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  #1  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:07 PM
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Is anyone's city stuck between two regions or time zones?

It's always been a bit strange for me in Wilmington, Delaware how stuck between a few regions it is.

For example:
My friend is from Vineland, New Jersey. He is from the Northeast United States.

I am from Delaware. I am from the Southern United States.

Yet He is south of me and I am north of him.

It also factors in when I worked for Circuit City years ago. We would freeze our asses off in short-sleeved tee shirts while another store 10 miles up the road was a "cold weather northern state store" and therefore got different, warmer uniforms.

In addition, the bottom part of the Philadelphia Tri-State area is in the South, yet the rest is in the north? It's kinda screwy.

I have always wondered what other cities had these erks, especially the cities around TIME ZONES. After the bars close in one town, do people hop over the time zone and go drink for another hour, or to get to stores that have closed in the other time zone, and vice versa?
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  #2  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:23 PM
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I never knew that. I just always thought of Deleware as part of the North East. Would never have thought of it as the south.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:30 PM
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i've always considered delaware and maryland to be mid-atlantic. not really either northeastern or southern, but a melding of the two regions.

as for the time zone issues, chicago does sit on the extreme eastern edge of the central time zone, but for metropolitan area purposes, the northwestern counties of indiana that are in chicago's CSA follow chicago time even though they lie in the eastern time zone. having everyone in the metro area on the same time makes life easier.
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Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i've always considered delaware and maryland to be mid-atlantic. not really either northeastern or southern, but a melding of the two regions.

as for the time zone issues, chicago does sit on the extreme eastern edge of the central time zone, but for metropolitan area purposes, the northwestern counties of indiana that are in chicago's CSA follow chicago time even though they lie in the eastern time zone. having everyone in the metro area on the same time makes life easier.
I've actually read that the first time zone line in the United States ran through the Loop.

Until the 19th century, there were no real time zones - every town kept time according to the actual location of the sun in the sky. But with rail enabling faster travel, and scheduling issues making it relevant, the time in different places had to be consistent. Because Chicago was the nexus where trains would arrive and depart (to this day, no single logistics company owns track both east and west of Chicago), it became the changeover point. Trains coming in from the West would arrive at a station in the western part of the Loop on "central time", and trains would leave for points east from a station in the eastern part of the Loop that was on "eastern time".

Of course when time zones began to be used for things other than rail travel, this became highly impractical, and the time zone border was set to carve off the part of Indiana nearest to metropolitan Chicago. Imagine resetting your watch as you commute to work every morning.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:44 PM
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And you do know who and where time zones were invented right?

Time zones were invented by Sir Sandford Fleming, in Toronto, Canada.

I actually just learned that in Canadian History class, and I took a walk not far from my university and there is a plaque on a building here in downtown Toronto where Fleming came up with the time zones.
It was all for the Canadian Pacific Railway which was being built all the way to B.C.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:52 PM
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So, Sir Sanford Fleming went back in time to help the British and Dutch as they were exploring and exploiting the world?

Interesting...

Last edited by PhxSprawler; Jan 15, 2008 at 5:55 PM. Reason: Had to google it. Sir Fleming proposed global time zones.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
And you do know who and where time zones were invented right?

Time zones were invented by Sir Sandford Fleming, in Toronto, Canada.
not true, the first time zone was established in britain. Sir Sandford Fleming was the first person to propose a global time zone system for the entire surface of the planet.



Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) was established in 1675, when the Royal Observatory was built, as an aid to determine longitude at sea by mariners. The first time zone in the world was established by British railways on December 1, 1847 — with GMT hand-carried on chronometers. About August 23, 1852, time signals were first transmitted by telegraph from the Royal Observatory, Greenwich. Even though 98% of Great Britain's public clocks were using GMT by 1855, it was not made Britain's legal time until August 2, 1880. Some old clocks from this period have two minute hands — one for the local time, one for GMT.[1] This only applied to the island of Great Britain, and not to the island of Ireland.

