Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[racc]

Originally Posted by city-dweller

I just was going to post this. I love this guy!

Its like the cops ticketing people without helmets in Vancouver. Yes in this case its the law but not exactly a great use of police resources.

Agreed. They are getting rather picky. They should focus on protecting people from the actions of others.

[FREKI]

Originally Posted by racc

Do your research next time instead of just inventing trivial excuses. It is not that hard with the Internet.
The City of Copenhagen 6,136.6 people/km2 is only slightly more dense than Vancouver 5,335 people/km2

The population of the city at 541,000 and metro area at 1.9 million are not significantly different from Vancouver either.

Speaking of doing research...

Copenhagen City has a density of 2.632/km2 and is quite suburban.. the population is: 1.199.224 ( Jan 2011 )


Sounds like you are making a mistake between the municipal of 'København Kommune' and Copenhagen City..

( quite common since the names are very similar in Danish and often called the same in English )


To keep it brief the Municipal of København ( pop 539k / density: 7250/km² ) is the oldest and largest - but it is only one of 18 municipals that makes the city!

Map showing what parts of the City 'København Kommune' covers ( black = the municipal, grey = other municipals )

link © me and Københavns Kommune

As you can see there's even a municpal inside it ( Frederiksberg Kommune pop 91k / density 11.028/km² ) and it's surrounded by others..


This mistake between city and municipals often result in very wrong numbers, both when it comes to size and population as here but certainly also when it comes to bike ridership and I'm sure have been made elsewhere in this thread..

Originally Posted by racc

What difference do old narrow streets make? There is even less room for bike lanes and still they have made it work.

Not gonna argue with you there, but what has been done here with bike-paths virtually everywhere has been at the expense of both drivers and pedestrians ( basically taking space from lanes and sidewalks to create the bike-paths ).. and by cutting down much of the urban trees to free space too..

Luckily the city is very decentralized and thanks to good planing and funding it's not a major problem, but in the old town where there is really dense not even bikes are allowed, it's a pedestrian zone only..

Originally Posted by racc

Not many people cycled in Copenhagen 40 years ago. Cars had free reign of the city. Then, when the Oil Crisis hit, they decided they need to change so they focused on building complete networks of separated bike lanes so people of all ages and abilities could cycle safe and comfortably. We need to do the same here.

It's true that a lot was done after the oil crisis, but it's certainly not true that people didn't bike beforehand..

Copenhagen has a long culture of biking and ridership and popularity was at it's highest between 1900 and 1940 where both cars and horses were too expensive for most workers to keep..

Here's a picture from 1920

link ©TaxaFinn

Much if not most of what has been done here the last 50 years have been to get car traffic flowing - shared roads with high number of bikes slows down the speed significantly and with only a few major roads leading into the core of the city separation of bikes and cars is important and necessary for the 60 and 70km/h speed limits..

Originally Posted by racc

If it is not easy, safe and convenient to cycle, people won't, that is the bottom line. They will drive instead because that is what we have spent decades making it easy and safe for people to do. We see the results in Vancouver, where only 4% of trips are by bike as opposed to Copenhagen, where 40% of trips are by bike.

I have to correct you there ( though I agree with you ) that Copenhagen is NO WHERE near 40% of trips

For the city it's about 16% ( see picture where Copenhagen is under KBH - yellow represents bike usage )

Transportation percentage by various types in selected Danish cities and regions:

Bil = car ( purple )
Kollektiv = PT
Cykel = bike ( yellow )
Gang = walk
Andet = other

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ryhkic.jpg

On a national scale the avarage distance to work is 24,4km - in Copenhagen it's 16km and very few bike 32km daily..


The thing is that my municipal is playing A LOT on the "green city" rumour it was linked to doing the climate conference and all that stuff and it has a tendency to not only label itself as the city ( playing off the naming confusion ) but also misuse data and stats.. ( never heard 40% before by 36% pops up quite often ) - reality is that such numbers only come remotely true when you look at districts and only at residents, not all the workers who come there or commercial transportation ect..


Reality is that just like any other wealthy modern western nation Danes likes their cars... and more than 50% of Copenhageners does just that for their daily commute.. ( I'm one of them ) that's not to say that people don't like to bike ( 16% of 1,1mil is after all almost 200.000 and many more use their bikes when going down to pick up a pizza or to the park etc.. ) it's just not near such double digit figures thrown around in reality..


