Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[mattreedah]

Move Nordstrom into the Forever 21 space on Main

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by mattreedah

Move Nordstrom into the Forever 21 space on Main

Problem is that Nordstrom is pretty big, has the cafe, etc.... Can't move it very easily into just any other space.

[RC14]

It would be a shame if we went to all this work to reconnect downtown and Nordstrom remained right in the middle of it. I would like to see Nordstrom moved and a skybridge from City Creek to the entertainment district/Salt Palace. It could make everything from the Delta Center to Regent Street feel like one continuous district.

[Comrade]

Now I'll say one thing about an existing building:

I do love the facade of Nordstrom and would be sad to see it go.

[Blah_Amazing]

Also, something that one of the Mayors mentioned related to the Olympics yesterday was how they don't like that Medals Plaza is just temporary and gets taken down once the Olympics are over.

Potentially hinting that they might want a more permeant structure/place? Like a amphitheater or something?

That would be cool to see downtown.

[Blah_Amazing]

I was thinking, what if the base of the West Quarter Phase II was partially incorporated into becoming an expansion to the Salt Palace instead of simply being a large parking garage under the proposed towers?

If a partial second floor was added as well as a skybridge connecting the two, it could be a way to make up for some of the lost square footage for the entertainment district.

It also could be a great way to get the Second Phase of the West Quarter back on track after it has seemingly stalled.

I think The Richie Group should start actively working with Salt Lake County to see if this would be possible.

[Nebula3lem123]

I am still of the opinion that demolishing Abravanel is a non-option. Many people group it with the Salt Palace during talks of reworks, but I think this is unnecessary. Abravanel was here before the Salt Palace, it has incredible acoustics, and is world renowned among musicians. Much like how many think that no new station could fully replace the Rio Grande Depot, I don't think a new concert hall could ever replace Abravanel.

Reworking the Salt Palace to be less of a barrier between City Creek and the Delta Center on the other hand, would be much easier and would be much more helpful to the city. As much as having a large continuous space is, taking up 3 blocks is ridiculous for such a short building in an area with such high demand. Cutting it down to 2 blocks and making the center 3-4 stories tall would provide almost as much continuous space while increasing room for other events and reducing the impact the Salt Palace has on the area.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Nebula3lem123

I am still of the opinion that demolishing Abravanel is a non-option. Many people group it with the Salt Palace during talks of reworks, but I think this is unnecessary. Abravanel was here before the Salt Palace, it has incredible acoustics, and is world renowned among musicians. Much like how many think that no new station could fully replace the Rio Grande Depot, I don't think a new concert hall could ever replace Abravanel.

Reworking the Salt Palace to be less of a barrier between City Creek and the Delta Center on the other hand, would be much easier and would be much more helpful to the city. As much as having a large continuous space is, taking up 3 blocks is ridiculous for such a short building in an area with such high demand. Cutting it down to 2 blocks and making the center 3-4 stories tall would provide almost as much continuous space while increasing room for other events and reducing the impact the Salt Palace has on the area.

How many musicians even come to Abravanel anymore?

Through the rest of the year, there's seven events and two are comedians (Seinfeld and Wanda Sykes).

More might be scheduled, of course, and obviously the Utah Symphony utilizes it ... but it doesn't seem like there's a lot scheduled for the remainder of the year.

Look: If it can be saved, I absolutely support saving it - even if it means renovating.

But I don't think it's a non-starter.

[billbillbillbill]

I spent a week in London last month and saw several shows on the West End. I think every theater I went to was over 100 years old and had been refreshed and reinvented from theater to movie houses and back to theater in it's history. I know their culture and history is to preserve these types of buildings and I wish we had more of that here.

Abravanel Hall is in a perfect location for this district, has history here, and just needs a remodel from time to time. It would be a huge mistake to bail just because it needs updates.

[Blah_Amazing]

So what exactly is wrong with Abravanel Hall then? The speaker made it sound like it could potentially cost tens to even hundreds of millions in order to save it.

I'm in the camp of save it if we can, especially if it is WAY cheaper.

That said, I would like to see a new concert hall built in the long run and I'd love to see something like the Walt Disney Concert Hall in Salt Lake. However, based on a quick google search it took $274 million (in early 2000s) and 16 years and to finish. Obviously not all concert halls take that long, but if we want unique architecture it can sometimes take a long time to get it right.

I mean, it might be reaching for the stars to get something like the Disney Concert Hall, but it would sure look cool:



If we did remove and replace Abravanel Hall, would the symphony just need to perform elsewhere in the city? What are the chances they could Eccles Theater or Capitol Theater? Or would they be put out of commission?

[Blah_Amazing]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

Well since the Church is on board with this whole district, including being ok with the liquor laws changing in this area to remove the required distance from alcohol establishments and community spaces, maybe they're seeing a potential benefit in doing something radical on that end of City Creek. They need to do something as it's struggling.

