Great Canadian Suburban Skyline Thread!

[wg_flamip]

Toronto went through this weird period during the Metro era when elected officials from the suburban 416 and the old city were able to unite, for different purposes, around the suburban node idea. The conservative suburbs wanted to attract business and development away from the city (and Mel Lastman wanted his NYCC vanity projects), and the left-leaning city wanted to protect neighbourhoods from over-development. This lead to the suburban node model of city planning, which has been in many ways a failure.

The first big mistake, especially re: SCC, was where these nodes were planned out for. Instead of, say, at Kennedy/Eglinton, already served by GO and the subway, Scarborough planned its node around a mall and a highway served by the unreliable RT. Etobicoke's city centre, while arguably better served by transit, was planned near the messy Six Points interchange.

One of the biggest failures of the suburban nodes has been their inability to attract office development. Companies, it turns out, did want to locate out in the 'burbs - but in sprawling corporate campuses and business parks with plentiful parking, not in highrise clusters with all the problems of a downtown location (expensive parking, &c.) without the benefits (transit connections to the rest of the city/GTA, &c.).

We ended up wasted a whole lot of time and resources assuming these nodes would really take off. The Sheppard subway was built assuming NYCC and SCC would become huge employment hubs, while the planned DRL was abandoned. In the end, downtown took the lion's share of new development despite all this and we now have an overburdened infrastructure trying to cope.

That said, while the suburban nodes didn't live up to expectations, they're not to be completely written off. NYCC has been a success in other ways, namely in attracting a good deal of residential development. It's not impossible to live there without a car, but it's not really possible for most to walk to work either. I think Etobicoke's city centre will eventually take off too once Six Points is re-configured. The nearby Islington village has relatively good urban bones which can (and is) being built upon. I'm afraid SCC will suffer from some of that good ol' Scarborough stigma for a while yet though.

Personally, I'm watching to see what happens to the long-neglected former city of York as some of the new transit projects come on-line. There's a lot of potential out in Weston, for example, especially as creative types are priced out of the old city. Unfortunately, they tend to elect some of the worst politicians in the city and the legacy of being the poorest municipality in the province (IIRC) is proving difficult to shake. That said, if there's anywhere in Toronto where gentrification has the potential to cause serious American-style tensions, it's out in that little corner of the city.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by dleung

That's as much an understatement as a morbidly obese person told to lay off the KFC reacting with "Look, am I perfect like a fitness model? No, but..."

The rest of your post doesn't make a good sell either. Just because lower middle class people without cars are willing to cross 8 lanes of traffic to get to a windswept bus stop to access basic services doesn't mean it "works". These centres can rectify its failures and introduce a finer grain of planning, but it doesn't mean the current model hasn't already failed.

I've been a critic of places like Mississauga city centre and Scarborough... but their current failings do not mean that planners of both suburban nodes are not working toward a new and better model.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by dleung

The rest of your post doesn't make a good sell either. Just because lower middle class people without cars are willing to cross 8 lanes of traffic to get to a windswept bus stop to access basic services doesn't mean it "works". These centres can rectify its failures and introduce a finer grain of planning, but it doesn't mean the current model hasn't already failed.

I happen to live 5 minutes from Scarborough Centre, and you are stereotyping.
You do not need to cross 8 lanes of roadway to access services from the transit stop.

Secondly. Of course we can do better and Toronto is trying to plan a better Scarborough Centre. But having an automatic hatred because a place has a mall does not make sense either.

You may not like it. But especially in our climate, Toronto's suburban malls have done a great job of becoming centers of their community, and with the great transit connections, they do function at a much better level than say malls down in the USA. So just appreciate what we have done with our malls. They have become true community centers, it is better we come up with ways to make malls work, than hate on them. Because they are not going anywhere.

So hate on it all you want. But at the end of the day, Scarborough Centre, or as us locals call it "Town Centre" works pretty much as intended, as the centre of Scarborough. You do not need to a car to get there. And everything is within walking distance. Could it be designed better? Yes it could, and we are working on that.
But it is also not a disaster.

The only reason Scarborough Centre suffers, is due to how slow transit service is to rest of the city, and our far east location. Without fast transit, it is not competitive to locate an office there, given we are not a central location.


In Mississauga's case, have you been to the centre lately? I was just there a few weeks ago, and the public square was packed with skaters. They even shut down one of the streets on weekends, to create an even larger public plaza. Again, not perfect. But hardly as bad as it is made out to be.

[Klazu]

Burnaby from Vancouver.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I happen to live 5 minutes from Scarborough Centre, and you are stereotyping.
You do not need to cross 8 lanes of roadway to access services form the transit stop.

