The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[kirjtc2]

Originally Posted by kwajo

...........

Exactly what I thought. I hope this doesn't mean the NB-er, Aliant Tower II.

Something more along the lines of the clock on Citadel Hill would be good, but then there's the matter of where to put it.

[kwajo]

The funny thing is that the ideal solution for this iconic architecture question would have been to build a world-class cruise ship terminal, but I guess we missed the boat on that one (pardon the pun )

Why is it that we always seem to bring up these issues after the fact? Every time Saint John gets a new building, there are always a large number of people complaining that it could have been built with better architecture, but no one seems to be vocal about it during the planning stages.

[random11]

Originally Posted by kwajo

...........

lol

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666

It seem they want to change people mind about SJ and its industrial blue-collar image, then explain me why they support a refenery ? You could built whatever you want to make-up people mind, a new refinery wont help to change the realty .

Any development that will bring as many jobs as the line up of projects being considered for Saint John, will not only change the attitude of the people of Saint John, but will bring billions of dollars of capital to the city, province and country.

Saint John is also not just a manufacturing and service centre, but has more historical and economic importance than any other area in the province.

Saint John has a great natural advantage due to it's close location to one of the biggest consumer markets in the world.

The poor perception has been due to neglect from successive governments and can be traced all the way back to Confederation.

The refinery is not the only thing being considered right now, but even if it were, Irving will not have a stranglehold on the project. Just as they are a minority player in the LNG transfer point, Irving is bringing in major international companies that will add to the culture of Saint John and will diversify the corporate population of the city(and the province, for that matter)

Civic pride doesn't depend on how you make a living, but that you DO make a living and see a bright future for yourself.

Saint John is already changing the perception of itself and will only continue to do so. A landmark development will be a great addition to the city. What that should be, I'm sure, can and will be debated, but there are numerous ideas that would highlight the city's historical position of importance in not just NB, but in Canada.

Since quality is one of the things that gets dropped by the wayside first, I would insist that there be no compromise on quality for this landmark project.

And that means no cheesy developments!

[reddog794]

It feels like at times, Saint John is adverse to change. I only need 8 more signatures for my nomination papers, and do you think I can get them filled? for the past three weeks I've had to go door to door, and even then when I talk about change, I get a goofy look, or am told I'm too young and am wasting their time. Why is that? YOu'd think people would rally around somebody who's isn't a politician, but somebody that's tired of half measures, and pretty pictures, and is young energetic is is serious, about helping.

I don't get Saint John sometimes.

[Helladog]

I vote for a CN tower sized lighthouse for the sugar refinery site...

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Any development that will bring as many jobs as the line up of projects being considered for Saint John, will not only change the attitude of the people of Saint John, but will bring billions of dollars of capital to the city, province and country.

Saint John is also not just a manufacturing and service centre, but has more historical and economic importance than any other area in the province.

Saint John has a great natural advantage due to it's close location to one of the biggest consumer markets in the world.

The poor perception has been due to neglect from successive governments and can be traced all the way back to Confederation.

The refinery is not the only thing being considered right now, but even if it were, Irving will not have a stranglehold on the project. Just as they are a minority player in the LNG transfer point, Irving is bringing in major international companies that will add to the culture of Saint John and will diversify the corporate population of the city(and the province, for that matter)

Civic pride doesn't depend on how you make a living, but that you DO make a living and see a bright future for yourself.

Saint John is already changing the perception of itself and will only continue to do so. A landmark development will be a great addition to the city. What that should be, I'm sure, can and will be debated, but there are numerous ideas that would highlight the city's historical position of importance in not just NB, but in Canada.

Since quality is one of the things that gets dropped by the wayside first, I would insist that there be no compromise on quality for this landmark project.

And that means no cheesy developments!

Fantastic post! I could not agree more with what you have written. There is no question that the attitude of Saint Johners has changed and is continuing to change as this historical growth is just beginning.

[Alberta Bound]

Originally Posted by HalifaxMtl666

It seem they want to change people mind about SJ and its industrial blue-collar image, then explain me why they support a refenery ? You could built whatever you want to make-up people mind, a new refinery wont help to change the realty .

I don't see why Saint John needs to rid itself of a blue-collar image. Saint John has long been a blue collar city and probably will be for a very long time. Its essentially part of the culture so I say embrace it... SJ wouldn't be the same if it was full of corporate types all wearing blackberries.

Originally Posted by Helladog

I vote for a CN tower sized lighthouse for the sugar refinery site...

Actually not a bad idea if it was scaled down a bit and it had a working light like the rotating light on Place Ville-Marie(?) in Montreal.

