Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Since about 1865. My mom's family came to Manitoba's Red River Valley from southern Ukraine around 1870. They farmed just north of Winkler until the 1950 flood when they moved to Rivers (north of Brandon) and left the Mennonite faith and joined the United Church of Canada.

There are several types of Mennonites

Mennonite faith - regular church goers, completely integrated in society. Modern farmers and business people

Old Order Mennonites - More devout, family units, men and women more uniform in their dress. Modern Famers

Hutterites - Live in colonies, very large and modern farmers but are not socially integrated with secular society

Amish - Shun modern conveniences and only use engines to power stationary equipment.

Neither Hutterites nor Amish are Mennonite. They are related in the sense they are all 16th century anabaptist movements.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Neither Hutterites nor Amish are Mennonite. They are related in the sense they are all 16th century anabaptist movements.

I stand corrected

[urbandreamer]

Many of the Beachy Amish were originally Swiss German Mennonites who joined Jakob Ammann's splinter group/cult before moving to Pennsylvania 300 years ago, then split into various subgroups over the years including their namesake Joseph Beachy's about 100 years ago. While some moved to Ontario in the 1850s-1880s directly from Alsace-Lorraine to places like Zurich, Milverton, New Hamburg ON, others came from Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio and Illinois around 100 years ago. To make things more confusing, this Amish splinter group has increasing called themselves "Conservative Mennonites" since the 1960s. Some have moved to places like Creston BC, Vauxhall AB, Perth ON and rural New Brunswick.

One group of Beachy Amish, a mix of Ontarians and Americans, have set up a mission/farming community in Ukraine near Kyiv and now into Romania to escape the war. They have been successfully converting desperately poor Ukrainian peasants in villages such as those seen in the Dutch couples' YouTube. My ex gf was part of this group, living in Ukraine for many years as a teenager.

Yet another group of these "Conservative Mennonites" has a farming community in Ireland, and another in Paraguay. I hope you're getting the big picture: Palatinate Germans/Dutch are very successful at turning undesirable land into prosperous farms, using their extensive cousins clubs, huge families and local peasant labor. Being tax exempt and pacifists, their work ethic is desired by third world dictators although they rarely integrate into secular society.

[Truenorth00]

Getting back on topic. I don't think that chicken farming family is all that bright. And there's a huge difference between investing in "Eastern Europe" and investing in Russia. I know urbandreamer thinks it's all the same cause they are Slavs (regular racist projection). But there's a big difference between doing business in the EU and a country with very flexible (shall we say) laws.

[casper]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is not actually a good thing, really. (Well, it's economically efficient, I'll grant it that). The reason why egg farms here to be so strict about biosecurity is because they cram chickens into extremely dense conditions where diseases spread like wildfire.

This is ultimately why in North America, we have to keep our eggs in the fridge and we can't them raw, whereas in Europe they keep eggs in the pantry for months and can eat them with barely any cooking. Standards of care in the poultry industry in this continent are atrocious.

The farm I visited was doing free range organic. The biosecurity was driven from fear of bird flu. It was a large scale operation with a lot of automation. The hens could walk around the barn and there were doors to let them go outside if they wanted to be outside.

As others said, the we wash our eggs in Canada so they need to be refrigerated.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Getting back on topic. I don't think that chicken farming family is all that bright. And there's a huge difference between investing in "Eastern Europe" and investing in Russia. I know urbandreamer thinks it's all the same cause they are Slavs (regular racist projection). But there's a big difference between doing business in the EU and a country with very flexible (shall we say) laws.

I don't understand it. You can remotely see someone with cultural/family ties moving to Russia. But to start up a farming business? That is insane.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Getting back on topic. I don't think that chicken farming family is all that bright. And there's a huge difference between investing in "Eastern Europe" and investing in Russia. I know urbandreamer thinks it's all the same cause they are Slavs (regular racist projection). But there's a big difference between doing business in the EU and a country with very flexible (shall we say) laws.

I suspect that the father does most, if not all, of the thinking for that family.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I suspect that the father does most, if not all, of the “thinking” for that family.

Fixed it for you.

[urbandreamer]

I believe his wife is an ex Mennonite from Ontario. Anyway, many German, Dutch and Mennonite farmers from the EU, Canada and USA are moving to Russia and Romania instead of Ukraine because of the war. I think this couple are crazy but obviously know how to live the isolated pioneer self sufficient farm life. I know a Swiss Mennonite/Scots-Irish Presbyterian couple near Chesley ON who have similar values, like home schooling anti vax etc. Both are highly educated (PhD) but from Conservative Christian farming backgrounds. There's probably tens of thousands of these types across Canada.

It's true that the Kyiv I know, c.1995-2008, was highly integrated with Russian culture, eg Russian Orthodox Christian Monasteries, language schools, Shuls and grocery chains however I believe the further west the greater the Ukrainian identity is. Many of these "Russians" were actually historically from Turkey, Kazakhstan, Romania, Poland, even Germany and France. Russia in a way is a made up culture like "American."

[Truenorth00]

Fail to see how your social circle is relevant to the topic at hand.