As much as I love my city respected and used as a good example ( even idolized from time to time it seems ) I want it to be so without cheating or misinformation and when it comes to bike ridership here it IS high, but it's not "utopian" high..

People do have bikes, but they also have cars, use trains, buses and boats... typically the car is for shopping and commuting to work and the bike for small trips to the park, speciality shops, pub or for the kids to go to school..


It's great to have the bike infrastructure we have here - I have been commuting by bike for many years of my life ( though not anymore since I got tired of being sweaty and hungry at work and I save significant time by car ) but bikes alone can not work miracles nor fill the needs of the people and economy..


Gonna keep an eye on this thread for the next couple of days, so if anyone has any questions about the city or biking here by all means ask - alternatively Google Streetview covers the entire Kingdom so if curious give that a try..

Or why not my Copenhagen photothread with 100s of pics of the city over the last 4 years: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=129330

[whatnext]

Thanks for the local insight!

[IanS]

Thanks a lot, Freki. Very interesting.

One thing I've noticed quite a bit in both this, and other, threads on this topic are the profusion of strong, definitive assertions made by those who really have no direct knowledge, and instead conduct their "research" by google. It's always useful to have input from someone with some actual knowledge and experience.

Thanks.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by FREKI

Here's a picture from 1920

Bicycles were a major mode of transportation everywhere in the early 20th century because cars hadn't displaced them yet.

[racc]

Originally Posted by FREKI

Speaking of doing research...

Copenhagen City has a density of 2.632/km2 and is quite suburban.. the population is: 1.199.224 ( Jan 2011 )


Sounds like you are making a mistake between the municipal of 'København Kommune' and Copenhagen City..

( quite common since the names are very similar in Danish and often called the same in English )


To keep it brief the Municipal of København ( pop 539k / density: 7250/km² ) is the oldest and largest - but it is only one of 18 municipals that makes the city!

Please follow the thread before responding next time. Thanks for clarifying the structure of the Copenhagen area but that is really not the point. København Kommune does call itself the City of Copenhagen though. I looked a bit further and 40% is City of Copenhagen target for 2012. They did reach 37% in 2008. It decreased to 35% in 2010 due to a severe winter. Not quite 40% but close enough. Yes, that is residents of City of Copenhagen not the entire region.

http://www.cycling-embassy.dk/wp-con...Copenhagen.pdf

I was responding to cornholio's statement that "Copenhagen is very differnet from Vancouver and much denser." From what I can tell and from what you appear to be saying, that simply isn't the case. Correct me if I'm wrong but the density patterns for the Copenhagen area are similar to that of the Vancouver area. Downtown Vancouver is even denser than downtown Copenhagen.

Regardless of the part of Copenhagen area, the cycling levels are many times higher than that of a comparable area of Vancouver.

[SFUVancouver]

We gathered at Second Beach in Stanley Park and then rode the Seawall to the Carrall Street Greenway cycle track and took that into Gastown.

Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.

We stumbled upon someone who had just wrapped up participating in the Velopalooza 2011 Cargo Ride and was inducted as an honourary member of the Tweed Ride.

Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.

In Gastown we happened upon celebrations for the 125th anniversary of the Great Fire of 1886 which in a few hours destroyed more than 90% of the Granville Townsite, predecessor to modern Vancouver. Today is also the 125th anniversary of the Vancouver Fire Service, which was hastily founded while the conflagration was raging so that it could be put out. The streets were closed and every model of fire engine the city has owned were lined up, including this working steam powered fire engine which was generating the water pressure to shoot the stream of water in the background. Very neat and appropriate, too, for our tweed ride.

Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.


Taken by SFUVancouver, June 12th 2011.

Group photo in front of the Steam Clock taken and Photoshopped by the ride organizer.

Taken by Clark Nikolai, June 12th 2011.

Good times were had by all.

[FREKI]

Originally Posted by racc

Thanks for clarifying the structure of the Copenhagen area but that is really not the point.

I corrected misinformation that was used in an argument..

Originally Posted by racc

København Kommune does call itself the City of Copenhagen though

Been living in that municipal for 30 years and never heard of that..

Originally Posted by racc

I looked a bit further and 40% is City of Copenhagen target for 2012. They did reach 37% in 2008. It decreased to 35% in 2010 due to a severe winter. Not quite 40% but close enough. Yes, that is residents of City of Copenhagen not the entire region.

