SAN FRANCISCO | Salesforce Transit Center

[Reminiscence]

Interesting developments in the science field. I wonder how long it will be until they start working with dark matter or antimatter.

I'm not sure how effective it will be on buildings. It sounds like a nice concept, but I have a hard time imagining how a city like ours will welcome a concept like this. A supertall tower thats invisible at times? Gee, I wonder what the FAA will have to say about that

[Reminiscence]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

wonderful...

In other news, They are now pulling core samples out of the ground near the skyway along Folsom. Part of the project is replacing and moving this approach. There's another rig set-up near the skyway at Beale. That one I presume is there because the new terminal will extend across Beale.

Its good to see some confirmed initial activity. Thanks for taking the time to report that, as I have not had the time to wander around town. Also, by "new terminal", I assume you mean the temporary terminal, right?

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by hi123

Does chris daly support the construction of this tower and project?

He seems to. He definitely supports the new intermodal terminal and seems to understand that can't happen without the tower.

[AusTex]

Hey guys! I need a little help understanding this thread/proposal.

$350 Million was paid by Hines to build a very tall tower that will help build a transit station.

The tower design has not been awarded, thus not designed; the air rights are not secured; and no approvals are on hand. The transit station (being paid for by the tower) is approved, has a design, and will possibly break ground in November. And these two projects are only two of many buildings within the transit property. Is this right?

And can the power that be post renderings of the proposals/winning designs/project on the first page of this thread. This would help others like me from searching 95 pages. Thanks.

[SFView]

Originally Posted by Reminiscence

Interesting developments in the science field. I wonder how long it will be until they start working with dark matter or antimatter.

I believe they are already working on these, but that's another story...

Originally Posted by Reminiscence

I'm not sure how effective it will be on buildings. It sounds like a nice concept, but I have a hard time imagining how a city like ours will welcome a concept like this. A supertall tower thats invisible at times? Gee, I wonder what the FAA will have to say about that

There should not be complete invisibility at any time, otherwise the FAA would not approve. There should always be parts visible to others. Remember, even without cloaking, a transparent top to shadows doesn't necessarily mean totally transparency. Thin or open structures above the roof may be permitted above 1000'. We only need relative transparency to certain portions of the building at the top, if and when it would otherwise cast shadow on Justin Herman Plaza. Anyway as we discussed, cloaking technology is still a long way off before it is feasible for buildings such as the Transbay Transit Tower. Perhaps there are other ways to apply optics or mirrors, but I don't think anything too elaborate or costly will be tried. For now it is much simpler just to let light through plain glass, gaps, holes or air.

For now, I continue to wonder how much of a design change there would be with a new 1000' roof height limit and unlimited semi-transparency above it. I also wonder at what point above 1000' would the building begin missing casting a shadow on the plaza. I don't think they would actually build a large transparent gap near the top, maybe something like Shanghai World Financial Center, but who knows...?

[peanut gallery]

Originally Posted by Reminiscence

Its good to see some confirmed initial activity. Thanks for taking the time to report that, as I have not had the time to wander around town. Also, by "new terminal", I assume you mean the temporary terminal, right?

No problem. Actually, I did mean the Pelli-designed terminal but I'm mistaken as it stops at Beale. I think one of the other proposals did go across the street into a park. No matter, I'm sure it's related to the terminal even if they're just across the street. Right outside the back of my building they were doing the same thing (ie: taking cores from the opposite side of the street from the current terminal).

[peanut gallery]

Originally Posted by austex

$350 Million was paid by Hines to build a very tall tower that will help build a transit station.

The fee hasn't been paid yet. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe they have to actually pay the fee until the tower is approved.

Originally Posted by austex

The tower design has not been awarded, thus not designed; the air rights are not secured; and no approvals are on hand.

