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  #801  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 9:31 PM
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I’ve been to Melbourne and found it much more comparable to Toronto than any US city in layout, demographics and overall vibe.
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  #802  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 9:43 PM
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Toronto's sister cities are Chicago, Chongqing, Frankfurt and Milan.

I wonder why Toronto and Melbourne haven't pursued a sister city relationship.
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  #803  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Me too.

Sydney is more of a mix of Montreal and Vancouver in my book.

It's more disorganized and hedonistic whereas Melbourne is more "sensible".
Hedonistic in the sense of its urban form? Certainly not culturally...
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  #804  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:19 PM
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Employment in selected industries in Toronto and Montreal, 1931

Toronto

Iron and its products 14,297
Clothing 11,386
Food processing 9,043
Printing, publishing and bookbinding 8,241
Electrical apparatus 4,948

Montreal

Iron and its products 18,415
Clothing 17,884
Food processing 8,772
Textiles 6,993
Leather 6,211
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  #805  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:20 PM
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Melbourne's extremely wide, low-slung residential streets have absolutely nothing in common with Toronto, but the commercial streets are a dead ringer, especially with the trams/streetcars.

Culturally, at least, Melbourne is about halfway between Toronto and Montreal in terms of the vague vibeyness that Docere said we shouldn't talk about
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  #806  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:22 PM
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I guess it's fine to use, but I don't think you can use the term "vibe" to win arguments lol
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  #807  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Employment in selected industries in Toronto and Montreal, 1931

Toronto

Iron and its products 14,297
Clothing 11,386
Food processing 9,043
Printing, publishing and bookbinding 8,241
Electrical apparatus 4,948

Montreal

Iron and its products 18,415
Clothing 17,884
Food processing 8,772
Textiles 6,993
Leather 6,211
Why the discrepancy in terms of the last two categories? Was there no textile industry in Toronto and no publishing industry in Montreal?
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  #808  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:27 PM
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Top 5, should have been clearer.
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  #809  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:29 PM
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Data here (starting on page 746): https://archive.org/details/31761119...e/746/mode/2up
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  #810  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:29 PM
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Interesting that clothing manufacturing was the number two industry in each city, but the importance of textiles and leather in Montreal suggests it was a much bigger centre for the garment industry overall.
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  #811  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:41 PM
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A more complete list.

Toronto, 1931

Iron and its products 14,297
Clothing 11,386
Food processing 9,043
Printing, publishing and bookbinding 8,241
Electrical apparatus 4,948
Textile products 4,365
Rubber products 2,747
Leather 2,316
Paper products 2,301
Furniture 1,694

Montreal

Iron and its products 18,415
Clothing 17,884
Food processing 8,772
Textile products 6,993
Leather 6,211
Printing, publishing and bookbinding 5,821
Electrical apparatus 3,344
Rubber products 1,531
Furniture 1,390
Paper products 1,386
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  #812  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2024, 11:48 PM
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The clothing industry is arguably the single largest in both, employing 20% of manufacturing workers in Montreal and 13% in Toronto at the time.

Iron/metal industries can be broken down further:

Montreal

Railway rolling stock 7,071
Foundry products 3,168
Smelting, refining 2,587
Boilers/engines 2,325

Toronto

Boilers/engines 3,273
Foundry products 2,637
Autos, aircraft 2,320
Smelting, refining 1,227

Not listed = less than 1000.
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  #813  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 1:28 AM
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Perhaps the following is true in terms of each country’s once alpha city being eclipsed by their current alpha:
Toronto = Melbourne
Montreal = Sydney
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  #814  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 2:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
Interesting that clothing manufacturing was the number two industry in each city, but the importance of textiles and leather in Montreal suggests it was a much bigger centre for the garment industry overall.
It could also relate to manufacturing sectors in other nearby cities and how they fit into the regional supply chains. E.g., Hamilton had a textile industry that employed more than Toronto's (4,501 vs. 4,365) but its clothing manufacturers employed far fewer people (471 vs. 11,386). Perhaps a lot of textiles made in Hamilton were put on trains heading to Toronto?

Interesting to see those old numbers!
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  #815  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 2:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Me too.

Sydney is more of a mix of Montreal and Vancouver in my book.

It's more disorganized and hedonistic whereas Melbourne is more "sensible".
IMO:
Sydney leaves a distinct impression. I suppose in some small ways there are some resemblances to Canadian cities, but to call it a mix of Montreal and Vancouver is really doing it a disservice and doesn't come close to describing the city.
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  #816  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 2:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
IMO:
Sydney leaves a distinct impression. I suppose in some small ways there are some resemblances to Canadian cities, but to call it a mix of Montreal and Vancouver is really doing it a disservice and doesn't come close to describing the city.
Oh it definitely does.

I was just saying that in a context where we were comparing it to Canada's biggest cities.
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  #817  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 6:15 AM
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Some in Toronto are trying hard to be like Chicago. This kind of thing has become a trend on social media.
Video Link
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  #818  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
It could also relate to manufacturing sectors in other nearby cities and how they fit into the regional supply chains. E.g., Hamilton had a textile industry that employed more than Toronto's (4,501 vs. 4,365) but its clothing manufacturers employed far fewer people (471 vs. 11,386). Perhaps a lot of textiles made in Hamilton were put on trains heading to Toronto?

Interesting to see those old numbers!
Yup, the industrial belt of Southern Ontario was well underway. The most advanced industries were there, close to the US market. Toronto benefitted from that.

Montreal meanwhile was kind of sitting on its own and though it obviously had a diversity of industries it was weighted toward more low-wage, less dynamic industries like textiles.
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  #819  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 5:39 PM
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The clothing industry was in Montreal and Toronto mostly which attracted a lot of Jewish immigrant workers. Many had been tailors in Europe and furthermore it only took a small amount of capital to start an enterprise of one's own.

A documentary from the last days of Jewish Spadina:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcikwFQ_drM
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  #820  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2024, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Yup, the industrial belt of Southern Ontario was well underway. The most advanced industries were there, close to the US market. Toronto benefitted from that.

Montreal meanwhile was kind of sitting on its own and though it obviously had a diversity of industries it was weighted toward more low-wage, less dynamic industries like textiles.
In a way Toronto and Southwestern Ontario are lucky that they were close to what would be the industrial heartland of the United States for at least 60 years - from about 1910 - 1970 - and that the main industry in that region was automobiles.

Cars are exactly what you want to build a robust and diversified manufacturing base around. They have thousands of parts, but they're built in large volumes unlike, say, aircraft, and need a just-in-time supply chain where parts suppliers need to be nearby. Auto workers are also a politically important bloc and governments still pull out all the stops to protect these jobs, compared to other manufacturing industries, and that protection cascades to the hundreds of parts suppliers in the region. A Milwaukee drill is not assembled anywhere near Milwaukee nor does the parent company source its parts from surrounding Wisconsin, for example.

Montreal was a little closer to the older heart of American manufacturing in New York State and New England, but those were dominated by company towns of small-to-medium-sized manufacturers of things that didn't have the logistical needs or political base to resist outsourcing. A glove manufacturing plant in upstate NY or a maker of alarm clocks, or things like that. These are the kinds of industries that would have first moved to the Deep South, then Mexico, then China.
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