The perfect size for your city & metro area ?

[FrAnKs]

Everything is in the title.

Tell us the actual numbers and make a comparison with your ideal size.


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I'm more a guy of Midsized metro areas (Thats why I moved here), so I'm not going to add alot more to Quebec city.

City : (530 000 actual ) -> (700 000 ideal)

Metro area (800 000 actual ) -> ( Between 900 000 and 1M ideal )
Though I would be proud if we can reach the very important 1M level !

Your turn !

[SignalHillHiker]

I'd love to see us where Quebec City is today. Without expanding geographically at all.

[FrAnKs]

So basically, St-John's is wayyy to small for you at the moment, but you manage with it while the city has some incredible assets such as unique culture and accent, natural settings and awesome architecture

[Chadillaccc]

I think if Calgary can grow healthily (rather than explosive like it has been for the past ten years) to a municipal population of 1.6 million, I think that will be a great size for it. The healthy growth (2% per year or so) will mean that we can catch up with infrastructure to match our population, rather than our freeway system, roads, and bus that are basically set up for a city of 750 000 right now. It will also mean more density coming up in established areas rather than so much of our growth (about 66% currently) being dedicated to suburban development. This does not include any possible future amalgamation of Calgary with Airdrie or Chestermere.

A metropolitan area of 2 million at that time would be nice as well. Airdrie at about 100 000, Chestermere at about 50 000, Cochrane at about 40 000, and by that time Okotoks would be included and probably be around 40 - 50 000 as well, and the remainder in the outlying towns and district municipalities.

The skyline with a good 8 towers over 200 meters by that time would be pretty badass, up from our current 3 + 2 UC, and a much higher density of towers in the Beltline which is already under way.

If Calgary reached 1.6 million within our current borders(which is easily possible), our population density would be around 2000/km2, pretty healthy for a western core city.

[SignalHillHiker]

Oh, absolutely. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for all that I get from living here - but I'd actually prefer a city many times larger.

In the Quebec City-Ottawa size range, life isn't really any different - it's just more. So it doesn't take long to get to know the city, especially the areas with street-front density near the core where I'd limit myself. And then once you know it all, some of the joy is gone, unless the city is yours.

When you get up to LRT/subway-sized cities, life becomes a bit different and there's much more - for example, there's often several distinct cores. It's satisfying for a longer period of time, and by the time you get to know it all, it's changed. Now that, especially, I don't want for us... but it probably is one of the more enjoyable ways I'd like to live.

I could definitely do Dublin for similarity. It's European/North American and pretty/hideous in the same ways we are. St. John's with that population would be awesome. (525,000)

I could do Edinburgh, too - despite the climate (which is WAY worse than ours - except in winter). Not a fan of the lack of colour, but it's gorgeous in its own way and has that same Quebec City heritage feeling. So us with that population would be grand. (495,000)

I wouldn't want us to be London's size. (8.3 million) But if I had to leave here, a city that size, that dense, that age, with a foggy, indoor culture, and all that... would probably be best for me.

[FrAnKs]

^^ Hey Signal, at least St-John's Skyline punch over its actual size. I must say at least two times. It's a good start and will only continue in the future

[MonctonRad]

My ideal size for Moncton would be 225,000-250,000 (currently nearing 150,000).

NB deserves at least one city of about a quarter million people. To my mind, a city of this size is probably self sustaining, with a stable, diversified economic base and should have most of the amenities that an urban population needs in order to feel fulfilled.

Moncton is getting there now (universities, cultural institutions, good shopping, recreational facilities etc), but we are still small enough that some of these amenities seem a little precarious. I think at 250,000 souls we should be able to maintain what we have easily.

[FrAnKs]

Thank you MonctonRad.

I got a question about languages.

I heard that the city is very attractive for Francophones. Is that metro area slowly falling on something more bilingual ? While I think Moncton is popular with Francophones, why not anglophones aswell ? And if so, how all that folk react to a more bilingual city ?

