Booze in Canada: Laws and Culture

[MonkeyRonin]

I absolutely agree that our liquor laws are absurd. Completely ineffective and needlessly bureaucratic, they're archaic and an insult to our intelligence. The AGCO's whole MO reads like a kid with Aspergers who has to have everything just so (and will throw a tantrum if they're not), with no semblance of logic.

However - as has been my position all along - as bad as they are, when actually put in to practice, they've never affected my quality of life to any notable degree. I've never had a problem having a drink in the park, at a festival, parade, etc; I live a 10-minute walk from a massive, gorgeous LCBO (while their monopoly sucks, the stores themselves are great); my fridge is always stocked with beer & wine, so the 10 pm closing time isn't an issue; the little fences around patios never particularly bothered me; and I'm usually doing other substances on a night out, so the 2 am last call is irrelevant. Ultimately, my experience with alcohol in Canada isn't that different from my experiences in Europe or the US - I go to the store, buy some booze, take it home or to the park. Now, for someone who owns a bar or nightclub or restaurant I can definitely see why there'd be a big difference, but for the average guy its negligible.

Would I - and most other Canadians - like to see liberalized alcohol laws? Absolutely. Would they have a profound impact on my life? Nope. Would they have any effect on the culture and lifestyle of our cities? Not much.

Originally Posted by The Gibbroni

Strange that we can visit other countries, reminisce about that "romantic evening we spent with a bottle of wine on the beach/in a park/on the street, watching the sun come up" yet return home and say "Oh no, that could could never work here! Think of the children!!"

I don't think very many people actually think that, aside from the MADD lobby. Its just that few feel strongly enough about it to protest the existing laws and have them changed (not surprising, considering the low level of political engagement even for much more serious concerns). And so, the Mad Mother's get their way.

Originally Posted by eternallyme

About the sale to minors, a recent study showed that convenience stores are far less likely to sell tobacco to minors illegally in Ontario than the LCBO is to sell alcohol. So there goes one argument...

I can definitely attest to that. I look like a kid but am rarely ever carded at the liquor store. Going into a bar on the other hand, I almost always need to show ID. It was common enough in high school to have (obviously underage) friends buy from the LCBO without even so much as a shoddy fake ID. Good for kids - not so good for the Mad Mother's anti-privatization, "think of the children" arguments.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

It's funny that you mention the playgrounds at bars in Europe. When I was in Prague we went to a beer garden that had a playground next to it, and everyone used the bushes right beside the playground as a bathroom. There was literally a puddle of urine on the path that the kids were running through.

Sometime you do have to think of the children.

I have a family house in Prague and spent over two months there just this fall. I have not once in my life seen what you described, I suppose what you are saying is that there was puddles of urine and the kids were running through it and splashing around in it??? I tell you right now your full of crap. Pissing on a tree or bush when you have to piss is accepted, never have a I seen anyone piss anywhere else nor have I ever seen a puddle of piss anywhere outside of center of Prague where you will find virtually no Czechs and only foreigners taking in the cheap drinks and being morons. The fact is most pubs have playgrounds, most people go out for a beer to meet friends or talk, its like going for a coffee and if you have kids they need to be able to play somewhere while you sit down for a drink.

Now if you said Czechs are corrupt, backstabbing, pessimistic, untruthful, negative people then I would not argue with you, and sure that saddens me. But what you described is complete bs and you should retract it or correct your self.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by cornholio

Pissing on a tree or bush when you have to piss is accepted

Technically you're not exactly invalidating his story.

Seriously? People just can't find a bathroom in Prague, to the point where it's cool to just piss on a nearby tree? Doesn't sound like going for coffee at all - I've never once heard of someone hitting up a Starbucks but then just not able to hold it and having to piss on a tree. Of course I've never seen a playground next to a Starbucks either, maybe it's a cultural thing.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Technically you're not exactly invalidating his story.

