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- - NEW YORK | 425 Park Ave | 860 FT | 42 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198983)

lakegz

Jul 11, 2012 1:10 AM

Nice to hear of a promising project potentially rising as high and so close to 432 Park Ave.

Arawooho

Jul 11, 2012 3:51 AM

This is nice, however I have a feeling this isn't gonna be supertall. Not sure why. My vote is around 850ft.

reencharles

Jul 11, 2012 4:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arawooho (Post 5761945)

This is nice, however I have a feeling this isn't gonna be supertall. Not sure why. My vote is around 850ft.

I agree. :(

Stained

Jul 11, 2012 4:59 AM

I doubt anyone, even L&L, has any true idea how tall this will be. No one knows what kind of development rights the site will be giving through the upzoning. Whatever those turn out to be, I have no doubt that every last square foot will be used. I would think that they might try to build something iconic, tall, and unique as one of the first buildings that will begin to redefine the upzoned district.

NYguy

Jul 11, 2012 5:17 AM

I've said all along I didn't really expect this to be a supertall, just a tower with a standout or "iconic" design. However, since designs are being presented for both current and potential zoning, it's likely there will be one presented.

lakegz

Jul 11, 2012 9:45 AM

I would be very happy for something in the 850-950 range. Ecstatic for anything higher.

NYguy

Jul 11, 2012 1:03 PM

http://observer.com/2012/07/everybod...park-redesign/

Everybody But Frank Gehry: Four Top Starchitects Finalists for 425 Park Redesign

http://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.c...park.jpg?w=184
Updating Park Avenue: an early conceptual rendering by L&L of the potential for 425 Park. Might these designers do them one better?

By Matt Chaban
7/10/12

Quote:

It is one of the stranger developments in the city, but it could also prove to be one of the most spectacular. David Levinson is poised to tear down most, but not all, of 425 Park Avenue—were he to totally demolish the tower, what he could replace it with could be quite a bit smaller, given a quirk in the 1961 zoning that reduced the density of the site, where a rather unremarkable and outdated 1958 tower now stands.

To fix this problem, L&L Holdings, Mr. Levinson’s development firm, tapped 11 of the planets top architects to sort out this challenge. He has now winnowed the designers for 425 Park down to four, according to The Times, with an unveiling expected shortly. All of them are Pritzker Prize winners with a mixed history in the city. Only Lord Norman Foster has enjoyed real success here, with his Hearst Tower and Sperone Westwater gallery on the Bowery. His fellow Brit Sir Norman Foster has had a number of almost-built projects, from Vornado’s Port Authority tower to a vastly expanded Javits convention center. Both are also working on nascent towers for Larry Silverstein at the World Trade Center. Then there is Rem Koolhaas, who despite making his name here with the book Delirious New York, has only ever built a store for Prada, and Zaha Hadid. The first woman to win a Pritzker Prize (along with her three competitors), she has only one American project to her name, the Cincinnati’s Contemporary Arts Center.

The six designers who did not make the cut have all built quite a bit here: Christian de Portzamparc, Herzog & de Meuron, Jean Nouvel, KPF, Fumihiko Maki, Renzo Piano and Richard Meier.

-Filipe-

Jul 11, 2012 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5762130)

any range on how tall this could be?

Roadcruiser1

Jul 11, 2012 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Filipe- (Post 5762412)

any range on how tall this could be?

I counted around 60 floors. Anywhere between 750-900 feet would be the best guess.

NYguy

Jul 11, 2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Filipe- (Post 5762412)

any range on how tall this could be?

That particular image is just a concept of a tower over the existing base by the developer. It looks to be not much higher than the original. The architects of course will have a broader range of heights and designs for what can be built.

NYguy

Jul 17, 2012 11:50 PM

This site will have gone from an 18 FAR when the tower was built, to a 15 FAR in 1961 (triggering the trickly base designs) to a new max of 24 FAR under new zoning. That would allow for a nearly million square foot tower here...

Quote:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...k-avenue-site/

Not all of the structure will be torn down. It happens that 425 Park Avenue, with 620,000 gross square feet of space, has 18 times as much floor area as its lot size. Zoning rules issued since it was built would limit a new structure on the site to a floor-area ratio of 15-to-1, meaning that if Mr. Levinson were to start from scratch, he could not construct a building as large. But it turns out, he said, zoning rules will permit him to retain the 18-to-1 ratio if he preserves at least 25 percent of the existing structure. The other 75 percent can be entirely new.

Under the new zoning plan, that would not be necessary, and a much larger tower could be built.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/144818156/original.jpg

aquablue

Jul 20, 2012 4:53 PM

He would then have to wait until 2017 to build this tower if he wants to take advantage of the new regulations?

NYguy

Jul 21, 2012 12:42 AM

^ Yes. But they couldn't do anything now anyway, as there are tenants in the building for the next few years.

http://observer.com/2012/07/starchit...sent-bigplans/

Starchitects Descend on 425 Park, Present Big Plans for Possible Replacement

By Matt Chaban 7/20/12

Quote:

Rem Koolhaas, Zaha Hadid, Norman Foster and Richard Rogers (all foreigners, including three Brits!)—each gave two hour presentations at L&L’s West 57th Street offices, according to a source, one in the morning, one in the evening, on Tuesday and Wednesday of last week. This was followed by either lunch or dinner at a different nearby restaurant. The architects themselves were on-hand to make the presentation to L&L principals David Levinson and Robert Lapidus and their deputies. There were joined by a design advisory committee led by Columbia real estate dean Vishaan Chakrabarti, CBRE CEO and REBNY chair Mary Ann Tighe, Municipal Art Society president Vin Cipolla and former Landmarks Commission chair and current Hunter College president Jennifer Raab.

