Improving Alabama

[bystander1]

Originally Posted by philopdx

Recalling my experiences in Alabama now with a little more distance and clarity, I can't say that it stands out out in a particularly negative way more so than any other states in the former confederacy.

The same dynamics are at work all over the region; the racial contempt, the distrust of a paternalistic, secular federal government, the embrace of a folksy, anti-intellectual evangelical worldview and the skepticism shown toward new cultural mores.

Despite all the absurdities I grew up with, and the absurdities I continue to see and hear about from family and friends still living in the former confederacy, all the ranting and raving won't do any good. All my piss and vinegar is just blowing in the wind.

Keeping up with the news on this forum it does appear Alabama is marginally changing for the better, but I still maintain that it's due to the outside world pulling and yanking and wrestling the state and its people into the 21st century, inch by inch.

Taking my hometown of Montgomery for example; I think the recent downtown re-development is a shocking reversal of white flight that I never expected to see. The urban renewal trend has finally hit Alabama - twenty-five years behind the rest of the country, like clockwork. However, for every Dreamland, up pops another EastChase, siphoning people and money away from the core of the city.

Politically and economically, for every step forward like landing the Hyundai plant, there is a bizarre and puzzling step backward like using super troopers to close down a dog track or a parlor of slot machines. We can't have them Macon county folks freely sinning, now, can we? Sinning is only for the 43 other states that allow lotteries.

As my experiences of Alabama drift further into memory, I find my teeth-gnashing contempt being supplanted by a fuzzy bemusement.

The nasal drawls, the mop top haircuts with navy blazers and pleated khakis, the obese, boisterous black people in ill-fitting clothes shopping at the local Wal Mart, the Golden Corral Buffet, the unending strip of pawn and gold shops on the southern bypass, the swamps just south of town with moss swaying from tree branches, the skinny, blond country-club wives in sun dresses prancing out of Talbots, the gallons of glistening sweet tea, an endless sea of baseball caps and pastel polos, John Boy and Billy (shivers), the McMansions, Perrah Hoopah Joonya, brilliant sun barely breaking through the canopy of trees in old Cloverdale, Ninety mile-an-hour SUV's careening down 459, Henry at Sioux la terre singing Mustang Sally, churches, churches and MORE churches, the big, happy black guy that used to sell boiled peanuts on McGhee road for years and years, the cacophony of crickets at dusk, the smell of the wind when thunderstorms roll in and the light gets dim...

I think I remember those people and those places, but I'm not so sure any more. Were they ever really there?

ahhh. dude, how about opening the window and letting it air out a little...

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by philopdx

Recalling my experiences in Alabama now with a little more distance and clarity, I can't say that it stands out out in a particularly negative way more so than any other states in the former confederacy.

The same dynamics are at work all over the region; the racial contempt, the distrust of a paternalistic, secular federal government, the embrace of a folksy, anti-intellectual evangelical worldview and the skepticism shown toward new cultural mores.

Despite all the absurdities I grew up with, and the absurdities I continue to see and hear about from family and friends still living in the former confederacy, all the ranting and raving won't do any good. All my piss and vinegar is just blowing in the wind.

Keeping up with the news on this forum it does appear Alabama is marginally changing for the better, but I still maintain that it's due to the outside world pulling and yanking and wrestling the state and its people into the 21st century, inch by inch.

Taking my hometown of Montgomery for example; I think the recent downtown re-development is a shocking reversal of white flight that I never expected to see. The urban renewal trend has finally hit Alabama - twenty-five years behind the rest of the country, like clockwork. However, for every Dreamland, up pops another EastChase, siphoning people and money away from the core of the city.

Politically and economically, for every step forward like landing the Hyundai plant, there is a bizarre and puzzling step backward like using super troopers to close down a dog track or a parlor of slot machines. We can't have them Macon county folks freely sinning, now, can we? Sinning is only for the 43 other states that allow lotteries.

As my experiences of Alabama drift further into memory, I find my teeth-gnashing contempt being supplanted by a fuzzy bemusement.

