CHICAGO | General Discussions

[Skyguy_7]

^ I am proud about that for a second, but then I think of Hudson Yards. :/

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^ I am proud about that for a second, but then I think of Hudson Yards. :/

Hudson Yards is very big. I work right across the street from what's officially considered Hudson Yards, even though many people would say we are too. Big changes, but you have to realize that Hudson Yards and Manhattan West are both PLANNED projects. What these are in Chicago are just as impressive IMO but from another perspective - it's not just one developer but happened organically. I think that actually says a lot more to be honest. Hudson Yards is more like "We have a ton of land over here - let's build a bunch of crap and persuade a bunch of people to open offices and stores there." It's not really organic.

[Handro]

Plus Chicago is not NYC so... who cares. It's still impressive.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Handro

Plus Chicago is not NYC so... who cares. It's still impressive.

Yes, but comparing it to a planned project like Hudson Yards is a bit weird even so. I think what's happened in downtown Chicago is downright impressive. The changes that have happened in this whole stretch of River North are great.

[Halsted & Villagio]

Originally Posted by Handro

Plus Chicago is not NYC so... who cares. It's still impressive.

Marothisu loves Chicago... longtime contributor/huge supporter. He lived here quite a while and moved away not too long ago so its only natural that, from time to time, he make comparisons to the city he currently lives in. I wouldn't think too much of it/nothing to get bent out of shape about.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio

Marothisu loves Chicago... longtime contributor/huge supporter. He lived here quite a while and moved away not too long ago so its only natural that, from time to time, he make comparisons to the city he currently lives in. I wouldn't think too much of it/nothing to get bent out of shape about.

I was just responding to SkyGuy_7 who brought up Hudson Yards. Otherwise I would have never brought it up. So..

[gebs]

If anything, Lincoln Yards and/or The 78 might end up being more analogous to Hudson Yards if they're fully built out as envisioned (and I realize that's a huge IF).

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Halsted & Villagio

Marothisu loves Chicago... longtime contributor/huge supporter. He lived here quite a while and moved away not too long ago so its only natural that, from time to time, he make comparisons to the city he currently lives in. I wouldn't think too much of it/nothing to get bent out of shape about.

I think marosithu understands I was adding to his post in response to skyguy (hence the "plus..."). Noble attempt to keep the peace or whatever but probably a little overboard...

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by gebs

Yeah, we've built a brand new small city in just that 5 square-block area of Wolf Point and the north corner of Wacker. It's amazing to see such an incredible change in just five years.

It's amazing to me how well Chicago has absorbed the huge and numerous buildings from this cycle. Other than NYC, any other skyline in the US would have been completely changed by what Chicago has done these past few years.

[Steely Dan]

^ chicago will have built more towers over 800' this cycle than any US city not named new york even has in total.

once salesforce kicks off, that will make a total of 7 800+ footers for chicago this cycle.



here's how many 800+ footers there are in the US (including U/C):

NYC: 44 (includes 1 in jersey city)
chicago: 19 (+ salesforce very soon)
philly: 4
SF: 4
LA: 3
atlanta: 3
houston: 3
seattle: 2
dallas: 2
miami:2
cleveland: 1
charlotte: 1
oklahoma city: 1
pittsburgh: 1

TOTAL: 90



so yes, the skyline of any US city not named new york would have been RADICALLY changed by what chicago has built during this cycle.

[KWillChicago]

I get new york is the empire and we will never catch up but 40 to 19? Feels like like Netflix vs. blockbuster. Whata we got to do get some highlines asking for building space here?

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7

^ I am proud about that for a second, but then I think of Hudson Yards. :/

And I was there on Sunday... Makes The 78 feel underwhelming.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by BVictor1

And I was there on Sunday... Makes The 78 feel underwhelming.

I'm there 5 days/week In terms of size, Hudson Yards is 28 acres. The 78 is 62 acres. It's much bigger in actual physical area than Hudson Yards. In terms of square footage, Hudson Yards is 18 million to the 78's planned 13 million.

I don't think that's underwhelming at all. In terms of overall area, it's bigger and 13 million square feet is huge. In terms of extending an urban area, I actually find the 78 much more important. That big empty space is 62 acres just sitting there next to downtown. Previous to HY going up, there were buildings there and exposed rail yard that contributed to an urban landscape. Not like it is now, but still something. The current site of the 78 has nothing in it. It just drops literally all urbanity right then and there which is why I find it more important if they can do it well.