According to our source, the designers each presented two different proposals, one in which the 25 percent provision was considered and another where the building could be torn down and replaced at the current floor-area-ratio with no restrictions, at an FAR of 18. There was no discussion of the recently announced Midtown East rezoning, which could allow buildings of exceptional quality to rise to a 24 FAR—50 percent bigger than the current zoning, a bonus that seems to tantalizing to pass up—because the plan had not yet been revealed.

The architects could always come up with such schemes at a later date, as the project is not expected to commence until 2015, when the tenants clear out all at once. The designs are due to be unveiled sometime in the coming weeks, with a finalist to be announced by the end of the year.

Sky88

Jul 21, 2012 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 5772506)

From http://observer.com/2012/07/starchit...sent-bigplans/

"Details of the different designs were not available, but they were said to be impressive. "

Well, I hope for a 980-1000ft tower. ;)

NYguy

Aug 30, 2012 11:18 AM

This is shown as likely redevelopment site 18 in the planning for Midtown East...(near the top)

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/145716670/original.jpg

Eidolon

Sep 21, 2012 4:23 PM

Mayor’s Midtown rezoning plan could be KO’d, real estate pros say

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2012/09/...Estate+News%29

September 20, 2012 03:00PM
By Adam Pincus

Quote:

Several Manhattan real estate insiders speaking on a panel this morning poured cold water on an ambitious proposal from Mayor Michael Bloomberg to rezone the aging Midtown East business district —with one executive saying it would never be realized and another predicting any impact would not be felt for 10 or 20 years.

Robert Lapidus, president of L&L Holding, which is planning to develop an office tower at 425 Park Avenue in the middle of the proposed zone, predicted Bloomberg’s attempt to spur Midtown East development would ultimately fail or be so watered down as to have little impact.

“It is a great idea that is not really going to come into fruition,” Lapidus told the audience during one of two panels today presented by commercial real estate publisher Bisnow covering the state of the New York market. “There are a lot of unintended consequences that have not been fully analyzed. Whatever is going to get passed is just not going to be so consequential, which is unfortunate.”

Another panelist, Leslie Himmel, a partner with property owner Himmel + Meringoff, backed the plan but said it would be years before the impact was felt.

“I think it may take a decade or two for an effect to happen. I agree in the short run it may not have a big effect,” she said.

I'm not very concerned about this news and neither should anybody else be. This tower and all the others in the midtown re-zoning district will happen once all the current projects at the WTC site, Hudson Yards Area, 15 Penn and the Brookfield owned plot are completed because nothing will stop those pre-war office towers and the post war boxes from aging.

The need for new office space in New York City is going to get greater with every passing year and only the construction of new towers can solve this.

Zapatan

Sep 21, 2012 4:25 PM

hmmm, yea, I hope that shouldn't be taken too seriously, because if it is, bad news.

NYguy

Sep 23, 2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 5839635)

hmmm, yea, I hope that shouldn't be taken too seriously, because if it is, bad news.

It's nothing new, it's just how some people feel about the rezoning, that it isn't ambitious enough. Also, the City isn't just rezoning the area for free, developers will have to pay up. So of course, some will grumble.

Quote:

Robert Lapidus, president of L&L Holding, which is planning to develop an office tower at 425 Park Avenue in the middle of the proposed zone, predicted Bloomberg’s attempt to spur Midtown East development would ultimately fail or be so watered down as to have little impact.

Another panelist, Leslie Himmel, a partner with property owner Himmel + Meringoff, backed the plan but said it would be years before the impact was felt. “I think it may take a decade or two for an effect to happen. I agree in the short run it may not have a big effect,” she said.

The zoning doesn't go into effect for five years, but there are many potential developers and developments. But obviously, we've already begin to see potential moves in play.

THE BIG APPLE

Sep 23, 2012 12:50 AM

This building is going to be diagonally across the street from 432 Park. IF it'll be a supertall, I not going to be a fan what ever the design suggests. I'm not a fan of supertalls being near each other (near as in across the street). The only cluster of supertalls near each other that I could forgive are the Twins and the Three Brothers cluster in Shanghai, because both were part of the design, and planned out well in advance. But I'll be fine with anything under 1000 feet.

If the building will have 600k+ sq ft then the height SHOULD be in the 400+ ft range (depending on increased sq footage).

yankeesfan1000

Oct 3, 2012 2:21 PM

Norman Foster Will Design New Tower at 425 Park Avenue
Wednesday, October 3, 2012, by Sara Polsky

http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/foster425park_10_12.jpg

"Four starchitects—Norman Foster, Rem Koolhaas, Zaha Hadid, and Richard Rogers—faced off for the chance to redesign 425 Park Avenue, a rather soulless pile of brick and glass between 55th and 56th streets, into the next Seagram Building or Lever House. And the winner is…Norman Foster! The Hearst Tower architect submitted a conceptual proposal (shown above) that "features a tapered steel-frame tower rising to meet three illuminated shear walls, adding to the vibrant New York City skyline. The conceptual design also calls for an elegant façade that seamlessly integrates with the innovative internal arrangement that allows for three gradated tiers of column-free floors," according to the archibabble in a press release.

The bigger idea behind that "innovative internal arrangement" is that the workplace is changing and 425 Park Avenue needs to accommodate that. David Levinson, chairman of site developer L&L Holdings, explains to the Times that office space these days needs "places where you can have an intersection of ideas, areas of collaboration," and Foster's design includes many such common spaces. L&L plans to start building the thing in 2015 and have it ready in 2017. Better luck next time, Hadid, Rogers, and Koolhaas!"

http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/425park...arge_10_12.jpg

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