The nasal drawls, the mop top haircuts with navy blazers and pleated khakis, the obese, boisterous black people in ill-fitting clothes shopping at the local Wal Mart, the Golden Corral Buffet, the unending strip of pawn and gold shops on the southern bypass, the swamps just south of town with moss swaying from tree branches, the skinny, blond country-club wives in sun dresses prancing out of Talbots, the gallons of glistening sweet tea, an endless sea of baseball caps and pastel polos, John Boy and Billy (shivers), the McMansions, Perrah Hoopah Joonya, brilliant sun barely breaking through the canopy of trees in old Cloverdale, Ninety mile-an-hour SUV's careening down 459, Henry at Sioux la terre singing Mustang Sally, churches, churches and MORE churches, the big, happy black guy that used to sell boiled peanuts on McGhee road for years and years, the cacophony of crickets at dusk, the smell of the wind when thunderstorms roll in and the light gets dim...

I think I remember those people and those places, but I'm not so sure any more. Were they ever really there?

Please, wherever it is that you call a place home, stay there. If you're going to constant bring down Alabama, I don't think you deserve to walk in the midst of anyone who is a citizen of our state.

Call our state ignorant all you want, but it is you, sir, who is being ignorant. I'm constantly told to open my mind, and think differently, but about what? I'm a musician, my homepage is a news website, I love to travel, I'm earning a degree in a field that usually goes against right wing ideology, and I have many friends that come from many diverse places. Tell me, what about me is so closed minded? These people that I'm sitting in the library with right now, are they really as terrible, ignorant, and unthoughtful as you think?

I don't know which Alabama you've seen, but whichever one it was, it's long gone and isn't coming back.

Frankly, and I don't know about you, but I enjoy Spanish Moss swaying from Live Oak branches, the smell of thunderstorms rolling in, and the sound of crickets at dusk. I honestly don't see how you can mention those wonderful things in the same ridiculously long run-on sentence as those Southern stereotypes.

If Alabama is as bad as you say it is, why do you insist on coming back to this section of the forum? You're only going to be let down. I'm sure the discussions about our state and how we've improved it and want to improve it are simply nauseating to you.

So, please leave.

[philopdx]

Originally Posted by tredici

Please, wherever it is that you call a place home, stay there. If you're going to constant bring down Alabama, I don't think you deserve to walk in the midst of anyone who is a citizen of our state.

Call our state ignorant all you want, but it is you, sir, who is being ignorant. I'm constantly told to open my mind, and think differently, but about what? I'm a musician, my homepage is a news website, I love to travel, I'm earning a degree in a field that usually goes against right wing ideology, and I have many friends that come from many diverse places. Tell me, what about me is so closed minded? These people that I'm sitting in the library with right now, are they really as terrible, ignorant, and unthoughtful as you think?

I don't know which Alabama you've seen, but whichever one it was, it's long gone and isn't coming back.

Frankly, and I don't know about you, but I enjoy Spanish Moss swaying from Live Oak branches, the smell of thunderstorms rolling in, and the sound of crickets at dusk. I honestly don't see how you can mention those wonderful things in the same ridiculously long run-on sentence as those Southern stereotypes.

If Alabama is as bad as you say it is, why do you insist on coming back to this section of the forum? You're only going to be let down. I'm sure the discussions about our state and how we've improved it and want to improve it are simply nauseating to you.

So, please leave.

I think you mis-read the meaning of my post. In fact, I was making a concerted effort to be less pugilistic in my observations and more wistful, for the sake of the of the posters here in particular.

There are positive developments to report about Montgomery, the state of Alabama and the deep south as a whole. But I maintain they must be contrasted with the nagging issues that continue to hobble the state's development.

I'm happy to see downtown Montgomery and Birmingham developing - it doesn't nauseate me, and I'm not let down. I'm thrilled about the Alley and I think the pedestrian bridge is an unusually aesthetic addition to the riverfront. In fact, I think it's long overdue!

I'm happy to see leadership change, as well. You are right, Emory Folmar and Fob James are long gone, and, God willing, they won't be coming back. But for every two steps forward, there is someone like Larry Langford, whose description as only one step back would be far too generous.

Concerning my run-on sentence; it was meant to be an approximation of a stream-of-consciousness memory, flitting from one image to the next with no regard to time or place. I too, enjoyed the severe weather, the Spanish moss, the lightning bugs at night, and sometimes I even enjoyed the people. ;-D

It was also meant to contrast the things I miss about the state with the cultural oddities and frustrations that lodged themselves in my memory.

Regardless, I see I've hit a nerve. I have no issues with you, tredici, or any of the other posters here. I see you are a valuable contributor and actually care about your surroundings - you and I are probably much more alike than you would imagine.