Maybe you should read up on it mate - that number is defined by percetage of who uses a bike "at least once a week" - it has nothing to do with percentage of trips as you present it nor even as primary tool for transportation - if you were to pull the number for people who uses motorized transportation "at least once a week" the number would dwarf bike "usage" competely...

Originally Posted by racc

I was responding to cornholio's statement that "Copenhagen is very differnet from Vancouver and much denser." From what I can tell and from what you appear to be saying, that simply isn't the case. Correct me if I'm wrong but the density patterns for the Copenhagen area are similar to that of the Vancouver area. Downtown Vancouver is even denser than downtown Copenhagen.

There are many ways to define density, but overall I will agree with you that Copenhagen as a city is not especially dense - roughly 70% of the city's population live in detached houses and as anyone spending a few seconds with Google Maps can see just how suburban and decentralized the place is..

Unlike Vancouver Copenhagen is not boxed in by terrain other than the sea and have been expanded outwards trough the "fingerplan" in quite a suburban fashion

Originally Posted by racc

Regardless of the part of Copenhagen area, the cycling levels are many times higher than that of a comparable area of Vancouver.

I'm not saying it isn't, but I am saying that it's no way near the figures being trown around..


Picking one of 18 municipals that makes the city and asking whom have touched a bike in the last 7 days doesn't paint the real picture - as I said my own municipal loves to do that kind of stuff for PR reasons, why I strongly encourage people to read the fine print before using it in threads like this as it usually has to be taken with, not only a grain of salt, but a lorry full


I think good bike infrastructure is a very wise investment in a city, but when it comes down to it even here PT handles a lot more people than bikes do and it can in the form of buses share the road with cars or as trains be located above or under ground as it mostly is here in the denser parts..

So to sum up I think investing in bikes is a good thing, but it is only icing on the cake and shoundn't be invsted in until the cake itself is finished.. in a modern city people need to move faster than 25km/h.. or at least have the option to so it doesn't waste productivity or limit work and/or recreational time..

[jozero]

The bike/pedestrian bridge crossing over the train tracks by low road has just opened. Its part of the Spirit Trail. They did a really nice job on the bridge, and it creates a nice walk starting at the bridge, cross over to some nice eats at Thomas Haas patisserie, then continue along to the waterfront. Part I don't understand is the starting just dead ends onto a road. What is the point of the bridge ? It would of much nicer, however unlikely, if the Spirit Trail followed along the water.

Site detailing bridge :
http://www.cnv.org/server.aspx?c=3&i=544

[s211]

Originally Posted by FREKI

I corrected misinformation that was used in an argument..
Been living in that municipal for 30 years and never heard of that..



Maybe you should read up on it mate - that number is defined by percetage of who uses a bike "at least once a week" - it has nothing to do with percentage of trips as you present it nor even as primary tool for transportation - if you were to pull the number for people who uses motorized transportation "at least once a week" the number would dwarf bike "usage" competely...

There are many ways to define density, but overall I will agree with you that Copenhagen as a city is not especially dense - roughly 70% of the city's population live in detached houses and as anyone spending a few seconds with Google Maps can see just how suburban and decentralized the place is..

Unlike Vancouver Copenhagen is not boxed in by terrain other than the sea and have been expanded outwards trough the "fingerplan" in quite a suburban fashion

I'm not saying it isn't, but I am saying that it's no way near the figures being trown around..


Picking one of 18 municipals that makes the city and asking whom have touched a bike in the last 7 days doesn't paint the real picture - as I said my own municipal loves to do that kind of stuff for PR reasons, why I strongly encourage people to read the fine print before using it in threads like this as it usually has to be taken with, not only a grain of salt, but a lorry full


I think good bike infrastructure is a very wise investment in a city, but when it comes down to it even here PT handles a lot more people than bikes do and it can in the form of buses share the road with cars or as trains be located above or under ground as it mostly is here in the denser parts..

So to sum up I think investing in bikes is a good thing, but it is only icing on the cake and shoundn't be invsted in until the cake itself is finished.. in a modern city people need to move faster than 25km/h.. or at least have the option to so it doesn't waste productivity or limit work and/or recreational time..

FREKI, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your participation in this thread. No, wait... I can! Thanks a million!

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by FREKI

Gonna keep an eye on this thread for the next couple of days, so if anyone has any questions about the city or biking here by all means ask - alternatively Google Streetview covers the entire Kingdom so if curious give that a try..