On November 2, 1868, New Zealand (then a British colony) officially adopted a standard time to be observed throughout the colony, and was perhaps the first country to do so. It was based on the longitude 172° 30' East of Greenwich, that is 11 hours 30 minutes ahead of GMT. This standard was known as New Zealand Mean Time.

Timekeeping on the American railroads in the mid nineteenth century was somewhat confused. Each railroad used its own standard time, usually based on the local time of its headquarters or most important terminus, and the railroad's train schedules were published using its own time. Some major railroad junctions served by several different railroads had a separate clock for each railroad, each showing a different time; the main station in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, for example, kept six different times. The confusion for travelers making a long journey involving several changes of train can be imagined.

Charles F. Dowd proposed a system of one-hour standard time zones for American railroads about 1863, although he published nothing on the matter at that time and did not consult railroad officials until 1869. In 1870, he proposed four ideal time zones (having north–south borders), the first centered on Washington, D.C., but by 1872 the first was centered 75°W of Greenwich, with geographic borders (for example, sections of the Appalachian Mountains). Dowd's system was never accepted by American railroads. Instead, U.S. and Canadian railroads implemented a version proposed William F. Allen, the editor of the Traveler's Official Railway Guide.[2] The borders of its time zones ran through railroad stations, often in major cities. For example, the border between its Eastern and Central time zones ran through Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and Charleston. It was adopted on Sunday, November 18, 1883, also called "The Day of Two Noons", when each railroad station clock was reset as standard-time noon was reached within each time zone. The zones were named Intercolonial, Eastern, Central, Mountain, and Pacific. Within one year, 85% of all cities with populations over 10,000, about 200 cities, were using standard time. A notable exception was Detroit (which is about half-way between the meridians of eastern time and central time), which kept local time until 1900, then tried Central Standard Time, local mean time, and Eastern Standard Time before a May 1915 ordinance settled on EST and was ratified by popular vote in August 1916. This hodgepodge ended when Standard zone time was formally adopted by the U.S. Congress on 19 March 1918 as the Standard Time Act.

Time zones were first proposed for the entire world by Canada's Sir Sandford Fleming in 1876 as an appendage to the single 24-hour clock he proposed for the entire world (located at the center of the Earth and not linked to any surface meridian). In 1879 he specified that his universal day would begin at the anti-meridian of Greenwich (now called 180°), while conceding that hourly time zones might have some limited local use. He continued to advocate his system at subsequent international conferences. In October 1884, the International Meridian Conference did not adopt his time zones because they were not within its purview. The conference did adopt a universal day of 24 hours beginning at Greenwich midnight, but specified that it "shall not interfere with the use of local or standard time where desirable".

Nevertheless, most major countries had adopted hourly time zones by 1929. Today, all nations use standard time zones for secular purposes, but they do not all apply the concept as originally conceived. Newfoundland, India, Iran, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Burma, the Marquesas, as well as parts of Australia use half-hour deviations from standard time, and some nations, such as Nepal, and some provinces, such as the Chatham Islands, use quarter-hour deviations


source: wikipedia
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  #8  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i've always considered delaware and maryland to be mid-atlantic. not really either northeastern or southern, but a melding of the two regions.

as for the time zone issues, chicago does sit on the extreme eastern edge of the central time zone, but for metropolitan area purposes, the northwestern counties of indiana that are in chicago's CSA follow chicago time even though they lie in the eastern time zone. having everyone in the metro area on the same time makes life easier.
Lake, Porter and La Porte counties (IN) are in the central time zone, not eastern. They do not merely "follow" Chicago time. They are also the only Indiana counties to follow daylight savings time, which means that for much of the year they are in synch with the rest of Indiana, but that's because most of the state does not have DST.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by furrycanuck View Post
Lake, Porter and La Porte counties (IN) are in the central time zone, not eastern. They do not merely "follow" Chicago time. They are also the only Indiana counties to follow daylight savings time, which means that for much of the year they are in synch with the rest of Indiana, but that's because most of the state does not have DST.
Actually, Indiana recognizes DST now (as of 2005).
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Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by furrycanuck View Post
Lake, Porter and La Porte counties (IN) are in the central time zone, not eastern. They do not merely "follow" Chicago time.
i know they're in the central time zone now, but that wasn't always the case, the central time zone boundary was shifted to include those counties so that they could be on chicago time for convience's sake, having different time zones within the same metro area doesn't make any sense. had chicago never existed, those counties in northwestern indiana would be in the eastern time zone.

