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  #1  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 12:53 AM
Janbe Janbe is offline
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Does Toronto Need A Casino?

If there is going to be a casino in Toronto it is going to be at Woodbine Racetrack. Woodbine already has slots so adding more gaming would be more acceptable to city council.

The better question to ask is if the MTCC project going to go forward without the casino?
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 7:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janbe View Post
If there is going to be a casino in Toronto it is going to be at Woodbine Racetrack. Woodbine already has slots so adding more gaming would be more acceptable to city council.

The better question to ask is if the MTCC project going to go forward without the casino?
Oxford purchased the convention centre long before the provincial government announced plans to allow a casino in Toronto. Icing on the cake, the press released at that time was they would proceed with a multi-tower development and redevelopment of all of Front street when the market conditions were right.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2012, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Janbe View Post
If there is going to be a casino in Toronto it is going to be at Woodbine Racetrack. Woodbine already has slots so adding more gaming would be more acceptable to city council.
If that's how simplistic the discussion is down at City Council its time to toss the lot of them.
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  #4  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 1:30 AM
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  #5  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 1:53 AM
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I just dont see locals going to the casino.

Toronto gets 40 million tourist per year, those are the ones that will be going.

I want the railway decked, I want these towers and convention center built.
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  #6  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 2:07 AM
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We can lose this wonderful project because of city council. This is really depressing.
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  #7  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2012, 4:14 AM
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  #8  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2012, 12:42 AM
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Why not build the Casino in Rexdale instead? The site already has a gambling facility and it couldn't possibly be more of an eyesore than in its current state. It's also a stone's throw from Pearson.

Then again, the downtown convention center is overdue to be gutted and revitalized.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2013, 2:22 PM
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The following post was made in the Oxford Towers thread. I have copied it here so that discussion on the merits or not or a casino may be continued in this thread and not clog the building's thread with discussion about actually whether Toronto needs a casino.

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Originally Posted by Coral Builder View Post
I am enamored by these designs and I wish that this beautiful complex be built. But not at the cost of violence, social degradation, and economic despair that a downtown casino run by a Las Vegas consortium will bring. This is a great proposal, but we need ironclad municipal by-laws to regulate this casino, its hours of operation, its procedures for safeguarding security of patrons and their condition, and a revenue share agreement to fund city initiatives like transit and infrastructure improvements, as well treatment and prevention of gambling addiction. I'm all for development, but lets make sure this is a smart development. Lest we forget, we live in one of the greatest cities in the world, one I would not trade for living in New York, Chicago, LA, HK or any European capitol (ad I have lived in many), so let us continue to make smart development decisions and preserve our way of life, which is far more important than a building.
I'm not sure how you can say for certain that the construction of a casino will lead to the social degradation you describe. Is this not just scaremongering by those opposed to a casino. I've never seen hard facts, studies and concrete evidence that the construction of a casino always leads to a downward spiral of the neighbourhood. I've only heard anecdotal comments to the such.

In my experience of casinos around the world I have never seen anything like this with possible exceptions in Las Vegas. And that is a whole different city unlike anywhere else in the world.

True, MGM are big in Las Vegas, but that doesn't necessarily equate to the social problems experienced there being transported here too. I for one am excited at the thought of a casino in Toronto. And think the Oxford Towers proposal is a great location for one. I would also think that a redevelopment of Ontario Place into a concert venue/casino would work well too.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2013, 6:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Coral Builder View Post
I am enamored by these designs and I wish that this beautiful complex be built. But not at the cost of violence, social degradation, and economic despair that a downtown casino run by a Las Vegas consortium will bring.
I was a 20 year resident of Halifax and that wasn't the result when they built their downtown casino. It's been a huge benefit for the city. It helped tourism, employment, kept gambling revenue in Halifax, and was just one more cog in the wheel helping the city attract and retain talent.

The reality is that Toronto and Ontario are already heavily involved in the gambling industry already. It's a part of modern life and the days of puritanical Presbyterian 'Toronto the Good' are long gone... and good riddance.

I'm not a gambler, but it's the height of selfishness (and authoritarian) to argue that just because someone doesn't like something then no one else can have it either. If you don't like casinos, don't visit them.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2013, 5:39 AM
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I think you are kind of missing my argument (thanks for moving this to the right thread though I believe this discussion is integral to the development itself, as one will not happen without the other, as per Oxford's announcement..).