Secondly. Of course we can do better and Toronto is trying to plan a better Scarborough Centre. But having an automatic hatred because a place has a mall does not make sense either.

You may not like it. But especially in our climate, Toronto's suburban malls have done a great job of becoming centers of their community, and with the great transit connections, they do function at a much better level than say malls down in the USA. So just appreciate what we have done with our malls. They have become true community centers, it is better we come up with ways to make malls work, than hate on them. Because they are not going anywhere.

So hate on it all you want. But at the end of the day, Scarborough Centre, or as us locals call it "Town Centre" works pretty much as intended, as the centre of Scarborough. You do not need to a car to get there. And everything is within walking distance. Could it be designed better? Yes it could, and we are working on that.
But it is also not a disaster.

The only reason Scarborough Centre suffers, is due to how slow transit service is to rest of the city, and our far east location. Without fast transit, it is not competitive to locate an office there, given we are not a central location.


In Mississauga's case, have you been to the centre lately? I was just there a few weeks ago, and the public square was packed with skaters. They even shut down one of the streets on weekends, to create an even larger public plaza. Again, not perfect. But hardly as bad as it is made out to be.

I didn't say the centres don't "work", just that it's extremely utilitarian, making it merely a destination by necessity. Most of the roads around STC are 5-7 lanes. I love malls, I just hate the urban fabric around it. This "hater gonna hate" rhetoric shows you have a dog in this, so I'm not gonna bother.

[giallo]

Fantastic shot, Klazu.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by wg_flamip

Personally, I'm watching to see what happens to the long-neglected former city of York as some of the new transit projects come on-line. There's a lot of potential out in Weston, for example, especially as creative types are priced out of the old city. Unfortunately, they tend to elect some of the worst politicians in the city and the legacy of being the poorest municipality in the province (IIRC) is proving difficult to shake. That said, if there's anywhere in Toronto where gentrification has the potential to cause serious American-style tensions, it's out in that little corner of the city.

I've always been fond of York, especially the Vaughan Road area and then the tightly packed, bunaglow-strewn hills along Eglinton. Weston's cool too. I like the haphazard street grid, the mix of 70s tower slabs and prewar urbanity, the way it follows the Humber, and that it's one of the few remaining rough, working class urban neighbourhoods with no signs of changing. Eglinton West would probably be the smartest place to invest in real estate in Toronto right now though...once the subway goes in, expect to happen to that area what's been happening along Bathurst and in East York and central North York for the past decade plus (i.e. tear downs of older bungalows on million dollar lots).

[Klazu]

Local Brentwood skyline with Metrotown in the distance. On the left there will be over ten new 40-60 storey towers coming up in the next 10 years. In the middle there is a "mystery complex" with several more tall towers joining the skyline. There are hour towers under construction in the area even today.



Metrotown just completed few ot its new tallest towers. Several more are being dug with start rising very soon.

[Klazu]

More sweet Brentwood skyline. First of four Solo District towers under construction.

[MTLskyline]

The seldom seen skyline of Repentigny
Repentigny by -AX-, on Flickr

[LeTravailleur]

This is the first time I see that angle of Repentigny!
It's not very good looking (probably because most of these towers are ugly), but I always tought it would be interesting to look at it from the South Shore.
There are some other "good" riverside skylines in the Montreal metro (Longueuil, Brossard, Mtl-Nord and even some places in Laval). Am I missing one?
Not necessarily nice looking ones, but sometimes relatively consistent.

[Beedok]

Dow's Lake Skyline

[1overcosc]

^ That's not really "suburban".. Preston/Carling is in the prewar city.

[Klazu]

Here are some photos of Burnaby's tallest tower, Sovereign (156m) in Metrotown. This tower opened for residents a week ago. I really how sleek it is, being the first true skyscraper outside of the Downtown core.



Standing tall. Such a sleek form.




Tower of balconies


The podium hosts a four-star Westin Elements hotel.






From north








Together with the first Station Square tower.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ That's not really "suburban".. Preston/Carling is in the prewar city.

I've seen efforts to put Calgary's Beltline here, and Yonge and Eglinton seems to be accepted as a suburban skyline. Or Humber Bay. Both of those are about as pre-war as Dow's Lake no?

[Docere]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I've always been fond of York, especially the Vaughan Road area and then the tightly packed, bunaglow-strewn hills along Eglinton. Weston's cool too. I like the haphazard street grid, the mix of 70s tower slabs and prewar urbanity, the way it follows the Humber, and that it's one of the few remaining rough, working class urban neighbourhoods with no signs of changing. Eglinton West would probably be the smartest place to invest in real estate in Toronto right now though...once the subway goes in, expect to happen to that area what's been happening along Bathurst and in East York and central North York for the past decade plus (i.e. tear downs of older bungalows on million dollar lots).

