Joelma building vs World Trade center

[witness]

It was very shocking and totally unexpected seeing the World Trade center towers crumbling completely to the ground on the morning of September 11th 2001. In something related, I read a lot and saw a lot of video of the Joelma building in Sao Paulo, Brazil when the entire building was engulfed in a huge fire. But unlike the World Trade center, the Joelma building did not come crashing down. I kind of wonder now, how the Joelma building burned for 4 hours but remained standing, but the World Trade center came crashing down after burning for only 90 minutes.

[speedy1979]

The WTC towers collapsed due to a combination of factors. First the Steel Exoskeleton had a large hole punched in one side. Second the aircraft impact destroyed most of the internal support columns. Finally the explosion removed the insulation which is required on all steel framed building due to the fact that steel becomes progressively weaker once it's temperature exceeds 700° F.

While the fire in the Joelma building was incredible the Joelma did not sustain structural damage. In addition it was framed in steel reinforced concrete the concrete insulates the steel.

[M.K.]

not only that: 2 main points:

- Joelma is a very small building, it is not more than 70m high of a reinf. concrete structure, when WTC was more than 500m high with steel structure. So WTC is 8 times higher the other one. Weight in collapse destroys more of course.
- Joelma was just a fire disaster destroying inside, furniture and interiors. WTC was destroyed in its structural part, so collapsed. Normally high temperature of fire do not destroy concrete, but for steel is melted down.

Comparing both is just not fare for WTC.

[witness]

I also just happened to read that in 1945, a B-25 crashed into the Empire State building, but also unlike the World Trade center, the Empire State building did not collapse either.

[Biff]

^^^ I think in the Empire State Building case the B52 bomber wasn't nearly as big, traveling nearly as fast and carrying nearly as much fuel as the high powered, fully loaded airliners in the World Trade Center crashes. I think also that the Empire State building has a fairly ridged steel SKELETON covered in masonry where as the WTC buildings were a concrete core with light weight steel floor plates connecting to an outer steel exoskeleton. Maybe someone can clarify my last point.

[uaarkson]

Originally Posted by witness

I also just happened to read that in 1945, a B-25 crashed into the Empire State building, but also unlike the World Trade center, the Empire State building did not collapse either.

that B-25 was flying at low speeds and didn't contain jet fuel

the planes that hit 1 and 2 WTC were travelling at several hundred miles per hour with fuel that made them essentially missiles

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by witness

I also just happened to read that in 1945, a B-25 crashed into the Empire State building, but also unlike the World Trade center, the Empire State building did not collapse either.

So. . . did you get laughed out of the Straight Dope forums and are trying to find fellow conspiracy theorists here???

Thought so. . .

. . .

[Rail>Auto]

What kind of design features have been made to Freedom Tower to keep it from collapsing under the same situation?

It seems to me it would be very hard to build something that could withstand jet fuel with those kind of temperatures.

[speedy1979]

Originally Posted by Rail>Auto

What kind of design features have been made to Freedom Tower to keep it from collapsing under the same situation?

It seems to me it would be very hard to build something that could withstand jet fuel with those kind of temperatures.

Unlike the twin towers, the Freedom tower uses a steel reinforced concrete core that is at least 3 feet thick.

[LFellipe]

THE JOELMA BUILDING

The Joelma fire occurred on Friday February 1, 1974, in the Joelma building, a 25 story building situated in downtown São Paulo, at 225 Avenue Nine of July. It is one of the most notable tragedies to have occurred in Brazil.

Initial efforts led to the successful evacuation of some 300 employees before the heat and smoke became too overwhelming. Many remaining employees climbed onto balconies for air and a group of 171 individuals fled to the roof. A helicopter rescue was attempted but the heat, smoke and inadequate landing space prevented helicopters from reaching the roof until well after the fire had burned out at 10:30 AM. Despite the best efforts of rescue personnel and witnesses, who shouted and created signs instructing people to remain calm, 40 individuals jumped to escape the conditions inside and in failed attempts to grasp unreachable fire ladders. None of these jumpers survived.

Death toll estimates range from 179[1][2] to 189[3].



http://candyland.com.br/candyland_co...03/caindo1.jpg


http://saopauloegratis.files.wordpre...2009/05/11.jpg

Reputed to be haunted
The tragedy ended up helping to spread rumors among the population that the land where the building was built would be cursed, with speculation that there would have been a pillory, and ghosts that roamed the area. [11] During the fire, thirteen people tried to escape by a lift, but failed. The bodies, unidentified, were buried side by side in St. Peter Cemetery in St. Paul. That would be the inspiration for the so-called "mystery of the 13 souls," which gives them several miracles.

Most of the dead were employees of the CREFISUL , a Credit company
CREFISUL as unlike means LUSIFERC (Lucifer), and that is one of most speculated about.

Source: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edif%C3%ADcio_Joelma

Joelma Building Already


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cio_Joelma.JPG

[patriotizzy]

The name of the credit company and Lucifer is very creepy.