[Architype]

Vancouver is the perfect size, it's a perfect city the way it is; just needs some minor tweaking. The suburbs are not as perfect however.

[le calmar]

Ideally the Maritimes would have one city of 3 M (the equivalent of Vancouver in the Atlantic region) and maybe another one of a million. Halifax should be the metropolis of 3M.

But can also a city be too big? I wonder if Montreal with half the population it has today would not be more friendly/laid back than it is today. Laval would be rural, Saint-Laurent would still be a distinct core with its old center, the old towns along the Des Prairies river such as Saint-Michel would still exist instead of being torn-down to leave place for the Henri-Bourrassa blvd. They would maybe be little touristic and recreative hubs similar to what Pointe-Claire is today with old heritage buildings in the center. Or maybe even 2 million is too big for this to happen.

[Razor]

I think city hits a good sweet spot when it hits a certain size and has all the amenities.

After that a lot of services become duplications of what it already has, unless a city gets to that next level like a Montreal or Toronto...For example, a city like Ottawa has that one Ikea store..Just not two or three..I think Ottawa is currently at a good size right now where it's big enough to still have those serendipitous type moments such as discovering a new favourite restaurant without the "same ole", has a variety of career opportunities, can warrant some big city infrastructure like a light rail and small subway system which is actually under construction, yet small enough that it doesn't have those traffic and commuting headaches..I think a sweet spot for Ottawa, and it's not too far off, would be at that 1.2 million size for the city proper and 1.8 for it's metro..Nothing more..After that, you may as well move to a large urban centre if that's your thing..I personally like the smaller to mid-sized metro range where Ottawa is currently sitting and will be for a long while yet.

[le calmar]

The thing you won't find in a city the size of Ottawa however is the stores selling very specific stuff. The larger the city, the more specific/exotic the stores can get because the larger the population = the more people with very specific interests you will find. In cities like Montreal and Toronto their larger numbers warrant the existence of such stores.

It can be the same with restaurants to a lesser extent. I doubt you will find Tibetan restaurants or Russian buffet in Ottawa. (correct me if I am wrong)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by FrAnKs

Thank you MonctonRad.

I got a question about languages.

I heard that the city is very attractive for Francophones. Is that metro area slowly falling on something more bilingual ? While I think Moncton is popular with Francophones, why not anglophones aswell ? And if so, how all that folk react to a more bilingual city ?

Moncton is about 65% anglophone and 35% francophone. Curiously, the francophone population tends to have a larger institutional base than the anglophone population, especially because of the Universite de Moncton. Moncton is considered the Capitale de l'Acadie. Most of the anglophone equivalents in NB are in Fredericton (the actual capital), or Saint John.

Despite this, the default language in Moncton is still English, and Moncton is a prosperous commercial centre with lots of job opportunities for people from both linguistic groups.

I would envisage a Moncton with 250,000 people would be composed of 150,000 anglophones and 100,000 francophones. A population base of this size should mean that neither linguistic group should feel threatened, and that both communities should be able to be served by their own institutions. For example, Moncton now has both francophone and anglophone tertiary hospitals. At 150,000 people, the need for separate language based health care institutions is iffy. At 250,000 people, I think a better case can be made for keeping the status quo.

[MonkeyRonin]

Twice our current population would nicely fill things out. So 14 million in the GTHA sounds about right. It'll probably even happen in my lifetime!

Going the other (and purely theoretical) way, I wouldn't mind getting rid of all the suburbs and keeping the centre-most area of about 1.5 million people so long as we can keep everything that's already in there. In reality it wouldn't actually work that way though. That and we can't just ship off 5 million people and turn all that area into farms.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by le calmar

The thing you won't find in a city the size of Ottawa however is the stores selling very specific stuff. The larger the city, the more specific/exotic the stores can get because the larger the population = the more people with very specific interests you will find. In cities like Montreal and Toronto their larger numbers warrant the existence of such stores.

