Winnipeg Construction X

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

can someone explain to me the economics of this?

i understand in places with less savvy owners who just convince themselves their space is worth more than the market will pay.

but some of downtown RE is owned by fairly sophisticated investors. are there tax writeoffs from having vacant properties that subsidize their decision to hold the line on a vacant space instead of reducing rent?

There is sometimes no demand regardless of price... If your business can’t afford $1,200 rent per month you really don’t have a business. There is lots of Exchange property available in that price range...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/newr...eply&p=8740265

[Winnipegger]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

can someone explain to me the economics of this?

i understand in places with less savvy owners who just convince themselves their space is worth more than the market will pay.

but some of downtown RE is owned by fairly sophisticated investors. are there tax writeoffs from having vacant properties that subsidize their decision to hold the line on a vacant space instead of reducing rent?

Part of it might be long-term speculation. There is a chance it is likely cheaper to have a mostly-vacant building and have to do very little upkeep, maintenance, and management when compared to offering market rents and providing extensive maintenance and management. At the end of the day, the property owner is probably hoping that the land beneath the building will continue to appreciate and one day they will be able to sell and make a significant return for very little risk.

[wardlow]

Originally Posted by Labroco

There is sometimes no demand regardless of price... If your business can’t afford $1,200 rent per month you really don’t have a business. There is lots of Exchange property available in that price range...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/newr...eply&p=8740265

I don't know if the challenge of finding space in the the Exchange District is the price per square foot, or if it's how many square feet there are per unit. Commercial units at 2,500-5,000 s.f. are not always needed. I always remember hearing from the owner of Parlour Coffee (a successful business in the Exchange since 2011 or so) saying he was only able to make his business work by carving out a corner of a larger retail space in the building.

Smaller retail units create greater commercial density, and allow specialized commercial services to set up shop. Opening the first 'third wave' coffee shop in Winnipeg in 2011 was a big enough risk without having a 5,000 square feet space to lease.

The tricky part is most of the Exchange District's buildings were not designed to accommodate small retail units, and neither were the big commercial buildings on the city's 'high streets' (Portage, Main). So big commercial units sit empty while property owners wait around for Starbucks or whatever to come along.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wardlow

I don't know if the challenge of finding space in the the Exchange District is the price per square foot, or if it's how many square feet there are per unit. Commercial units at 2,500-5,000 s.f. are not always needed. I always remember hearing from the owner of Parlour Coffee (a successful business in the Exchange since 2011 or so) saying he was only able to make his business work by carving out a corner of a larger retail space in the building.

Smaller retail units create greater commercial density, and allow specialized commercial services to set up shop. Starting the first 'third wave' coffee shop in Winnipeg in 2011 was a big enough risk without having a 5,000 square feet to lease.

The tricky part is most of the Exchange District's buildings were not designed to accommodate small retail units, and neither were the big commercial buildings on the city's 'high streets' (Portage, Main). So big commercial units sit empty while property owners wait around for Moxie's or whatever to come along.

Very good point. At one time there certainly were a lot of small retail spaces judging by old photos of downtown Winnipeg, but so many of them have been consolidated into large spaces where it's an all or nothing proposition.

A lot of downtowns in overseas cities are built on small 1,000 square foot or less shops. Yet those barely exist in downtown Winnipeg.

[oftheMoon]

I don't recall the name of the program, but either Downtown Biz or the city would lease out spots for cheap in vacant spaces for "pop up" businesses to make a go of it. If I recall, that's how Amsterdam Tea started and they've now worked that into what seems a viable business. Does that program still exist?

[trueviking]

I've been told from the Exchange Biz that they need 1000 sf spaces. That's what they can find tenants for. Most spaces are much larger.

[1ajs]

couldnt the exchange biz get creative and help link some companies up to sub devide some of these spaces between a couple small bisness's

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I've been told from the Exchange Biz that they need 1000 sf spaces. That's what they can find tenants for. Most spaces are much larger.

Quick question: whats the likelihood of the Bay (or the Bays basement/former Zellers and grocery store) being turned into a mall of sorts, with 1000 sq. Ft. spaces?