Nor do I believe that all people in the state are "ignorant" or "closed minded". I was born, raised and attended college there, so I clearly remember that there are plenty of brightly eccentric professors, authors, students and countless others that contribute to the creative economy.

Sadly, there aren't nearly enough of them to counter the "Obama is a closet Muslim who was born in Indonesia" rubbish that pours out of people's mouths, e-mails and facebook posts nearly every time I check in. Its dispiriting, to say the least.

And finally, in contrast to your directives - I do deserve to walk in your midst, I'll continue to post as I please and, most importantly, I won't leave.

It was my home too, I still have roots there, and I have a voice.

Deal with it.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

I appreciate your reply, and apologize for offending you. I just get particularly peeved when anyone comes close to ridiculing Alabama, unless it's something that I personally agree with (yea, it's somethin I need to work on).

[bystander1]

I understood your post philopdx. It seemed like you were in such a world of bliss near the end of your post that I just wondered what you were puffing on while you were writing...

[EXbubba]

Originally Posted by philopdx

I think you mis-read the meaning of my post. In fact, I was making a concerted effort to be less pugilistic in my observations and more wistful, for the sake of the of the posters here in particular.

There are positive developments to report about Montgomery, the state of Alabama and the deep south as a whole. But I maintain they must be contrasted with the nagging issues that continue to hobble the state's development.

I'm happy to see downtown Montgomery and Birmingham developing - it doesn't nauseate me, and I'm not let down. I'm thrilled about the Alley and I think the pedestrian bridge is an unusually aesthetic addition to the riverfront. In fact, I think it's long overdue!

I'm happy to see leadership change, as well. You are right, Emory Folmar and Fob James are long gone, and, God willing, they won't be coming back. But for every two steps forward, there is someone like Larry Langford, whose description as only one step back would be far too generous.

Concerning my run-on sentence; it was meant to be an approximation of a stream-of-consciousness memory, flitting from one image to the next with no regard to time or place. I too, enjoyed the severe weather, the Spanish moss, the lightning bugs at night, and sometimes I even enjoyed the people. ;-D

It was also meant to contrast the things I miss about the state with the cultural oddities and frustrations that lodged themselves in my memory.

Regardless, I see I've hit a nerve. I have no issues with you, tredici, or any of the other posters here. I see you are a valuable contributor and actually care about your surroundings - you and I are probably much more alike than you would imagine.

Nor do I believe that all people in the state are "ignorant" or "closed minded". I was born, raised and attended college there, so I clearly remember that there are plenty of brightly eccentric professors, authors, students and countless others that contribute to the creative economy.

Sadly, there aren't nearly enough of them to counter the "Obama is a closet Muslim who was born in Indonesia" rubbish that pours out of people's mouths, e-mails and facebook posts nearly every time I check in. Its dispiriting, to say the least.

And finally, in contrast to your directives - I do deserve to walk in your midst, I'll continue to post as I please and, most importantly, I won't leave.

It was my home too, I still have roots there, and I have a voice.

Deal with it.

Yassuh, Mr Philopdx, you sho' nuff hit it on the head... I love Alabama, but I have grown so tired of defending the undefendable. I grew up in the civil rights era in MGM and can't forget the contrast in lives there. I am so happy to the state progressing but they are so far behind the country in ways both good and bad (still somewhat civil down there). I guess I got worn out being embarrassed to admit my origins, and not seeing too much to encourage me that a new generation had yet to take over. My generation runs the state and for the most part seem as willfully ignorant as ever unless money is involved, then they see the light. Unfortunately, Alabamians must still say "thank god for Mississippi". Keep working on the bright spots and try to include more progress in the dark ones. You don't have to be too modern, just progressive, learning from the mistakes of all who went before.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Newsweek released their list of the nation's top public schools

JeffCo IB is once again ranked in the top five, at #2.

Birmingham area schools include:

Mountain Brook High at 376
Homewood at 549
Oak Mountain at 935
and Spain Park at 984.

Huntsville metro area schools include:

Bob Jones High at 808
Grissom High at 1,881

Mobile area:

Alabama School of Math and Science 1,579

Auburn high was also on the list, at 354

[TimCity2000]

^ i hate those newsweek rankings (even though my former high school is on them).

have you checked out the methodology? they basically take the total number of AP/IB tests taken in a high school divided by the number of graduating seniors there. it doesn't even take into account the score of those tests.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

U.S. News and World Report has released their new college rankings and there is some very good news for Alabama!