Or why not my Copenhagen photothread with 100s of pics of the city over the last 4 years: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=129330

I am going to Copenhagen in July. Is there a bike share or would I just rent bikes from the train stations like in Holland?

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by jozero

The bike/pedestrian bridge crossing over the train tracks by low road has just opened. Its part of the Spirit Trail. They did a really nice job on the bridge, and it creates a nice walk starting at the bridge, cross over to some nice eats at Thomas Haas patisserie, then continue along to the waterfront. Part I don't understand is the starting just dead ends onto a road. What is the point of the bridge ? It would of much nicer, however unlikely, if the Spirit Trail followed along the water.

Site detailing bridge :
http://www.cnv.org/server.aspx?c=3&i=544

The bridge goes over the 3 train tracks just like the one on the Central Valley Greenway. I don't think the waterfront will ever be parkland in this stretch. It is a port facility.

[FREKI]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

I am going to Copenhagen in July. Is there a bike share or would I just rent bikes from the train stations like in Holland?

The "City Bike" system is free to use ( you deposit a 20DKK coin that you get back when you return it to one of the many stations.. )

The system doesn't cover the entire city and the bikes is not suited for longer rides, but for shorter trips in the tourist areas it'll get the job done.. and you can't beat free

• Video Link

Alternatively most larger hotels rents out bikes or have arangements with companies that does - and if not there are several companies that rent out bikes for everything from hours to months.. ( just google )


If you have any questions about the city by all means ask ( you'll find my Copenhagen thread here )

The quick guide:

#1 - All Danes speak English ( the younger the more fluent ) so don't be afraid to ask..

#2 - while not crimeless the city is very safe, dont let time of day or area influence where or when you go - just don't mess with drunk people who looks like they shouldn't be messed with
With no last call the inner city is often as lively at 5AM in weekends as it is at 5PM..

#3 - always respect lightsignals - Danes don't expect jaywalkers ( or jaybikers ) so they will not be prepared and each year tourists get's injured crossing red lights..

#4 - PT runs around the clock and a ticket can be used in all forms and you can transfer as much as you like for the duration of a ticket - just note that the city is devided into zones and it's important your ticket covers the number of zones you'll be crossing..
It's advisable to buy a 10 ticket "klippekort" card as it's much cheaper and any unused "klip" will be refunded at manned train stations..

#5 - prices include tax - and since you are from out of the nation you can get the VAT refunded in many cases ( look for "tax free" stickers in the tourist district shops )

#6 - there is no tipping culture here so don't feel bad by not tipping..
If you do want to tip ( taxi or restaurant etc ) just round up to the nearest fitting figure that makes payment easier..
( all makes a living wage here so don't tip too much, they'll more likely shake their heads at you behind your back rather than be grateful )

#7 - don't be afraid to venture out of the tourist zones.. too many stay in the old town and think they have seen the city - they haven't!

#8 - when biking use hand signals to signal when you turn ( stretch you arm in the direction you are about to turn ) and stop ( raise your hand up ) and keep to the right as much as posible so others can pass.. and remember to follow bike traffic lights when such are present
And when you park don't block the sidewalk.. nor lean it up large glass windows..
If there are bike paths ( virtually all major roads have those ) use them, if not use the road ( keep right ) it is illegal to bike on the sidewalk and the police do fine people for it...
At night it's the law that bikes have lights on - it's never really get's dark here doing the summer, but it's still law from ~21:30 ~4:30 ( I would expect rental bikes to come with lights, if not any supermarket sells small LED lights cheap )
You can bring bikes on trains like the Metro and S-train - but they need their own ticket ( bike tickets can be bought at all stations ) - no bikes on buses! Taxis takes bikes too in most cases..
You can also bring it on regional trains ( needs ticket too ) just note that if you bring them on Inter City trains they will need their own reservation.. ( if you do use regional or InterCity trains do reserve a seat beforehand - they can get crowded and it sucks having to stand up for hours )
No helmet laws...

#9 - Danes like their alcohol and there are no laws against enjoying it in public, nor restrictions to places nor times you can purchase it..

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by FREKI

#6 - there is no tipping culture here so don't feel bad by not tipping..
If you do want to tip ( taxi or restaurant etc ) just round up to the nearest fitting figure that makes payment easier..
( all makes a living wage here so don't tip too much, they'll more likely shake their heads at you behind your back rather than be grateful )

Best. News. Ever. I hate tipping.

