Future of Downtown Winnipeg

[bicycles]

nm
!!!!!!!!!

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Alrighty, but we do have a 1% vacancy rate for rental housing. We should build at least 500 runits somewhere downtown. union station or portage place perhaps?

The reason that the vacancy rates are so low is that there is very little incentive to build more apartments.

The cost of construction is far higher than the artificially restrained rental rates due to the rent controls imposed in the province.

If you want a city with apartment blocks downtown, tell your MLA to abolish the rent control regime or vote for one that will in 2011.

Originally Posted by armorand93

I know, but they're mostly condominiums. A working-class family cant afford $250,000. Portage Place should start building now. As for my earlier pictures on the thread, I should downgrade them to below 30 stories for office, and below 20 for residential

Again. This is due to rent controls.

Why rent out an apartment for $800/month when you could sell it outright for $250,000?

If rent controls were gone rents would move with the market and you would have a much better chance of seeing buildings built as apartments instead of being sold off as condos.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by bicycles

yeah, because gentrification is something we should strive for? why can't downtown be for everyone, including students, middle class, upper class, and everyone else?

Because including everyone costs money. LOTS of money. Who should pay the bill to subsidize all of this housing for students, single moms and people who just don't feel like working?

Name one city where everyone can live in the core with any income.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

wow wow otl

a real city has a mix of people in its downtown..............

anyhow who says we can't have residential on portage ave smack!

It will be interesting the price of rent for that building and what the final quality of the units will be like.

Last I heard, rent was starting at around $850/month for less than 500 sq ft.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by bicycles

err, do you know what forum you're on? your sense of entitlement is unfortunate.

He works and earns money and entitled to what he can afford to buy for himself.

EVERYONE is entitled to do the same.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by h0twired

It will be interesting the price of rent for that building and what the final quality of the units will be like.

Last I heard, rent was starting at around $850/month for less than 500 sq ft.

I would expect something not too far off from the last downtown apartment project carried out by the developers:

http://www.theedgeonprincess.com/

They landed Jeld-Wen as a tenant for the commercial space, which is pretty good compared to most Exchange District residential projects where main floor commercial spaces tend to languish for a while. That augurs well for the Avenue Building.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Because including everyone costs money. LOTS of money. Who should pay the bill to subsidize all of this housing for students, single moms and people who just don't feel like working?

Name one city where everyone can live in the core with any income.

I was going to refer to the working class. If you get workers closer to their buildings, they wont need cars. Cars cost alot of money annually. Then, they can afford the rent, which means Manitoba can let go of some control, letting the market flourish

[armorand93]

Let rent go up to $1100. Yeah it'll chuck some people out of their homes, but we'll get more construction

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by esquire

I would expect something not too far off from the last downtown apartment project carried out by the developers:

http://www.theedgeonprincess.com/

They landed Jeld-Wen as a tenant for the commercial space, which is pretty good compared to most Exchange District residential projects where main floor commercial spaces tend to languish for a while. That augurs well for the Avenue Building.

If that is the case then the Avenue Building will probably start at $950/month.

Back in 2009 The Edge on Princess was originally saying that they were going to rent units to students at around $550-650/month but the cost of developing the building ended up being too high and the $950-1100/month rents were set.

Luckily for Hofer, (the same developer of the Avenue building) the demand was there and I think The Edge is almost fully occupied with the exception of a couple of the penthouse suites. I think he knows where the demand for smaller apartments is and is probably tuning the Avenue Building to fit that market.

I highly doubt that the Avenue Building will be praised by any "affordable housing" advocates when it is ready for occupancy.

[Bdog]

What are the rules with rent controls, in regards to new buildings. Whereas there are restrictions on raising the rents on existing units, can the owner set the rents of a new building to whatever they like?

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Bdog

What are the rules with rent controls, in regards to new buildings. Whereas there are restrictions on raising the rents on existing units, can the owner set the rents of a new building to whatever they like?

New buildings can charge whatever they want.

However they are still competing with older buildings that have considerably lower rents.

[1ajs]

yes but theres a shortage in the market and rent controlls are in effect for anything below 1200$ if i am not mistaken

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

yes but theres a shortage in the market and rent controlls are in effect for anything below 1200$ if i am not mistaken

Exactly. The shortage exists because new buildings and the current cost of construction and trades leaves a developer unable to compete with the current market unless they have a higher end niche or a prime location for people with deeper pockets.