Here are the top ranked schools in AL, the name of the school then the rank, nationally:

1) University of Alabama 79th (34th among just public)
2) Auburn University 85th (38th among just public)
3) Samford University 104th
4) University of Alabama at Birmingham 151st (79th among just public)

UA's ranking climbed 17 spots. Auburn's climbed 3 spots.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Alabama's jobless rate has dropped now to 9.7% in July. In June, it was at 10.3%.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

So, what kinda changes to you expect or are hoping to see with the populations that are coming out in February? The city and county populations that is. Since the state's population was underestimated by about 35,000 people, do you expect anywhere in the state to have some lopsided growth? What do you think the populations will be?

Personally, here are my hopes:

Metro Areas

- Huntsville and Decatur metro areas will merge and form Huntsville-Decatur MSA. Population around 565,000-570,000. Madison, Morgan, Limestone, Lawrence Counties

- Mobile MSA will remain one county, for now. Population at about 420,000 to 425,000.

- Birmingham-Hoover MSA will remain in its current form, but I expect population to be around 1.14 to 1.15 Million.

Those are the big stories, here are my rankings.

1) Birmingham-Hoover 1,140,000
2) Huntsville-Decatur 565,000
3) Mobile 420,000
4) Montgomery 370,000
5) Tuscaloosa 217,000
6) Florence-Muscle Shoals 145,000
7) Dothan 145,000
8) Auburn-Opelika 140,000
9) Gadsden 105,000

As far as cities go:

1) Birmingham 231,000
- NOTE: I think Birmingham might be one place where we see those underestimates from the estimates show. My estimate is a very conservative one, but the actual number could be anywhere from 230,000 to 240,000.
2) Montgomery 203,000
3) Mobile 195,000
- NOTE: Another moment where the underestimates could show. I think we could easily see the population rise over 200,000.
4) Huntsville 185,000
- NOTE: Again, here's another place where we might see some of those underestimates show. 185,000 is pretty reasonable I think, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see it at 190,000.
5) Tuscaloosa 97,000
- NOTE: Could it reach 100,000?
6) Hoover 74,000
7) Dothan 70,000
8) Auburn 58,000
9) Decatur 57,000
10) Madison 41,000

Combined Statistical Areas?

1) Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman 1,220,000-1,230,000
2) Mobile-Daphne-Fairhope 597,000-605,00
3) Huntsville-Decatur (there may not be one if and when the two metros merge)
4) Montgomery-Alexander City 420,000
5) Dothan-Enterprise-Ozark 243,000

Now, this is all assuming that the future CSAs remain in their present form. BUT, there's always a possibility that some metros or micros will be added to the current CSAs. Here are the rankings if some SAs are added.

1) Birmingham-Tuscaloosa-Cullman 1,515,000
+ Tuscaloosa MSA + Talladega MicroSA
2) Huntsville-Decatur-Albertville 715,000
+ Albertville MicroSA + Scottsboro MicroSA
3) Mobile-Daphne-Fairhope 600,000
4)Montgomery-Selma-Alexander City 465,000
+ Selma MicroSA
5)Dothan-Enterprise-Ozark 243,000

[SouthSky]

I think based on patterns I've seen in the census commuting data that Baldwin is probably (if current rates continue it will certainly be over the necessary 25%) going to be added back to the Mobile metro (where it belongs). Mobile has been underestimated; the Katrina effect coupled with annexation will certainly counter the numbers currently available. The fact Baldwin does not contribute to Mobile's numbers still astound me to this day.

Another thing to consider however is how the definitions are amended in the next couple of years. Also, if there becomes a "contiguous urban area" definition you could see the Northern Gulf Coast "megalopolis" become reality. The population of that (just a ~50 mile radius of Mobile) would be well into the millions (~1.44 million). This is not a certainty in reality, but would give a closer meaning as to how the Mobile region works.

[Port_of_Bama]

I agree to the fact that the 50 mile radius of Mobile should be considerd a megalopolis in the near future.And it`s amazing how that 50 mile radius has a population well over a million.

I also think with TK coming on line now I believe Washington couty may be added to the MSA or CSA.And to be frankly honest the 3 neighboring/bordering Mississippi counties should atleast be considerd in the Mobile CSA.West Mobile is full of Mississippi tags.