My main point is that there are right ways and a wrong ways to build a casino in a major city, and if you don't think Casino's can be harmful to society I suggest you do a little reading such as the following:

Taken from a recent municipal study in Columbus, Ohio (2005) on the effects of a potential Casino development there (sanctioned by pro-casino municipal government):

Source: http://www.communityresearchpartners...%201-21-10.pdf

"The literature shows that the most clear social impact of casino development is the increase in problem gambling that results. It is estimated that 1.2% of U.S. adults are pathological gamblers at some point in their lifetime and that another 1.5% are problem gamblers. The likelihood of being a pathological or problem gambler is double for a person living within 50 miles of a casino. (This would include most of the GTA if the Casino is located downtown)
2. Using the NORC cost figures, CRP estimates that if a casino were built in Columbus (a city of 797,434 people or <1/6 of the GTA), there may be over 22,000 new problem and pathological gamblers in Franklin County. The additional social cost to address this increase in problem and pathological gambling is estimated to be:
- $28 million annually in ongoing costs, stemming from job loss, unemployment and welfare benefits, poor physical and mental health, and gambling disorder treatments. These may translate into higher demands on the community’s human services systems.
- $223 million in total lifetime costs from one‐time or less frequently occurring events such as bankruptcies, arrests, imprisonment, and legal fees for divorce. These costs will be borne primarily by individuals and families, businesses, and government, but may also impact the human services system.
3. The literature is mixed on whether casinos increase crime in adjacent neighborhoods any more than other facilities that attract large numbers of visitors. There are also mixed research findings on the net positive or negative effect of casinos on the local economy, identifying both pros (more jobs) and cons (jobs are low paid).
4. In states where casino tax revenues have been directed back to the local communities where casinos are located, they have typically been used for economic and physical development projects, rather than for human services.
5. Local government social service departments in Las Vegas and Atlantic City do not appear to have services targeted to address problem gambling. The University of Pittsburgh School of Social Work has a Gambling Counseling Training Institute to train service providers in recognizing and treating problem gambling."

So by this estimate and adding the appropriate multiple to increase the population affected (6.875*22,000 people = 151,000 new problem or addicted gamblers in Toronto) at an estimated total lifetime cost of minimum 1.533 Billion USD and an annual ongoing cost of 158M USD. I say minimum because Canada's social services are more comprehensive (include health and mental health outreach, expanded legal aid, etc..) than in the US.

Let's just make sure we are not dupped like the sweet, innocent Canadians we are into building this great looking development and picking up the pieces later. We can negotiate all the proper safeguards and compensation up front, as well as funding for things like transit and other infrastructure, and if everyone still wants to proceed, so be it.

And just so we are clear, I would like nothing more than to have the whole thing built as it looks in the beautiful renders.
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2013, 4:21 AM
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Not

Absolutely not.

Having a casino makes a city unique, right?

Ok, maybe if the house stake reduced the fares on the TRT.
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  #13  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2013, 2:33 AM
Stryker Stryker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coral Builder View Post
I think you are kind of missing my argument (thanks for moving this to the right thread though I believe this discussion is integral to the development itself, as one will not happen without the other, as per Oxford's announcement..).

My main point is that there are right ways and a wrong ways to build a casino in a major city, and if you don't think Casino's can be harmful to society I suggest you do a little reading such as the following:

Taken from a recent municipal study in Columbus, Ohio (2005) on the effects of a potential Casino development there (sanctioned by pro-casino municipal government):

Source: http://www.communityresearchpartners...%201-21-10.pdf

"The literature shows that the most clear social impact of casino development is the increase in problem gambling that results. It is estimated that 1.2% of U.S. adults are pathological gamblers at some point in their lifetime and that another 1.5% are problem gamblers. The likelihood of being a pathological or problem gambler is double for a person living within 50 miles of a casino. (This would include most of the GTA if the Casino is located downtown)
100,000 lives destroyed so we can have another building to gawk at?

Seriously some of yall should do a test for sociopathy.


Anyhow bring on the personal freedom argument, where it's people own stupid fault.., which equates to I really view people of low intelligence as second class people.
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2013, 4:53 AM
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No one needs a casino, but no one needs night clubs or baseball teams either. There's obviously demand for a big casino so lets build one instead of losing all those dollars to areas, cities, countries that do have one.
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 11, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Well said!
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  #16  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2013, 8:37 PM
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As a future resident (April 1, 2013) of your great city, I find it very insulting that certain people feel the need to prevent everyone from availing of a casino due to the in-ability of a select group to control their habits. It's very funny that when a new booze store opens or club opens you don't hear people clamoring down on making booze illegal. Just my 2 cents worth.
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  #17  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2013, 9:21 PM
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Not sure if this is news yet but the city of Toronto's executive council voted overwhelmingly (9-4) to support an application for a casino.

Important note THIS IS NOT AN APPROVAL OF A CASINO IN TORONTO. The casino still needs to be debated and agreed upon by council as a whole, but it is a positive step.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2013, 7:52 AM
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Does a city need a casino? Does a city need alcohol or night clubs? No, but it helps.
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World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
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  #19  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2013, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Does a city need a casino? Does a city need alcohol or night clubs? No, but it helps.
Helps what? Jobs? Is that all it provides?
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  #20  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2013, 7:26 AM
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Helps what? Jobs? Is that all it provides?
Of course not.

- Jobs
- Entertainment
- Tourism
- Increased tax base

Those are the primary benefits, but does one really need any more? Demand should be enough all by itself. If demand warrants a casino we should build one. I have zero interest in living in a nanny state. Besides, its about time we shed our conservative image and injected more fun/glamour into our city. TIFF and our theatre scene have been a big boost in that direction, this would be another major piece of the puzzle.

The days of Presbyterian Toronto when we couldn't drink on Sundays is long gone and good riddance. Or maybe its rearing its ugly head once again?
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World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
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