Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II / 360 Main St. | ~142M | 465 Ft | 42F | U/C

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by esquire

... by contrast, the original design would have covered almost the entire south end of the block.

That's not too much of a loss. The middle of the block, where the hotel grocery store whatever will go, can only support a five or six story building.

[Urban recluse]

Plus it was too wide. This tower is sleeker.

[buzzg]

Was the original tower supposed to be office or residential?

And yeah, agreed with the last few comments – the "success" of the middle portion will be more about it's street integration and layout than the overall size of it. I'm so curious to see how/if it integrates with Winnipeg Square. We could end up with a smaller, semi-subterranean Portage Place lol. I think that's good – fully integrating the new portion (if retail) with the existing mall would benefit both parts.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

That's not too much of a loss. The middle of the block, where the hotel grocery store whatever will go, can only support a five or six story building.

Was originally supposed to be a hotel.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Was the original tower supposed to be office or residential?

Office.

Portage and Main - The Plan by Christian

[DavefromSt.Vital]

The hotel was the smaller structure between the two large towers.

[dmacc]

Damn, I really like that.

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

I'm not sure I understand the need to strengthen the columns before the tower goes up. Had they proceeded with the second office tower when the first one was going up, does it mean that the columns that were originally poured would have been too weak to actually support it? I had thought that although the tops of the columns were capped due to the second tower not going up as originally planned, the columns would be ready should a structure go up in the future.

The economics of the project require a much taller tower than the original foundation and columns can support. It also requires them to go with steel instead of concrete as steel is lighter. They are increasing the size of around 6 columns. One column will be expanded 2 feet in diameter, from 3 feet to 5 feet. A couple of the columns are inside Shopper's.

[robertocarlos]

I like what they did by the stairs close to Scotiabank. They put a column in the middle of the stairs and they installed some automatic door in the event of a fire. I think the column was needed to support the floor for the 40 tonne TD bank vault. The column looks good now that it's finished.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

I'm not sure I understand the need to strengthen the columns before the tower goes up. Had they proceeded with the second office tower when the first one was going up, does it mean that the columns that were originally poured would have been too weak to actually support it? I had thought that although the tops of the columns were capped due to the second tower not going up as originally planned, the columns would be ready should a structure go up in the future.

Well, that's why the world has structural engineers. I was told that a while all columns are in great condiitons, that someone simply needed additional reinforcing. Overall, the taller steel structure is no heavier but it is concentrated over a smaller footprint... while the original proposal may have been heavier, it can distribute it's load over a greater span of columns. That's my guess.

It also could simply be that for whatever reason, whether outdated code or who knows, they just weren't at the standard demanded. So you fix that.

Nonetheless, I asked them and they simply said "figured if we reinforced a couple, might as well reinforce most/all and do it right".

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

As I understand it they are building a tower approximately ten stories taller than it was originally designed for. Also steel frame construction if that makes any difference.

In terms of overall load, the taller but lighter structure is about the same. Just a matter of details I presume.

Originally Posted by esquire

You think so? I like the height of this and one and clearly it will be a modern addition to the skyline, but that said I think there is something to be said for the sizable floorplate of the original proposal. 300 Main will only cover a small portion of the overall site... by contrast, the original design would have covered almost the entire south end of the block.

Like my women, I like em skinnier.

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Office.

Portage and Main - The Plan by Christian

For what it's worth, the existing foundation can't handle multiple floors across the entirety of the centre pad... so this rendering, like any rendering, doesn't tell the whole story. How things get built is different from proposed images ie there was not second tower at all haha. But it would be inaccurate to say that the existing foundation as it was completed can accommodate all that.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by esquire

You think so? I like the height of this and one and clearly it will be a modern addition to the skyline, but that said I think there is something to be said for the sizable floorplate of the original proposal. 300 Main will only cover a small portion of the overall site... by contrast, the original design would have covered almost the entire south end of the block.

I see your point regarding the original design covering a larger area but I like the idea of the new tower having a unique look to it rather than the close cousin look to 360 Main. Also, if the original building had gone up then both of the 2 towers would have had that boring beige color and it's possible that Artis would have left them as is instead of putting a new curtain wall up like they did with 360 Main. I wouldn't mind if a second tower had gone up beside 201 Portage when that building went up as it's a nice looking tower. However, with regards to 300 Main, I think the planned design will help improve the overall appearance of the cluster of tall buildings in the Portage and Main area.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

For what it's worth, the existing foundation can't handle multiple floors across the entirety of the centre pad... so this rendering, like any rendering, doesn't tell the whole story. How things get built is different from proposed images ie there was not second tower at all haha. But it would be inaccurate to say that the existing foundation as it was completed can accommodate all that.

But that's just it. If everything was built per the renders back in the day, it would've been just fine. Now that they're going taller 40 years later, the foundation doesn't meet today's codes. Are you saying since they knew they were never going to build the hotel and second tower, they cheaped out on the foundation in those areas?

Nobody's clamouring to reinforce the existing foundation below the current tower because it's just fine.