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by stu_pendousmat2

Little known fact, Moncton has the highest life expectancy east of Ottawa

http://www.besthealthmag.ca/uploads/.../citychart.pdf

Stole this from the Moncton thread. Since stu_pendousmat2 was bragging about having a higher rating for life expectancy, I thought I'd have a little fun and point out that Saint John had a higher rating for air quality

[PostModernPrometheus]

Saint John needs its own Eiffel Tower
Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday April 5th, 2008

Saint John needs to create an iconic cultural landmark - not as grand, but as widely recognizable as the CN Tower, Sydney Opera House, Eiffel Tower or Tower Bridge, says the consultant behind a blueprint on economic growth.

It's all the better if that landmark erases the city's longstanding and unflattering image as a blue-collar, smokestack town, argues Dave Hardy of Hardy Stevenson and Associates.

*sic*

His consulting firm looked at the impact of good examples elsewhere of signature landmarks, but does not recommend any specific options for Saint John - other than the suggestion whatever's proposed take advantage of the city's coastal setting and maritime identity.



Does this article upset anyone else????

There are a number of things our area needs - I'd say that once we better address poverty, drug abuse, homelessness, education, economic issues, roads, healthcare, the elderly, etc, etc. we can start thinking about something as completely ridiculous as an "iconic cultural landmark" (translation in my mind is a large investment of $$ into a structure which will look very impressive, but will generate little revenue).

Denying (or otherwise attempting to "erase") the historical roots of an area is more than naive. Saint John has a long history of industry & "blue collar" workers (whatever that imprecise term means) - deal with it. Why should this be covered up, glossed over or otherwise treated as though it's infectious?? Why not capitalize on it & embrace it? Work within that framework instead of trying to recreate it?


Anyone know if this is a LOCAL consulting firm which understands the area??

IMHO the identity of an area comes from the heart and soul of that area (i.e., its people) - not from some shiny & tall, narcissistic financial black hole.

[PostModernPrometheus]

His consulting firm looked at the impact of good examples elsewhere of signature landmarks, but does not recommend any specific options for Saint John - other than the suggestion whatever's proposed take advantage of the city's coastal setting and maritime identity.

How about plain old waterfront development? Marinas, hotels, shops, cruise terminal, residential projects, and the like? Practical / purposeful development.....

[Helladog]

There are a number of things our area needs - I'd say that once we better address poverty, drug abuse, homelessness, education, economic issues, roads, healthcare, the elderly, etc, etc. we can start thinking about something as completely ridiculous as an "iconic cultural landmark" (translation in my mind is a large investment of $$ into a structure which will look very impressive, but will generate little revenue).

You do have a point but how does one address poverty, homelessness and economic issues? I'm not trying to put your point down; I really want to know. Is is help for people with mental issues? If people are unwilling to work, there are only so many things that can be done.

I'm not being naive either. I come from a poor family from the South End/North End, and I've worked my share of unfulfilling minimum wage jobs through the years to pay the bills rather than looking for handouts. At thirty-six, things are finally working out for me on the job/money front.

[mmmatt]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Stole this from the Moncton thread. Since stu_pendousmat2 was bragging about having a higher rating for life expectancy, I thought I'd have a little fun and point out that Saint John had a higher rating for air quality

Interesting...while we're on the subject of air quality:

Saint John

Sulfer Dioxide - 9,012 tonnes/year
Carbon Monoxide - 3,869 tonnes/year
NO2 - 7,195 tonnes/year

Moncton

Sulfer Dioxide - 83 tonnes/year
Carbon Monoxide - 3.2 tonnes/year
NO2 - 4.2 tonnes/year

All info from National Pollutant Release Inventory

http://www.ec.gc.ca/pdb/npri/npri_home_e.cfm

I guess the wind must carry it all over to us and not affect the immediate area haha

[PostModernPrometheus]

You do have a point but how does one address poverty, homelessness and economic issues? I'm not trying to put your point down; I really want to know. Is is help for people with mental issues? If people are unwilling to work, there are only so many things that can be done.


No, no - I don't think you're trying to put anything I said down & no need to apologize!

My point is only this (and it's the idea in that article of the "cultural landmark" combined with effectively dismissing the area's roots that reaaaally got me going...) - my analogy would be this - how could one justify planning to buy a $ 70,000 flashy car (which would certainly convey a certain "image" to the casual outsider) when one was unable to make financial ends currently meet in other areas of their life (i.e, rent/mortgage, food, whatever). image to the outside: wealth. reality: broke & living a lie.