The tower design (including height) is up to Hines/Pelli and the city's approval process to finalize. A proposed design is definitely out there and probably very close to what we'll end up with. The height is subject to the approval of the aforementioned Transbay rezoning proposal. IIRC, that just needs Board of Supervisors approval (the final step in a long arduous process). I forget the timing for bringing it before the board. Maybe September?

Originally Posted by austex

The transit station (being paid for by the tower) is approved, has a design, and will possibly break ground in November.

The terminal design has been approved by the TJPA. I'm not sure what further steps are required to finalize that. Possibly BoS approval. The temporary terminal will break ground this fall. The old terminal isn't scheduled to be demolished until August 09, after operations commence at the temporary terminal.

Originally Posted by austex

And these two projects are only two of many buildings within the transit property. Is this right?

This is correct. There is a lot of land that is becoming available in the coming years due to the removal of the Embarcadero Freeway.

[AusTex]

Thank You very much for the info. The project sounds fantastic.

Are there any recent renderings that can be posted? I would love to see them at the start of this thread. Thanks.

[peanut gallery]

You're welcome.

J Church would have to update the first post, but he hasn't been around much lately. In the meantime, there are lots of renderings here and here (warning: this one is a 5MB pdf).

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by austex

Hey guys! I need a little help understanding this thread/proposal.

$350 Million was paid by Hines to build a very tall tower that will help build a transit station.

The tower design has not been awarded, thus not designed; the air rights are not secured; and no approvals are on hand. The transit station (being paid for by the tower) is approved, has a design, and will possibly break ground in November. And these two projects are only two of many buildings within the transit property. Is this right?

Let me try to add a little to what peanut gallery said.

In a sense there are two "transit properties". There's the actual lot on which the old transit station sits which is to be the site of the new transit station and the tower (which, incidentally, are a unified design, intended to complement each other and very likely to be built as designed--except for the remaining uncertainty as to the tower's height--or not at all in the unlikely case that Hines can't get financing or can't reach final agreement with the TJPA).

Then there is the TJPA (Transbay Joint Powers Authority) Project Area--a multiblock area much of which is in private hands (and some of which belongs to the state but is still being used by the CA Dept of Transportation as a marshalling yard for the seismic retrofit of the Bay Bridge approaches) but which is included in the proposed height/zoning changes. A number of additional projects have been proposed within this area, yes.

[peanut gallery]

They've dug a short trench at the southwest corner of the temporary terminal site:


The workers in the trench are very carefully exposing a brick structure. They were clearing the dirt with brushes, almost like a paleontologist removing dinosaur bones:

[Reminiscence]

Transit Center District Plan From The Ground Level (Up): 9/17/08



From the San Francisco Planning Department:

At a public workshop on April 30th, the Planning Department presented initial ideas regarding land use, urban form, streets and open spaces for the Transit Center District.

Since then, the Department and its consultants have gathered additional information and developed further ideas to build on and refine what has been presented regarding land use, building design, open space, and historic resources. Whereas the April 30th meeting focused on skyline-scale issues, [a public meeting on September 17] will focus the discussion on the aspects of the Plan that will shape the quality of place at the ground level.

When: Wednesday September 17, 2008, 6:30-8:30pm
Where: Golden Gate University, 536 Mission Street, Room 2203
Why: To get even more plugged-in (and provide feedback)

Source: Socketsite.com

[hi123]

cool! more progress!

[c1tyguy]

From Curbed:

Groundbreakings: Temporary Transbay Terminal to Come



Soon, San Francisco will have to say goodbye to fecal-ridden, piss-smelling Transbay Terminal we've all come to know and love. Although the controversial Pelli Clarke Pelli tower and terminal won't be finished until 2014, the Temporary Transbay Terminal (TTT) breaks ground next month and will be fully operational in less than a year. Bound by Main, Howard, Beale, and Folsom Streets, the TTT will be used as downtown's transit hub, serving AC Transit, WestCAT, MUNI, Golden Gate Transit, SamTrans and Greyhound passengers while the existing building is demolished and until the new Transbay Transit Center is up and running. the San Francisco Redevelopment Agency will step in and build a mixed-use housing development and park.