Seriously? People just can't find a bathroom in Prague, to the point where it's cool to just piss on a nearby tree? Doesn't sound like going for coffee at all - I've never once heard of someone hitting up a Starbucks but then just not able to hold it and having to piss on a tree. Of course I've never seen a playground next to a Starbucks either, maybe it's a cultural thing.

So why do you find something wrong with pissing on a tree? Is it because you were told its wrong for some odd reason? It soaks in to the surrounding ground, it is not unsanitary nor a health hazard, nor stinks. After all my 140lb dog pisses on every tree he sees here in beautiful Vancouver.

Obviously in the heart of a city there are no trees, the Czech republic does not comprise of just Prague. PLUS I said when you have to piss, that means there isnt a alternative, and payed toilets are only in the heart of the city while no business outside of MC Donalds will allow you to use their facilities if your not a customer, ever. So then your left with trains if you happen to be catching one where the piss just falls on the tracks anyways otherwise if you have to go you find a tree or bush, thats just life. But what that guy said is total bullshit, period. Anyways I have no time to argue, I know well how things work there, too well.

[suburbanite]

Well, since you called me out like that, I have no choice but to defend my claim.

It just so happens that there is google street view available in the location I;m referring to.





On the left is the bushes, with clearly defined paths from people walking behind to do their business. Kids were running from the playground through the bushes playing tag or something, and there was literally urine trailing from the bushes onto the path.

[The Gibbroni]

[QUOTE=MonkeyRonin;5728145]

Would they have any effect on the culture and lifestyle of our cities? Not much.

I disagree. If Québec were to suddenly adopt the same laws as the rest of the country (they are very similar from province to province) it would have a profound difference on culture, lifestyle and even urban design.

If the fenced-in patio rule were imposed, up to half of the terrasses in Montréal would immediately become illegal, and half of those would disappear completely (sidewalk edge, parking space etc.) as they would not be able to be enclosed. Streets like St-Denis, Prince-Arthur, St-Paul etc. would be particularly hard hit. Most of the small restos and bars in my area (Villeray/Petite-Italie) would lose their terrasses outright and that would devastate the character of the neighbourhoods.

If deps didn't sell beer and wine, half of them would close and many of the remaining ones would become chain stores. Deps are much beloved as they are very neighbourhood-centric and often serve an area of just a few square blocks. You know your "dep guy", he knows you and you meet your neighbours every time you go.. they're like little community centres. If you add the loss of convenience and spontaneity of being able to simply "pop down to the corner" you're really affecting the local lifestyle. Ditto goes for local supermarkets. The smaller ones survive in part due to beer and wine sales. Take away those sales and only the large ones would remain requiring people to walk that much farther whenever they want groceries.

If we were to start whacking festivals with "fence" restrictions, they would lose much of their ambiance and fun. Big festivals have sellers walking around with trays and sometimes shooter girls with holstered bottles. Imposing fenced areas or even just having stands would create lines and reduce fun. Lineups suck the fun out of anything. Smaller fests, the ones that wouldn't be able to afford the extra fencing and security, would cease to exist altogether. Neighbourhood street parties would be less popular and street or park parties that rely in part on alcohol sales to offset costs would disappear completely.

Taking away the legal ability to drink in parks would really alter the local lifestyle. Go to parks like Lafontaine, Jeanne-Mance, Laurier, Jean-Talon etc. on any sunny weekend and there are dozens of groups of friends and family gathered around huge spreads of food, wine and beer. Along the length of the Lachine Canal people lounge about chatting over a few drinks while DJ's set up and advertise BYOB parties. Any event in any park will always sell alcohol- why wouldn't they?- it's simply taken for granted. Parades- St-Patrick's in particular- always allow alcohol. Attempting to crack down in any way on the St-Patrick's parade would very quickly turn ugly and result in a major riot!

Canadian and Provincial Park restrictions would not be popular here. Alcohol bans and alcohol restricted to your site are unheard of. There is no mention of any alcohol policy on Parcs Québec website because.. there is no policy. Suddenly imposing one would not go over well.