Because that basement used to host groceries, clothes, electronics, books, even a small cafe...

Why not convert the basement of the Bay, to hold such markets and malls for small shops? Or shall I dare say, utilize Fort Garry Place "mall" for such a purpose?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Quick question: whats the likelihood of the Bay (or the Bays basement/former Zellers and grocery store) being turned into a mall of sorts, with 1000 sq. Ft. spaces?

Because that basement used to host groceries, clothes, electronics, books, even a small cafe...

Why not convert the basement of the Bay, to hold such markets and malls for small shops? Or shall I dare say, utilize Fort Garry Place "mall" for such a purpose?

There are already plenty of malls downtown with smaller CRUs... the issue is getting those types of small spaces out of the malls and on the streets themselves.

[optimusREIM]

Unfortunately and unsurprisingly, that will do precisely nothing to animate the street and will likely pull people away from areas we want to improve like the exchange.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

There are already plenty of malls downtown with smaller CRUs... the issue is getting those types of small spaces out of the malls and on the streets themselves.

It’s tough. Even in the downtown core of Toronto, retail would have to be at least 95% in the PATH and/or malls and maybe 5% on the street.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by wardlow

I don't know if the challenge of finding space in the the Exchange District is the price per square foot, or if it's how many square feet there are per unit. Commercial units at 2,500-5,000 s.f. are not always needed. I always remember hearing from the owner of Parlour Coffee (a successful business in the Exchange since 2011 or so) saying he was only able to make his business work by carving out a corner of a larger retail space in the building.

Parlour is a rare example of a business needing a street presence (them) being able to carve out that space from another business (the hair saloon) that was okay without having a real visible street presence.

I would guess that most of the small businesses looking for 1000 sq ft of retail space in the Exchange expect a sizable piece of the 1000 sq ft to have a street fronting presence.

[bomberjet]

https://winnipeg.ca/cao/media/news/n...20191107.stm#2

Two things at the link. Tower crane going up this weekend at Broadway and Colony for the apartment building.

And there is a street lighting study!! A chance for everyone to complain about the haphazard style of lighting.

Also a third thing regarding Harvard University working with the police to help with efficiency.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Parlour is a rare example of a business needing a street presence (them) being able to carve out that space from another business (the hair saloon) that was okay without having a real visible street presence.

I would guess that most of the small businesses looking for 1000 sq ft of retail space in the Exchange expect a sizable piece of the 1000 sq ft to have a street fronting presence.

What are you talking about? Berns and Black had fantastic street presence, it was exact same as Parlour. You could see the whole salon from the street, just as you can now with the gym.

Originally Posted by bomberjet

https://winnipeg.ca/cao/media/news/n...20191107.stm#2

Two things at the link. Tower crane going up this weekend at Broadway and Colony for the apartment building.

And there is a street lighting study!! A chance for everyone to complain about the haphazard style of lighting.

Also a third thing regarding Harvard University working with the police to help with efficiency.

Why on earth are they wasting money on another lighting study when there was a fantastic one done ~5 years ago that’s still extreme relevant?! Put that money toward funding improvements on private property through matching grants!

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

https://winnipeg.ca/cao/media/news/n...20191107.stm#2

Two things at the link. Tower crane going up this weekend at Broadway and Colony for the apartment building.

I must be out of the loop - there's an apartment going up on Broadway?

edit: just saw - West Broadway Commons, 12 storeys. I must have forgot about this project if I read about it, because I had no clue

So make that 6 tower cranes spread across downtown Winnipeg?

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I must be out of the loop - there's an apartment going up on Broadway?

edit: just saw - West Broadway Commons, 12 storeys. I must have forgot about this project if I read about it, because I had no clue

So make that 6 tower cranes spread across downtown Winnipeg?

Yep 6, and a large crane on Stradbrook.

[wags_in_the_peg]

love this new build on Corydon

[esquire]

^ Nice to see something fresh on Corydon.

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Nice to see something fresh on Corydon.

I agree, looks very nice!

[LilZebra]

Going past Cambridge on Corydon on the bus, I could see Corydon Village expanding to it from Stafford/Harrow is now. Its already got two bus lines going past it.