Also love that tax is included on everything.

[tybuilding]

Thanks Freki, great information. Maybe I will bring some mini lights with me.

[tybuilding]

Council unanimously endorsed several maps that will make up the Ultimate Cycling Network (moved by Bateman, seconded by Fox). The plan is broken down into three types of cycling: commuters, recreational and community/family levels, which makes sense to me. The next step, besides constructing and upgrading bike paths as our budget and roadwork schedule allows, is to identify cycling hubs where bike lockers and other infrastructure should be added (the new 202nd St. Park and Ride is an obvious). One question I asked was about cycling trip-share targets. Staff said more work is needed on those.

http://langleypolitics.com/2011/06/l...-june-13-2011/

http://www.southfraser.net/2011/06/t...g-network.html

Yesterday, Township of Langley council endorsed a new cycling network plan. By 2012, the Township will have the details of the plan complete including how to fund building the cycling network. Right now there is only minimal funding for building the complete cycling network. Hopefully the next council after this year's election will boldly fund cycling or I'll be in a retirement community before the ultimate build-out of this plan. Zero Avenue was not included in the cycling network and this is bound to upset some cyclists.

The maps:
http://info.nathanp.org/Maps/ToLCycl...edirects=0&d=1

I like the way they label their different cycling routes. Hopefully they will have signage that goes along with the type of cycling facility.

[tybuilding]

Port Moody came out with a new cycling plan. Details are on their website.
http://www.cityofportmoody.com/NR/ex...MODE=Published

There are results pictorially of a survey they conducted which shows what type of facility cyclists prefer the most: http://www.cityofportmoody.com/NR/rd...terBoard14.pdf

The Master Cycling Plan outlines our cycling plans and initiatives and we want your input!

Our vision is to develop a comprehensive plan to provide safe and accessible cycling facilities and establish strategies that will promote and encourage increased cycling in Port Moody.

Our objectives
- increase cycling mode share in Port Moody & the Region
- provide safe and accessible facilities for current and potential cyclists
- attract new cyclists
- increase public awareness around cycling as a transportation mode

What’s in the plan?
- cycling routes and facilities
- education and outreach
- priorities for cycling infrastructure improvements

Give us your feedback!
We want to hear what you think about cycling in Port Moody. What are the strengths, weaknesses, and opportunities of our cycling network? Where can we make improvements to reduce the barriers to cycling? Here’s how you can get involved:

Complete a short survey online by June 17, 2011
Pick up a survey at City Hall and return in person, by mail or by fax to 604.469.4533 by June 3, 2011
Attend an open house on May 12, 2011 at the City Hall Galleria. You can drop in anytime from 6-9pm
Contact
Email us us if you have questions or comments

[b5baxter]

Originally Posted by FREKI

...- that number is defined by percetage of who uses a bike "at least once a week" - it has nothing to do with percentage of trips as you present it nor even as primary tool for transportation ...

Hi, can you supply a source for that?

According to the document published by the "City of Copenhagen"
( http://www.cycling-embassy.dk/wp-con...Copenhagen.pdf ) the 37% figure applies "Percentage of trips to work or education in the City of Copenhagen, all residents..."

And according to the same document "68 % cycle at least once a week."

Obviously you have more experience on this subject than all of us but it would be good to have a source for the figures you are using so the misinformation could be corrected.

Is that document blatantly lying? Is it just translated into English incorrectly?

Thanks.

[FREKI]

Originally Posted by b5baxter

Is that document blatantly lying? Is it just translated into English incorrectly?

Thanks.

Basically as I've mentioned before my municipal loves to play off the green image ( despite virtually all power we don't buy from Sweden ( nuclear ) or Norway ( hydro ) comes from the coal...

And the hole term "Copenhagen, city of cyclists" is as the report itself mentions "A valuable brand"

My municipal have played on both the naming confusion and the biking culture for many years and I don't expect them to stop as there is quite a lot of cash in it ( how they bagged the climate conference among other stuff )..

What it comes down to is basically PR..



To start with the name.. what we call cities here ( "by" ) isn't exactly the same as the English term it's more administrative areas - and while Copenhagen is one city it is devided over many municipals eeach with their own administrative area..