I'm quite surprised they're doing all this reinforcement. If you go into Winnipeg square and look at the beams and columns, they're quite large already.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

I see your point regarding the original design covering a larger area but I like the idea of the new tower having a unique look to it rather than the close cousin look to 360 Main. Also, if the original building had gone up then both of the 2 towers would have had that boring beige color and it's possible that Artis would have left them as is instead of putting a new curtain wall up like they did with 360 Main. I wouldn't mind if a second tower had gone up beside 201 Portage when that building went up as it's a nice looking tower. However, with regards to 300 Main, I think the planned design will help improve the overall appearance of the cluster of tall buildings in the Portage and Main area.

Yeah, for sure. There are some advantages to the current plan vs. had the original plan been realized. But there's no question that the original plan would have led to a far more intensive use of the site... you would have had probably thousands of workers on a daily basis as opposed to the hundreds of residents who will be living in 300 Main.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by esquire

you would have had probably thousands of workers on a daily basis as opposed to the hundreds of residents who will be living in 300 Main.

Those hundreds of residents will be living there. Buying groceries (where possible) and other services in the area. Hanging out there after hours.

The office workers would arrive from the suburbs straight into the underground parkade, and disappear back to the suburbs at 5pm with little or no local interaction.

[esquire]

^ Since you already have a foundation in place with room for only 1 highrise max, from an urbanist perspective you might as well squeeze as many people as you can on it. There's plenty of room for apartments on the surrounding blocks. But of course, it's a moot point.

[drew]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

But that's just it. If everything was built per the renders back in the day, it would've been just fine. Now that they're going taller 40 years later, the foundation doesn't meet today's codes. Are you saying since they knew they were never going to build the hotel and second tower, they cheaped out on the foundation in those areas?

Nobody's clamouring to reinforce the existing foundation below the current tower because it's just fine.

I'm quite surprised they're doing all this reinforcement. If you go into Winnipeg square and look at the beams and columns, they're quite large already.

The foundation and elevator core is getting reinforced for the extra wind loads from the taller tower. It has nothing to do with vertical loading. You can't increase the available vertical load unless you add more piles, or pay off a geotechnical engineer.

And to the bolded above - this is one of the reasons why the world has structural engineers. The other main reason, obviously, is because they are awesome.

"It looks big enough"... famous last words.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by drew

"It looks big enough"... famous last words.

Mmmhmmmmm....

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

But that's just it. If everything was built per the renders back in the day, it would've been just fine. Now that they're going taller 40 years later, the foundation doesn't meet today's codes. Are you saying since they knew they were never going to build the hotel and second tower, they cheaped out on the foundation in those areas?

Nobody's clamouring to reinforce the existing foundation below the current tower because it's just fine.

I'm quite surprised they're doing all this reinforcement. If you go into Winnipeg square and look at the beams and columns, they're quite large already.

I never said that about the second tower, just the hotel.

My understanding from it was that some tower columns needed reinforcing, and they just said "fuck it, do em all, build it right"... which is a great way to think. That's what they told me.

Whenever you do anything at all to an existing building, or make adjustments from an old plan, you incur, well, adjustments. That isn't indicative of any insufficiency of the original tower foundation or Artis planning, it's perfectly expected. 360 needs no adjustments because it's built as per plans. This new tower not only isn't as per plan, but requires an entirely new set of 1000 page plans

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, for sure. There are some advantages to the current plan vs. had the original plan been realized. But there's no question that the original plan would have led to a far more intensive use of the site... you would have had probably thousands of workers on a daily basis as opposed to the hundreds of residents who will be living in 300 Main.

If there was an office market for them... which is why it never got built

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

Those hundreds of residents will be living there. Buying groceries (where possible) and other services in the area. Hanging out there after hours.

The office workers would arrive from the suburbs straight into the underground parkade, and disappear back to the suburbs at 5pm with little or no local interaction.

Well, a full, larger office tower would be better. Not only bigger daytime traffic, but an indicator of downtown market strength as it would show incentive for more people to live where the action is. It would also generate more revenue, sparking further downtown economic activity. Someone would have to build even more apartment towers for the added demand.

Our downtown would never have died if it had the office strength that larger cities had.

Dunno, all meaningless speculation anyway, as downtown apts are needed to meet and set new demand for quality rental.

Originally Posted by drew

The foundation and elevator core is getting reinforced for the extra wind loads from the taller tower. It has nothing to do with vertical loading. You can't increase the available vertical load unless you add more piles, or pay off a geotechnical engineer.

And to the bolded above - this is one of the reasons why the world has structural engineers. The other main reason, obviously, is because they are awesome.

"It looks big enough"... famous last words.

And this.

[buzzg]

I have first-hand knowledge that Artis is currently trying to court Earls to move into the restaurant unit on the main floor at Main & Graham. Doesn't seem like Earls is super keen on it, but for the right deal (and if layout and patio availability works for them), it could be possible.

[esquire]

^ That would be nice, it might open up the Main & York site for more substantial development. But it's hard to imagine Earls giving up its oodles of free parking...