Even if you're a complete non-drinker, alcohol policies can have a profound effect on your lifestyle and culture and even the built form of your city.

[Acajack]

Just wondering: did I dream or is there a law on the books that says you can't actually show people drinking alcohol on TV? I mean, you can show alcohol in bottles and glasses, and the bottle in someone's hand, but not actually drinking it?

I thought of this because if it exists, it is violated all the time. Just as an example the most popular talk show in Quebec Tout le monde en parle always has the hosts and guests openly drinking wine during the last half of the program.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just wondering: did I dream or is there a law on the books that says you can't actually show people drinking alcohol on TV? I mean, you can show alcohol in bottles and glasses, and the bottle in someone's hand, but not actually drinking it?

I thought of this because if it exists, it is violated all the time. Just as an example the most popular talk show in Quebec Tout le monde en parle always has the hosts and guests openly drinking wine during the last half of the program.

I don't know about tv but in commercials you aren't allowed to show them drinking it. Hence why most beer commercials consist of girls and a bunch of guys holding their beers but never taking a sip.

[patm]

That is correct, you can't show people drinking in commercials.

I do believe your allowed to show them drinking in tv shows and movies that are aired on regular TV because there is a rating associated with it.

Thats why you get the "Viewer Descretion is advised" warnings

[Calgarian]

So someone holding and promoting a beer is okay, but actually showing them drinking it is bad and will convince all the children to drink? that might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Gerrard]

I think the Parks system restricts bottles and cans outside of your camp site, not the actual consumption of alcohol offsite -which is miles better than the blanket restrictions on drinking in Parks which we used to have.

If you go off site or interior camping your liquor needs to be in some sort of transportable container (other than the one it originally came from). Which is fine since a lot of people are pigs and I'd rather not have nature spoiled by tripping over bottles and cans while hiking.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

So someone holding and promoting a beer is okay, but actually showing them drinking it is bad and will convince all the children to drink? that might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Yeah it's pretty stupid. Surprisingly though to some people the law wasn't made in Ontario!...

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

So someone holding and promoting a beer is okay, but actually showing them drinking it is bad and will convince all the children to drink? that might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

There's a rather large movement afoot to ban any image of anyone smoking in any visual medium (tv, films...) because supposedly this will encourage to smoke.

So it's not exactly an unheard of idea. Hell, we banned the display of tobacco in stores because supposedly just seeing a package would make kids want to smoke.

[Calgarian]

So common sense and rationality are becoming obsolete in our society then...

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Hell, we banned the display of tobacco in stores because supposedly just seeing a package would make kids want to smoke.

Is that Canada wide or just in Alberta? Fucking ridiculous regardless!

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Jay in Cowtown

Is that Canada wide or just in Alberta? Fucking ridiculous regardless!

It's more than just Alberta for sure, but I'm not sure if it's the entire country. I've been to at least 3 or 4 provinces that do this.

[Copes]

Both Nova Scotia and Newfoundland do it as well.

[Ramako]

Private alcohol sales about convenience not lower prices, says Tory Leader Tim Hudak

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...g-alcohol-sale

Hudak said the thrust of his proposal to put alcoholic beverages in corner stores, supermarkets or private specialty stores is to make it easier for Ontario consumers to buy a six-pack of beer or a bottle of wine.

He was reacting to a Star story showing that prices in private booze outlets in other provinces are higher on average than those in provinces like Ontario, where the government controls retail sales.

“I think our model is actually of more convenience for consumers,” he told reporters.

A day after announcing his plan to privatize alcohol sales, Hudak still could not provide details on what the future of the LCBO holds.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Copes

Both Nova Scotia and Newfoundland do it as well.

And BC.

[bulliver]

Originally Posted by Denscity

And BC.

And Saskatchewan, in fact I think they may have been the first...been doing it ~10 years there.