( it's not unlike other old cities like London where "London the city" is a very different thing from the "City of London" )

Long story short the central municipal that holds the oldest part kept the name Copenhagen since the plan of the time was that all of Copenhagen should eventually fall under that municipal - that however never happened and while it swallowed some municipals it eventually stopped while the city kept growing.. ( why you will find the municipal of Frederiksberg ingulfed by the Municipal of Copenhagen.. )

Hope you are with me this far..

Instead of a growing municipal they created Copenhagen County where many municipals shared the city and part of the suburbs.. and the city itself was named "Stor København" ( "Great Copenhagen" ) as can still be seen on city signs when you neter the city - where inside it you will find municipal signs on the borders of municipals..

Ad to that that the inner district of Copenhagen ( a part of Copenhagen Municipal ) was also called "København" we are now up to 4 Copenhagens.. and that was confusing so people started refering to Copenhagen the city as "Hovedstaden" ( "the capital" ) Copenhagen the district as "City" and Copenhagen Municipal as it always had been "Københavns Kommune" bringing us down to 2 Copenhagen in Danish and 3 in English..


Fast forward a number of years and they scrapped the counties in exchange of much larger regions - so Copenhagen City who was by then made up by a number of counties was devided in two: "Regon Sjælland" and "Region Hovedstaden" ( "Zealand Region" and "Capital Region" ) and now people stopped calling it the Capital because that now means the entire region of northern Zealand but only 2/3rds of the city.. and went back to the old ways for the city..

So we're back to "Storkøbenhavn" and "København's kommune" on paper but not in spoken langauge where the City is called København and the municipal is called Copenhagen Municipal.. and the inner city is still by some called "City" though most now call it "indre by"

And it's this confusion that my municipal plays off in English.. there is no single administrative office for the "City of Copenhagen/Storkøbenhavn" and there is a culture of calling the center district "Copenhagen City" so it usally go unapossed in English..

Yeah it's mess - a huge one - but to sum it all up whenever you see anything from here calling itself "Copenhagen City" or siminal it's most likely only Copenhagen municipal ( you can regocnize that by the municipal seal that is a blue shield with 3 white towers or by the "I bike CPH" logo that they often use regarding this topic )

Copenhagen City with it's municipals..
http://i53.tinypic.com/30uaayw.gif


So to sum up what we are talking about here is a report by one municipal of the city.. only one.. ( you can see the municipal logo on the front page of the report ( blue shield with white towers )


Then that brings us to the numbers - they asked 1025 people in an municipal of ~540.000 and a city of 1,2mil ( 1,9mil including suburbs ) where a cyclist is: "a person who uses a bicycle a minimum of once a week"

So out of those 718 cyclists who does touch a bike at least once ag week you have 35% who use it for their daily commute ( though not nessesarily daily ) making it ~25% overall - further more in the report we can read that 35% of the cyclists use PT as primary transportation and we know that a large ercentage of the non-cyclists uses PT too so that number is already greater - not to mention cars that the report doesn't dare touch.. not to mention that most of the workers who work here comes from other municipals and they don't come on bikes from 40km out I can tell you that


So to sum up out of 1025 asked people from my municipal we have 261 people who say they use the bike as primary transportation, that's about 25% and if we add the numbers for the 18 other municipals it's seems about right that we hit the ~15% for the city.. though it very much depends on the weather what kind of transportation people take..

[b5baxter]

Thank you, FREKI.

I think I understand the issue of the municipality vs. the larger "city." It seems somewhat analogous to comparing the city of Vancouver (population of less than 600,000) with "Metro Vancouver" (population over 2 million). In fact it seems that the "municipal" we are talking about here has a similar population to the City of Vancouver and is a similar percentage of the overall metropolitan area. So comparing this area to the City of Vancouver seems like a fair comparison.

I read the report a bit differently than you do. It appears to me that there are two different measurements using different sample populations.

The definition of "cyclist" that you give along with survey of 1025 people is on page 4 of the report. This definition refers to a specific survey on cyclist satisfaction of cycling infrastructure. It is a survey of just cyclists and was conducted just in the years 2008-2010.

The 35% (for 2010) and 37% (for 2008) figures comes from different measurements that are on pages 6-7. These measurements have taken place between 1996 and 2010. These measurements are based on an analysis of ALL commuters not just cyclists. The text clearly states that the 37% is not 37% of "cyclists" but of "all residents."

I have tried to find others making this criticism of Copenhagen's claims about cyclists. And although I have found other criticisms I have not found anyone claiming that the 37% number is not an accurate measurement of the percentage of total commuters.