of city building the last 60~ years, especially considering the wealth and power they have accumulated since then. not really deserving of the praise that is heaped upon them.

So the only way to build a downtown is through government funded mega-projects that will then be run and occupied by government organisations? Do you propose we have 0 private sector development because rich people suck?

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

So the only way to build a downtown is through government funded mega-projects that will then be run and occupied by government organisations? Do you propose we have 0 private sector development because rich people suck?

nope, get this. the people that I think should be developing and building the city are city planners, architects, geographers, sociologists, economists, with input from the people who they are designing the infrastructure for (residents/transit users/drivers/transport), who come together to devise best uses and practices for properties throughout the city.

I advocate for a "radical" system where we use expertise to advance our society, not whoever has managed to accrue a certain amount of capital. there is no need for developers, they are literally the definition of middle men, only focusing on cutting costs to increase personal profits.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by headhorse

nope, get this. the people that I think should be developing and building the city are city planners, architects, geographers, sociologists, economists, with input from the people who they are designing the infrastructure for (residents/transit users/drivers/transport), who come together to devise best uses and practices for properties throughout the city.

I advocate for a "radical" system where we use expertise to advance our society, not whoever has managed to accrue a certain amount of capital. there is no need for developers, they are literally the definition of middle men, only focusing on cutting costs to increase personal profits.

Get on that then! Because until you personally change how human civilisation works were going to continue to have wealthy people create things with the help of architects, city planners, so on.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by esquire

So is it safe to say True North Square turned out better than the initial concept, SoPo Square?

That would be an understatement.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

Get on that then! Because until you personally change how human civilisation works were going to continue to have wealthy people create things with the help of architects, city planners, so on.

I don't have to get on anything, the results speak for themselves... seas of parking lots, poor rapid transit, a looming urban tree crisis, poverty rates of 30% in some neighbourhoods, crumbling infrastructure, increasing unaffordability, reduced transit, reduced health services, slow economic growth...

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by headhorse

I don't have to get on anything, the results speak for themselves... seas of parking lots, poor rapid transit, a looming urban tree crisis, poverty rates of 30% in some neighbourhoods, crumbling infrastructure, increasing unaffordability, reduced transit, reduced health services, slow economic growth...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you - 2018!!!!

I will complain about everything but "I don't haft to get on anything"

The quickest way to create change is to whine like a child and expect someone else to solve it for you!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. - You're arguing against the private sector right? I've decided to highlight everything that can also be directly attributed to the public sector in your list of complaints. Just want to be clear on who you hate, because you said private but you mostly complained about public services....

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

The quickest way to create change is to whine like a child and expect someone else to solve it for you!!!!!!!!!!

(Inspired and motivated)

(Heads to the SkyCity site with a shovel)

(And a *large* box of LEGO (tm))

(Screaming "Who's with me!!!")

[headhorse]

.. i'm not sure if you're joking, but the whole point of this is the majority of people have control over the development of their lives, instead of the minority... there is no room for individual advocacy, either the majority will eventually have control the development of their lives or they won't. check out the marx quote...

and the second part about providing social services... you're just proving that the public sector doesn't have the resources to adequately respond to those issues because, guess what, a small group of individuals is hoarding the wealth and creating many of those issues through their exploitation of people's labour and the environment.

[Tacheguy]

There is a lot of truth in what headhorse is saying. Studies are finding that young people in particular are losing their parents blind attachment to democratic capitalist systems, because of the power imbalances that seem to result inevitably. Things need to change one way or another, and they will change. Just a question of what emerges. I don't agree with headhorse's preferred solution though involving the elimination of private property. But isn't this supposed to be about construction?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

There is a lot of truth in what headhorse is saying. Studies are finding that young people in particular are losing their parents blind attachment to democratic capitalist systems, because of the power imbalances that seem to result inevitably. Things need to change one way or another, and they will change. Just a question of what emerges. I don't agree with headhorse's preferred solution though involving the elimination of private property. But isn't this supposed to be about construction?

Power imbalance aren't a result of democratic capitalism. Even a cursory glance at 20th century history is enough to prove that rather conclusively.

[Biff]

In....yo....face dmacc.....whoooooooooooo!!!

Originally Posted by dmacc

Biffs slacking... NEXT PAGE!!!

[Biff]

oh...and yeah, stick it to the man! You filthy capitalist pigs...errr....down with government I mean......I guess

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

There is a lot of truth in what headhorse is saying. Studies are finding that young people in particular are losing their parents blind attachment to democratic capitalist systems, because of the power imbalances that seem to result inevitably. Things need to change one way or another, and they will change. Just a question of what emerges. I don't agree with headhorse's preferred solution though involving the elimination of private property. But isn't this supposed to be about construction?

I'm sure they probably wouldn't object to inheriting the assets accrued by their parents under the capitalist system.

[Tacheguy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/o...titutions.html

[The Unknown Poster]

So Sutton nixed the raising of Carlton...how will they feel when Carlton is closed to contain Whiteout over flow every year?