Would be amazing if they cut straight through Nordstrom to continue that promenade that winds through both blocks of City Creek and extend it across W Temple. It could wind just to the south of UMOCA and AH and then be the central promenade of the new entertainment district.

Personally, I don't see how we could get this cool interconnectivity between City Creek and this district without at least removing the modern art museum. I will say, museums are easier to replace, since structurally they are basically just a bunch of empty rooms that art gets installed in. This becomes more expensive the more unique the design, but much easier than building a new concert hall.

[RC14]

Would it be possible to update the facade of Abravanel hall to something more architecturally significant but keep the guts and the inside and the acoustics the same?

[Paniolo Man]

While all of this NHL stuff has been going on, the state seems to have shelved the Bear River Development.

A pretty big win for water and GSL.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by RC14

Would it be possible to update the facade of Abravanel hall to something more architecturally significant but keep the guts and the inside and the acoustics the same?

I would like this.

To be honest, the facade of Abravanel isn't anything spectacular. I don't think anyone would miss the actual exterior of the building. It's fairly unremarkable and looks like a typical auditorium you'd find on a college campus, maybe even community college, that was built during the modernist push of the 1970s.

[Paniolo Man]

218 W Broadway Apartments:



Project immediately south of Lotus Republic:

[i-215]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2024/05/...n-district-is/

This is getting ridiculous.

"I *might* move the Jazz out of downtown!" threatened the billionaire.

Did we stand up to the bully? No. We rewarded him with millions of dollars, two city blocks for free, and giving him preferential treatment over any other developer in the city (see article).

Call his bluff. Give him STEEP requirements (e.g., minimum number of affordable housing units, public ownership of facilities proportional to the TIF/grants given, etc.) If we're dumping a ton of public money into the Delta Center, the city/county/state should own a portion of the building. He needs downtown more than downtown needs him. We can smile. We can be cordial and collaborative. But that doesn't mean we have to let a bully walk all over us!

This entire experience is disgusting. It doesn't need to be.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by i-215

He needs downtown more than downtown needs him.

You got that backwards.

[wrendog]

#TeamRyanSmith

[nushiof]

#Teammakedowntownawesome!

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

You got that backwards.

Do I, though? I mean, Seattle didn't exactly die when the Supersonics left.

Sports teams bring in some nice spikes in customer traffic. But you know what generates constant customer traffic?

Residential

When people live in the city, they spend money every day — not just on game days.

Look at downtown Los Angeles: Sure, LA Live (the area around the arena) is great. But downtown LA is a ghost town despite it because there's inadequate residential development there.

Look at Brooklyn: Are you telling me that Brooklyn was a ghost town before 2012 when the Nets moved in from New Jersey? Brooklyn thrives as a healthy urban environment because of residential.

Look at Seattle: NO NBA team plays at Climate Pledge (Amazon) Arena. The area is doing fine because people actually live in Seattle.

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SLC is falling for the same sorry shtick that billionaires have used over and over again to extract wealth from the communities they claim to be helping. Smith Entertainment Group (SEG) wants to extract money from SLC, not invest in it. True investment means losing money. Larry H. Miller seemed to be okay with losing money on his ventures (e.g. the race track in Tooele). Smith wants to make money. I don't trust him.

But it's not bad enough that he suckered the legislature into handing him their checkbook. He wants to demolish a perfectly good convention center and symphony hall... when there are still EFFING SURFACE PARKING LOTS in the city.

No. No way. This is BS. Like 1960s-era "let's demolish half the city to fight blight"-level BS. And you guys are just letting this happen?

---

Here's what's going to happen: (and yes, I will quote this post in 3-4 years when it does)

• Smith is going to sucker the city into handing him carte blanche zoning power
• Smith is going to promise the world
• Smith is going to demolish the 2 blocks
• Tech will tumble. Smith will lose money
• Smith will abandon the project ("Sugar Hole" style) saying "changing market conditions, blah blah blah..."
• Smith abandons SLC, sells the team to St. Louis or something
• The LDS church bails out the project (Triad Center style)
• The LDS church now owns the public property we used to have a perfectly good convention center and symphony hall

I'm not "anti-entertainment district." We DO need to set CLEAR and demanding expectations now. We need to make sure increase public ownership of this project now; not just give handouts to a billionaire. And on the trajectory we're on right now, we're headed for a disaster for Salt Lake City. Remember, Ryan Smith doesn't live downtown. He's a suburb guy. If he were serious about downtown, he'd move Qualtrics into downtown SLC. But I don't hear any talk of that!

SLC has 99 problems: homelessness, affordability, sustainable economic activity, etc. Making Smith happy is not one of 'em!