[urbandreamer]

Not my social circle, just people I've met through the Mennonite community over the years, well since 1983 ha. Likewise, I know Ukrainian and Russians, Hutterites and you'd be shocked, South Asian and Vietnamese farmers. My parents explored the world through religion, although they themselves were atheists haha.

[acottawa]

There was an era 10-15 years ago when Western companies could buy up fallow Soviet farmland in southern Russia, apply Western techniques, equipment, seeds, breeding stock, bull semen, etc. and make a bunch of money.

This does not appear to be that. They are right-wing hipsters who are looking for cheap land in the boreal forest near the 58th parallel. They might get some sort of subsistence farming business (more than likely living off the proceeds of their Canadian savings rather than farm income) but I am not sure why someone would expect them extract significant profit from the chicken business.

[whatnext]

How to handle a problem like Modi's India?

Narendra Modi’s threat to kill foreigners ‘in their homes’ can’t simply be ignored
DOUG SAUNDERS
PUBLISHED 10 HOURS AGO

As India’s election winds toward its June 1 conclusion, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has adopted a violent new campaign message. In recent speeches, Mr. Modi has taken credible accusations from Western officials that his government has sent agents abroad to kill Canadians and other foreigners – the most overt form of foreign interference – and turned them into taunts.

“Today, even India’s enemies know: This is Modi, this is the New India,” he said at an April 5 rally, according to The Washington Post. “This New India comes into your home to kill you.”

That threat, aimed at Muslim and Sikh foreigners his party considers enemies, was repeated on Tuesday, as reported by India’s NDTV: With regard to foreigners “who look at our borders with malicious intent,” he bragged at an event, “India no longer sends [documents], it kills enemies in their homes.”

Two incidents this week made it clear that this language is intended at least in part to taunt Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who last year accused India’s government of carrying out the June 18, 2023, assassination of Canadian citizen Hardeep Singh Nijjar, a Sikh activist, in Surrey, B.C.

On Monday morning, Canada’s deputy high commissioner to India was summoned by Mr. Modi’s government for a widely publicized reprimand. The subject was an appearance made by Mr. Trudeau last weekend at a Toronto rally to mark Vaisakhi, the anniversary of the founding of the Sikh faith in 1699. It has been customary for leaders of both major parties to attend such events....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ant-simply-be/

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How to handle a problem like Modi's India?

Have a robust counterintelligence organization to catch their agents operating here and have politicians stop sympathizing with a separatist cause that isn't in our national interest?

[Luisito]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Have a robust counterintelligence organization to catch their agents operating here and have politicians stop sympathizing with a separatist cause that isn't in our national interest?

Any politican that promotes that will be promptly accused of racism. But you are correct that is what's needed if anything is to be done.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Have a robust counterintelligence organization to catch their agents operating here and have politicians stop sympathizing with a separatist cause that isn't in our national interest?

The Khalistan support is interesting only because we also have substantial numbers of immigrants from Hindu Indians. This was mostly not the case with IRA or Tamil Tiger support but it is certainly a long tradition. We forget Ukraine, the Baltics and East Timor were also "separatist" causes at one point. Sympathizing is one thing supporting violence another.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The Khalistan support is interesting only because we also have substantial numbers of immigrants from Hindu Indians. This was mostly not the case with IRA or Tamil Tiger support but it is certainly a long tradition. We forget Ukraine, the Baltics and East Timor were also "separatist" causes at one point. Sympathizing is one thing supporting violence another.

I don’t think there is any other separatist movement that Canadian politicians have actively supported.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don’t think there is any other separatist movement that Canadian politicians have actively supported.

We didn't support the ones I mentioned or they weren't separatists by your definition?

In Soviet case it is very clear we supported:
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/199...-over-baltics/

Tamils were very active in Liberal leadership politics I don't know what support we gave them. Certainly the diaspora was active. After 9/11 it dried up and the majority soon wiped out the movement. Not sure if they are better or worse off now.

East Timor wasn't diaspora politics but they certainly had our support.

https://reconciliationtim.ca/timor/a...-that-matters/

[Luisito]

We have a leader of a major party that supports Kalhistani seperatism and has even attended events held by extremist separatist groups linked to serious violence. I don't think we have seen that before.

I am not sure we Khalistanis get away with so much here in Canada. I have seen them drive around with pictures of people hilding AKs on their cars. I think of Muslims groups were doing this so openly it would be all over the news. It would not be tolerated.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

We didn't support the ones I mentioned or they weren't separatists by your definition?

In Soviet case it is very clear we supported:
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/199...-over-baltics/

Tamils were very active in Liberal leadership politics I don't know what support we gave them. Certainly the diaspora was active. After 9/11 it dried up and the majority soon wiped out the movement. Not sure if they are better or worse off now.

East Timor wasn't diaspora politics but they certainly had our support.

https://reconciliationtim.ca/timor/a...-that-matters/

Ok, point taken.

But I would note that these were both relatively recent annexations that were never widely recognized and it was in the dying days of regimes where independence was plausible. The British East India Company conquered the Sikh Empire in 1849 and India does not appear to be on the verge of disintegration.

[whatnext]

Have no fear everyone! The Liberals will establish a foreign influence registry. We can all be sure foreign spies will be lining up to register.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/cana...bill-1.6875228