My prediction is that Washington and Baldwin will be part of the CSA and MSA.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by SouthSky

I think based on patterns I've seen in the census commuting data that Baldwin is probably (if current rates continue it will certainly be over the necessary 25%) going to be added back to the Mobile metro (where it belongs). Mobile has been underestimated; the Katrina effect coupled with annexation will certainly counter the numbers currently available. The fact Baldwin does not contribute to Mobile's numbers still astound me to this day.

Another thing to consider however is how the definitions are amended in the next couple of years. Also, if there becomes a "contiguous urban area" definition you could see the Northern Gulf Coast "megalopolis" become reality. The population of that (just a ~50 mile radius of Mobile) would be well into the millions (~1.44 million). This is not a certainty in reality, but would give a closer meaning as to how the Mobile region works.

The whole region is quite complicated indeed. It'll be interesting to see how they change things, cause there are so many things that I can name right off the bat that are questionable.

1) The relationship between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa. I really feel like Tuscaloosa MSA should be included in the Birmingham CSA, but I guess the whole weight of Hale and Greene counties kinda keeps Tuscaloosa on its own.

2) Gadsden and Anniston MSAs, maybe the should get a CSA.

3) Infinite other questions.

I feel like such a geek...

EDIT: I do think that they might come up with some definition of a mass of metros, along the lines of what you were mentioning with the contiguous urban areas. In this case I think you could see one or two scenarios:

1) Localized in-state megalopolis: smaller groups of metros that are smaller individual components of grand scale megalopolises. Examples:
A) Birmingham CSA +Tuscaloosa MSA + Decatur-Huntsville CSA + Gadsden MSA + Anniston MSA + the various micros surrounding the area
B) Montgomery CSA + Troy + Selma + etc... you get the point

2) Of course, it's probably more likely that we would see these mass areas anchored by the larger cities like Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond, Washington, etc... for an example, you can pull up many of the megalopolis articles on Wikipedia.

Who knows.

[Port_of_Bama]

I was looking at the population density of Alabama`s major 4 on qiuckfact/cesnus.gov and I noticed that Mobile is the smallest in square miles with the most density...I guess that is why Mobile always felt more urban but is equal in population with both Huntsville and Montgomery.And feel just as urban as Birmingham(city limits only).

Birmingham 149 sq mil with 1,619.7 ppsm

Huntsville 174 sq mil with 909 ppsm

Mobile 117 sq mil with 1,687.2 ppsm

Montgomery 155 sq mil with 1,219.3 ppsm.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by Port_of_Bama

I was looking at the population density of Alabama`s major 4 on qiuckfact/cesnus.gov and I noticed that Mobile is the smallest in square miles with the most density...I guess that is why Mobile always felt more urban but is equal in population with both Huntsville and Montgomery.And feel just as urban as Birmingham(city limits only).

Birmingham 149 sq mil with 1,619.7 ppsm

Huntsville 174 sq mil with 909 ppsm

Mobile 117 sq mil with 1,687.2 ppsm

Montgomery 155 sq mil with 1,219.3 ppsm.

Huntsville is over 200 sq miles now, and the density figure is thrown off by a lot of open land to the north and west of the city that has hardly any development. There's also all that mountanous terrain to the east that's part of the city but undevelopable.

[Port_of_Bama]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

Huntsville is over 200 sq miles now, and the density figure is thrown off by a lot of open land to the north and west of the city that has hardly any development. There's also all that mountanous terrain to the east that's part of the city but undevelopable.

Really ? Well the Huntsville ppsq is much smaller than maybe 800 now ?

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Population in Alabama's Largest Counties Trending Upward

From the Birmingham Biz Journal. Well, they like reposted it from their associates (or whatever they are) in Buffalo.

The numbers are interesting to look at, but their estimates have had a history of clashing with the Census Bureau's. Guess which one I believe the most...

Either way, it says that Shelby County topped 200,000 (probably the most notable thing). JeffCo is expected to top 670,000. Mobile continues to grow at a good clip, toping 415,000. Madison sitting at 338,000.

Also, they're pegging Huntsville at 184,000, which seems RATHER conservative to me..

[ttownfeen]

Conversely, their calculations show Tuscaloosa at nearly 97,000. The accompanying text seems to indicate that the data is basically an extrapolation of trends, which makes sense since the University had seen a boom in enrollment. But that's already been scaled back. Thus I wouldn't too much much weight on these estimates.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

According to the Alabama Development Office, Alabama's exports grew by 25.5%, compared to a nationwide increase of 20%. Exports now total $15.5 Billion.