[chicubs111]

Originally Posted by KWillChicago

I get new york is the empire and we will never catch up but 40 to 19? Feels like like Netflix vs. blockbuster. Whata we got to do get some highlines asking for building space here?

Perhaps but who knows what the future holds..nothing is impossible...Perhaps 20 years from now Chicago becomes one of the safest big cities in America...goes through a dramatic growth spurt in population .. a major company like Amazon is founded in Chicago and gobbles up tons of office space..and we get the biggest building boom (ala toronto) we have seen in history and catch up to NYC in that category... One can dream right ... but not impossible

[BrinChi]

Originally Posted by KWillChicago

I get new york is the empire and we will never catch up but 40 to 19? Feels like like Netflix vs. blockbuster. Whata we got to do get some highlines asking for building space here?

I actually thought the opposite. If you look at it from a ratio of # of 800-footers to city population, then Chicago continues to punch WAY above its weight. For NYC to match Chicago's ratio, it should have close to 60 buildings over 800. Of course this metric is silly and just for fun. In the end, I am continually impressed by the tall construction boom in Chicago given the amount of buildable land available.

[Chi-Sky21]

I choose to look at it as we are almost 5x better than anyone else...as for HY. It is still being built over an active train yard on one of the busiest places on earth...THAT is what is impressive. Not taking anything away from the importance of 78 and it will be impressive in its own right

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

I choose to look at it as we are almost 5x better than anyone else...as for HY. It is still being built over an active train yard on one of the busiest places on earth...THAT is what is impressive. Not taking anything away from the importance of 78 and it will be impressive in its own right

The 78 will still be over 1 (or 2, depending on how you count) active train tracks. I haven't seen HY in person yet, but from descriptions and pictures, it seems much more like an exclusively finance and big business district, whereas the 78 might end up being more diverse overall. If that is what happens, I'd take the 78 over HY anytime.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by emathias

The 78 will still be over 1 (or 2, depending on how you count) active train tracks. I haven't seen HY in person yet, but from descriptions and pictures, it seems much more like an exclusively finance and big business district, whereas the 78 might end up being more diverse overall. If that is what happens, I'd take the 78 over HY anytime.

Yes - it's right now very big business oriented and is going to be that way. The mall there is mostly luxury stuff like Chanel, Patek Philippe, etc with some more regular stuff sprinkled in like Muji and Uniqlo.

It's not an exciting area and as someone who's worked in that area in some capacity since December 2015, it's still boring as hell. I actually enjoyed working in FiDi more than this and most people at my office would agree.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

I choose to look at it as we are almost 5x better than anyone else...

yeah, that's my take away too.

NYC is in another universe these days in terms of skyscraper construction, and given the radical imbalance in size, economy, and urbanism, combined with astronomically higher land values due to its island geography, only a fool would expect that chicago is going to "catch-up" to new york in terms of skyline anytime in the foreseeable future.

but NYC is such a national outlier on so many levels that it's not always a terribly useful point of comparison. compared to all of the rest of the "normal" US cities, chicago really does stand head and shoulders above the crowd in terms of skyscraper construction.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I'm there 5 days/week In terms of size, Hudson Yards is 28 acres. The 78 is 62 acres. It's much bigger in actual physical area than Hudson Yards. In terms of square footage, Hudson Yards is 18 million to the 78's planned 13 million.

I don't think that's underwhelming at all. In terms of overall area, it's bigger and 13 million square feet is huge. In terms of extending an urban area, I actually find the 78 much more important. That big empty space is 62 acres just sitting there next to downtown. Previous to HY going up, there were buildings there and exposed rail yard that contributed to an urban landscape. Not like it is now, but still something. The current site of the 78 has nothing in it. It just drops literally all urbanity right then and there which is why I find it more important if they can do it well.

Chicago's last two mega developments have gotten several density increases as they got built out. Magellan's been playing this game at LSE where they shift FAR from one site to another, then they go back and ask for additional FAR to replace what got shifted.

Central Station has a similar thing going on, but PDNA and other community groups down there are a lot more adversarial - at least LSE residents acknowledge they live in a vertical neighborhood and are somewhat motivated to support new buildings by the eyesore of vacant lots and unbuilt infrastructure...