and for the record, Newton, Jasper, Starke and Pulaski counties are also now on chicago time along with Lake, Porter and La Porte
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Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 8:37 PM
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Hehe, Chicago time.
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Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 9:14 PM
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I've always found the extreme shifts in time zone borders to be interesting. Take Couer d'Helene, Idaho. It's in the Pacific time zone, yet some places in eastern Oregon, well to the west, are in the Mountain zone. There are lots of places like that across the country and the world.

From classbrain.com and nationalatlas.gov:
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  #13  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 9:57 PM
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You are right. Sorry about that, I forget to mention it was global time zones he invented
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Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i know they're in the central time zone now, but that wasn't always the case, the central time zone boundary was shifted to include those counties so that they could be on chicago time for convience's sake, having different time zones within the same metro area doesn't make any sense. had chicago never existed, those counties in northwestern indiana would be in the eastern time zone.

and for the record, Newton, Jasper, Starke and Pulaski counties are also now on chicago time along with Lake, Porter and La Porte
When was it not the case? I grew up in Hammond and it's been on central time since at least 1964.
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Old Posted Jan 15, 2008, 11:59 PM
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When was it not the case? I grew up in Hammond and it's been on central time since at least 1964.
well, maybe they've always been included with chicago time since the inception of standardized time zones in this country, but my larger point is that the central time zone line jogs east to pick up those counties solely because of chicago. and as chicago's sphere of influence has increased, more northwest indiana counties have switched from eastern to central time. if chicago had never existed, those northwest indiana counties would be on eastern time.
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Old Posted Jan 16, 2008, 1:02 AM
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^exactly.

many people, and many chicagoans even, dont realize that northwest indiana is as equal a part of the metro area as any suburb. like northern new jersey to nyc.
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Old Posted Jan 16, 2008, 1:35 AM
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^exactly.

many people, and many chicagoans even, dont realize that northwest indiana is as equal a part of the metro area as any suburb. like northern new jersey to nyc.
When I was a kid, the "local" (Chicago) news would report high school sports from downstate Illinois every night- from East St Louis for example- but they would not ever, ever mention Indiana high schools, not even mine (Hammond HS) in a town that literally TOUCHED Chicago (on the far SE side).

I also recall the weather map for "Chicagoland" that had the weather stats on a panel the exactly blocked Indiana. The world ended at Indiana.

Calls to Chicago radio stations were long distance- and long distance was expensive back in the day.

I could go on and on- when I went to college in Portland OR, I had quite a few classmates from "Chicago." They'd ask where i was from and I'd say 'Hammond," and I'd always get this rolled eyes response... so I'd ask where THEY were from and I'd get responses like "Glencoe" or "Winnetka." New Trier is a great rich-kid Ferris-Bueller-land high school but Hammond High was a 20-minute drive tops from 134th and Avenue O in Hegwisch. I always had more right to say I was from Chicago than those rich assholes did...
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  #18  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2008, 2:02 AM
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I've always found it interesting that China, at roughly equal size to that of the contiguous United States, is under one time zone...
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  #19  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2008, 2:52 AM
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Hehe, Chicago time.
It's actually D.F. time, as that's easily the largest city in Central Time.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2008, 3:52 AM
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How the hell does someone figure Deleware is in the South? The two couldn't be anymore different if they tried.
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