That's kind of how I see the idea (at least at this point in time) of a constructing a unique "landmark" (as I read it, this is JUST for the sake of constructing a landmark) for SJ. It seems a little frivolous at this point in time. . . I don't think that pricey monuments built to convey a contrived (and possibly unrealistic) sense / image of the area will change the fact that there are serious social issues in Saint John. . .in fact, it may help to hide them a little, which imo is even more dangerous.

Dont get me wrong- I'm all for development - I just really felt that the article's tone was one of projecting a false image of the area & not acknowledging the realities we face...i'd be much more in favour of a signature development area (i.e, waterfront / coast guard / north of union) which is more functional and has an impact on the economy as opposed to a landmark....


last point - I'm not sure if mental issues & "unwilling" to work are necessarily related concepts, but I do know that mental issues & homelessness are related issues...

[PostModernPrometheus]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Saint John is already changing the perception of itself and will only continue to do so. A landmark development will be a great addition to the city. What that should be, I'm sure, can and will be debated, but there are numerous ideas that would highlight the city's historical position of importance in not just NB, but in Canada.

Since quality is one of the things that gets dropped by the wayside first, I would insist that there be no compromise on quality for this landmark project.

And that means no cheesy developments!

Agreed - the area IS changing its image - and i also agree, it will only continue to do so (personally, i think it's a testament to the belief the people in the area have in themselves....a relflection, if you will, of the gritty determination the area has long been known for)

The ironic point re: quality being an early casualty of various projects is that a landmark development would probably never live up to expectations, unless the bar was set low, which would defeat the purpose!

[Seely32]

I agree with not needing a signature landmark. If we Paved all our streets and worked on infastructure including, telephone poles, sidewalks, and streetlamps, I believe it would set a precendent as well. Why cant we improve our already signature places ie reversing falls, fort howe, fort La tour, Martello Tower. If all those places and needs where fixed then I would say it would be time for a National Landmark. But if we go the way of a big "tacky' axe I would be extremely peeved.

[thefishingnut]

[QUOTE=PostModernPrometheus;3465207]Saint John needs its own Eiffel Tower
Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday April 5th, 2008

Saint John needs to create an iconic cultural landmark - not as grand, but as widely recognizable as the CN Tower, Sydney Opera House, Eiffel Tower or Tower Bridge, says the consultant behind a blueprint on economic growth.

Build CIRES (Canadian Institute for Renewable Energy Studies), and incorporate a museum for current and proposed energy technologies. Half day field trips could be run in the summer to Point Lepreau for tours, to one of the refineries for tours. Make the place off-grid, by incorporating solar, wind and tidal technologies (with a storage facility). Lantic Sugar location would be great, make it one of the landmark Federal buildings, designed by a world-class architect.

[Helladog]

I'm kind of thinking it's a bit too soon to create an icon; the money would be better spent on projects like NoU or the Coast Guard Site type of development, unless a private company wanted to do the whole thing.

Don't these icons come into being as a result of growth in a city, not because they are planned?

[Smevo]

Originally Posted by reddog794

It feels like at times, Saint John is adverse to change. I only need 8 more signatures for my nomination papers, and do you think I can get them filled? for the past three weeks I've had to go door to door, and even then when I talk about change, I get a goofy look, or am told I'm too young and am wasting their time. Why is that? YOu'd think people would rally around somebody who's isn't a politician, but somebody that's tired of half measures, and pretty pictures, and is young energetic is is serious, about helping.

I don't get Saint John sometimes.

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. One thing I have notice, though, is a trend in the younger generation (ie- ours) trying to get involved in municipal politics. As examples, in addition to yourself in SJ, a 21 year old university student is running in Fredericton (he doesn't really impress me, but neither does the current councillor for the area), and a guy I graduated with is running in one of the Sydney ridings in CBRM (I'm turning 26).

People have to realise that the issues are changing and that most of these old fogeys trying to get re-elected on pet-projects and pet-peeves are doing our cities more harm than good.

Another thing that concerns me (I alluded to it a bit in the Sydney thread) is the people who want to be told by the politicians what's going to happen. Aren't the politicians supposed to do what the people want? Not a select group, the majority! So isn't it better to have a person running for council/mayor saying "I'll do what my constituents believe will benefit them" rather than "I'll vote against North of Union because I don't want to be blamed for knocking down some old buildings" for instance. Anyway, just a thought/semi-rant.

[GUB]

I feel Like SJ had an opportunity to put something interesting on the Regional Hospital land. Instead there lies a generic office space/call centre that all passerbys coming in/out of the city must see. Maybe there's still space? It's a pretty prminent piece of land.