Building new apartments for people with low-incomes won't be happening in downtown Winnipeg with some major government sponsorship. However in Manitoba that means Manitoba Housing gets involved and you end up with a dumpy project within 5 years.

[bicycles]

Originally Posted by h0twired

Because including everyone costs money. LOTS of money. Who should pay the bill to subsidize all of this housing for students, single moms and people who just don't feel like working?

Name one city where everyone can live in the core with any income.

New York, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton. Sure not everyone will live in the flashy new condos, but theres nothing wrong with erecting buildings that cater to young families, single parents, etc. I'm not saying they need to be subsidized, I just think you can build a nice, if ordinary, building at a price that you can still make a profit charging $800-$900 for a one bedroom.

[bicycles]

Originally Posted by h0twired

He works and earns money and entitled to what he can afford to buy for himself.

EVERYONE is entitled to do the same.

I mean his/her sense of entitlement in that he believes certain people (like him/her) should live in one place and everyone else should live in another place.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by bicycles

New York, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton. Sure not everyone will live in the flashy new condos, but theres nothing wrong with erecting buildings that cater to young families, single parents, etc. I'm not saying they need to be subsidized, I just think you can build a nice, if ordinary, building at a price that you can still make a profit charging $800-$900 for a one bedroom.

Exactly. I'd buy one in Winnipeg in 10 years (after moving to Calgary and making a considerable sum of money, of course), if they have them by then

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by bicycles

yeah, because gentrification is something we should strive for? why can't downtown be for everyone, including students, middle class, upper class, and everyone else?

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for everyone downtown; just that too often the talk hovers around 'affordable' housing.

It seems whenever some new fancy condo is propsed, all the lefties throw their arms in the air and decry the fact that nobody can afford to live downtown.

However in reality, the lower classes are probably overrepresented as a segment of the downtown residential population.

[bicycles]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I'm not saying that there isn't a place for everyone downtown; just that too often the talk hovers around 'affordable' housing.

It seems whenever some new fancy condo is propsed, all the lefties throw their arms in the air and decry the fact that nobody can afford to live downtown.

However in reality, the lower classes are probably overrepresented as a segment of the downtown residential population.

I think any kind of residential development downtown is great, with the only possible exemption being affordable/subsidized housing. If people want $400,000 luxury condos, build them. If people want $150,000 condos with cheaper finishes/less space/etc then I tihnk there should be room for themt too.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by bicycles

I think any kind of residential development downtown is great, with the only possible exemption being affordable/subsidized housing. If people want $400,000 luxury condos, build them. If people want $150,000 condos with cheaper finishes/less space/etc then I tihnk there should be room for themt too.

I think the misnomer here is the term 'affordable'.

On SSP, what is really meant is 'entry-level' or 'starter home'; a 'starter condo' if you may.

Something you might buy in your 20's or 30's as a young professional.

However, when someone talks about 'affordable housing' in the main stream media, what they're really talking about is government subsidized housing; And believe me, if you want to scare suburbanites away from the big bad city that's definitely the way to do it.

[Spocket]

Yeah , I have to echo the sentiments already expressed about affordable housing . Whenever the government builds "affordable housing" in the suburbs it's like they're transplanting a little ghetto into an otherwise middle-class or higher neighbourhood .
I don't think that anybody has a problem with people who don't make a fortune ... well of course not . The problem is that we all know exactly what "affordable housing" really brings with it and far too often it's exactly the kind of element that already plagues downtown Winnipeg .

I'd also agree that the new construction on Waterfront isn't necessarily luxury but it's definitely not within reach of the average middle-income earner . Let's face it , in Canada and North America , families don't usually choose apartment living . So we're really talking about singles and maybe couples . True , they have more disposable income but they often aren't established career-wise . That means , of course , that they're not usually able to afford $250+ to buy a condo . As for rent ... well Winnipeg's a blue collar city . $850 and over a month is just not going to bring people downtown due to simple economics . We have to go at least a $100 lower .

In any case , the biggest problem is that the city isn't doing enough to attract developers to the core . Witness the joke that was the Crystal development and how they got shafted by the "Friends" (where's that new park we so desperately needed again ?)