Very true. It feels more urban than suburban though (it has a somewhat similar feel to a lot of Queens NY or North Bronx/Yonkers) and it's really a historical accident that York wasn't annexed to Toronto in the interwar years.

[Monolith]

Metrotown, Burnaby

2015_01 VANCOUVER To Vancouver Island by Plothar13, on Flickr Taken on December 29, 2014

[333609543]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Metrotown, Burnaby

2015_01 VANCOUVER To Vancouver Island by Plothar13, on Flickr Taken on December 29, 2014

The mountains in the background make this shot amazing.

[YoungRepublic]

Re: the former city of York

I've lived here all my life but I'm from just north of the Toronto border and I was young when amalgamation happened, so I don't know as much about the former city as I should. For instance, I had no idea Rogers had a streetcar route until 5 minutes ago lol

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_...g_ceremony.jpg

Having said that, it's pretty cool to hear people talk about York because in my experience most Torontonians don't know this place exists or ever existed. Out of all the former cities/borough, York seems to be the forgotten one and no one knows wtf I'm talking about when I say that I'm from here. It's usually, "you mean you're from North York"?

Originally Posted by wg_flamip

Personally, I'm watching to see what happens to the long-neglected former city of York as some of the new transit projects come on-line. There's a lot of potential out in Weston, for example, especially as creative types are priced out of the old city. Unfortunately, they tend to elect some of the worst politicians in the city and the legacy of being the poorest municipality in the province (IIRC) is proving difficult to shake. That said, if there's anywhere in Toronto where gentrification has the potential to cause serious American-style tensions, it's out in that little corner of the city.

I'm pretty sure most of York is still working class, with I think Humewood-Cedarvale and Old Mill being the exceptions. That's probably why Ford is/was so popular here. Although most people assume Ford Nation to be in either Scarborough or Etobicoke, York had (iirc) the highest percentage of residents voting for that asshole. Nunziata, one of the biggest idiots in council, was our former mayor before amalgamation so I suppose our Ford love-fest shouldn't be all that surprising. And I'm quite certain that it's the York side of ward 17 that keeps (narrowly) voting in Cesar Palacio, who was probably the biggest Ford ass kisser in council before shit really hit the fan.

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I've always been fond of York, especially the Vaughan Road area and then the tightly packed, bunaglow-strewn hills along Eglinton. Weston's cool too. I like the haphazard street grid, the mix of 70s tower slabs and prewar urbanity, the way it follows the Humber, and that it's one of the few remaining rough, working class urban neighbourhoods with no signs of changing. Eglinton West would probably be the smartest place to invest in real estate in Toronto right now though...once the subway goes in, expect to happen to that area what's been happening along Bathurst and in East York and central North York for the past decade plus (i.e. tear downs of older bungalows on million dollar lots).

Originally Posted by Docere

It feels more urban than suburban though (it has a somewhat similar feel to a lot of Queens NY or North Bronx/Yonkers) and it's really a historical accident that York wasn't annexed to Toronto in the interwar years.

It's definitely unlike most of Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough in terms of urbanity. It's much more urban but the city has (iirc) always been pretty poor and you can pretty much tell immediately when you're crossing the Toronto-York "borders". For instance, York used to save money and cut corner on a whole slew of things like putting (uglier) street lights on only one side of the road. Much of York is still like this today and it's pretty dark at night. When I have time, I might post some pics of the areas I'm most similar with.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Here are some photos of Burnaby's tallest tower, Sovereign (156m) in Metrotown.

And here are photos from the sub-penthouse on the 42nd floor. It was like being up in the sky, but unfortunately the suite itself turned out to be too small for us. Oh well, our visit still made for some nice photos of the sunny Metrotown!



Here we go! The tallest building in Burnaby. Notice that there is no monkey business with the floor numbering in Sovereign. Even floor 13 is there and only 4 is missing. Interesting how the condo elevators can stop at the hotel floors. They have a different lobby, but I am not sure if they use the same elevators.



The suite was facing southeast, but Burnaby Mountain was visible from the balcony. Mount Baker could not be seen in this hazy weather.


Deer and Burnaby lakes. Lougheed town center in the distance.


Next is Station Square complex. Imagine five towers going up here!


Metropolis, the largest shopping center in all B.C.




Burnaby's second tallest tower is Metroplace. Silver next to it.


Woops, Crystal Mall looks small from over 130 meters above.


Modello will be going up in this view. Central Park in the background and hazy Richmond in the distance.


Check out the size of these balconies! This is the standard size in Sovereign with some units having double the size! There are smaller suites than these balconies!!


Metrotown panorama. Tower by tower Metrotown is starting to look like a city.