[peanut gallery]

A little more detail from the Examiner:

Transit expansion hampered by new terminal
By John Upton
Examiner Staff Writer 9/10/08

SAN FRANCISCO – When a temporary transit terminal is opened for use while a new terminal for buses and possibly trains is built within a multibillion-dollar development project that includes a 1,200-foot tower, its limited size will prevent the main bus line using the terminal from expanding its services until 2014.

Work on the temporary downtown terminal is scheduled to begin in less than two months, allowing for demolition of the existing terminal, city officials told several dozen people at a neighborhood meeting Wednesday to discuss the project.

The temporary facility will be located one block south-east from the current terminal, between Main and Beale streets and Folsom and Howard streets. It will operate for five years while a new permanent facility, which transit officials have predicted will become the "Grand Central of the West" is built at the site of the current station.

As with the current facility, the temporary terminal will be used by Muni, Golden Gate Transit, Greyhound, AC (Alameda-Contra Costa) Transit District and Western Contra Costa Transit Authority buses.

AC Transit will not be able to expand its services while the temporary terminal is used because of limited space, Transbay Joint Powers Authority project manager Philip Sandri said during the meeting.

Residents who attended the meeting voiced concerns over the loss of 600 parking spaces, which will not be replaced, and the conversion of some lanes around the temporary terminal into bus-only lanes.

The land used for the temporary terminal will be redeveloped for other uses after 2014, according to Sandri. Construction of the temporary terminal is expected to begin Oct. 31 and the terminal will open in October 2009, according to authority documents.

Work on the new Transbay Transit Terminal and office tower is expected to run from 2010 until 2014, when the new Transbay Transit Center is scheduled to open.

During the course of the temporary terminal's construction, traffic disruptions are expected throughout the course of the project, according to the authority.

Additionally, a "casual carpool" program will be relocated from the east side of Beale Street to the west side of Beale Street.

The new multi-modal Transbay Transit Center will be built at the site of the existing 69-year old terminal, which is between Mission and Folsom streets and between Main and Second streets.

[peanut gallery]

So it will start on Halloween and open a year later. I can't wait.

I couldn't have a more opposite reaction to this if I tried:

Residents who attended the meeting voiced concerns over the loss of 600 parking spaces

Oh no, we won't have all that lovely surface parking. The horror!

[peanut gallery]

One last thing: I really wish I had known about this. I would have attended and asked about the logistics of building the temporary terminal while the old skyway is still in place.

[Reminiscence]

Was this another meeting in addition to the one suppose to take place on September 17, or did Socketsite just commit a typo?

[peanut gallery]

Good question, Rem.

I got my answers about the skyway at the Rincon Hill website. Jamie Whitaker attended and posted his notes, which are well worth reading at the link above. The part I'm most interested in:

The first phase is scheduled to be finished and begin operations by August 2009. The second phase, which includes tearing down the eastern overhead ramps, will complete by October 2009.

There is also a site specifically for the temporary terminal that I didn't know about.

[peanut gallery]

This is an interesting quote from the temporary terminal site I posted above:

The block of downtown San Francisco that will be occupied by the Temporary Terminal will, at the end of the project, be transformed into 732 new residential units and a one-acre public park. Folsom Street, the southern boundary of the Temporary Terminal, will emerge as the centerpiece of the new Transbay neighborhood with widened sidewalks, cafes, markets and views of the San Francisco Bay.

Can someone smarter than me figure out approximate size (floors and height -- I know there is a new height limit, but they have a specific idea here; does it maximize the zoning?) of the building that would have 732 units in the space made available after the temporary terminal is no longer needed? Also, I love the sound of "widened sidewalks, cafes, markets" along Folsom. Right now, it feels sort of like walking along a freeway.