It can be the same with restaurants to a lesser extent. I doubt you will find Tibetan restaurants or Russian buffet in Ottawa. (correct me if I am wrong)

Nope you are correct..I was looking through my own goggles..I'm pretty run of the mill though..I don't have some exotic hobby where I'm looking for a specific type store for example.Having said that, I think there is some sort of Russian/Eastern European restaurant here..I find myself discovering new fave places all the time, but ya it seems to be in the form of mom and pop traditional, Steak houses,Italian, Asian or Middle Eastern/Greek..Nothing similar to my New York experience where we eat out at a Peruvian restaurant near our hotel..To Ottawa's benefit however, there's that little injection of French Canadian on the other side of the river..It's great because we don't cross over too often, but when we do hit a little restaurant on the "other side", it has been top notch eats so far..We once got some traditional French Canadian catering which was kind of cool..My ribs were stuck together from the ragout and tourtiere..One thing I appreciate about larger Metros though are their niche districts..Like recording studios or theatres..It would be kewl to walk through an area with musicians milling about or a street full of theatres ..These little districts aren't planned though..They just happen I think...An aquarium or major Zoo is something else that I would like to see here.

[logan5]

For the City of Vancouver I'd like to see all single detached neighbourhoods upzoned to at least row-house, with some higher densities along arterial streets. That would more than double CoV's population to around 1.3 million. That kind of density could support 3 more rapid transit lines along Hastings, arbutus, and Victoria Dr. (via Main/Kingsway). Walk-able vibrant streets no matter where you are in the city.

[TownGuy]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Twice our current population would nicely fill things out. So 14 million in the GTHA sounds about right. It'll probably even happen in my lifetime!

Going the other (and purely theoretical) way, I wouldn't mind getting rid of all the suburbs and keeping the centre-most area of about 1.5 million people so long as we can keep everything that's already in there. In reality it wouldn't actually work that way though. That and we can't just ship off 5 million people and turn all that area into farms.

I would agree for the GTA. Toronto's thing is being Canada's big metropolis. All of the downsides of being a big city have long since passed. Might as well push the "big" thing to the limit.

For Cobourg I would say business as usual. Slow and steady growth which may become difficult as the GTA continues to encroach. 30,000 would perhaps be optimal sometime down the road.

[BretttheRiderFan]

I would love to see Edmonton with a metro population of about 2 million, with that growth concentrated in the city itself without further suburban sprawl.

[lake of the nations]

Here is a figure I made a few days ago. Note that milliers = thousands, année = year, RMR = CMA and that the Institut de la Statistique du Québec's 2036 forecasts are included (for CMAs).

As you can see, in the last 50 years, the smallest agglomeration (Sherbrooke) became the biggest, while Saguenay is on its way to become smaller than Trois-Rivières.



It's hard to me to imagine a "perfect size" for Sherbrooke (or for any city) since I hope it will keep growing as long as possible and in a sustainable way (added density in downtown Sherbrooke and the surrounding areas + intelligent completion of the existing suburbs). Thus we may reach 300,000 before the end of the century and position ourselves as a thriving urban center.

As for Saguenay, I find the fact that it wil likely shrink quite sad. It would be really cool to see additional highrises in Chicoutimi, but it seems unlikely that anything else other than senior's residences will be built in the upcoming decades.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Architype

Vancouver is the perfect size, it's a perfect city the way it is; just needs some minor tweaking. The suburbs are not as perfect however.

I wouldn't really want Vancouver to double in size because it's already pretty unaffordable and a lot of the natural environment and farmland in the Lower Mainland, which is fairly unique in Canada, has been replaced with ugly suburbs. On the other hand good development in places like Vancouver and Burnaby could be a good thing if it resulted in better transit and a more vibrant city. A lot of inner-city areas in Vancouver are much nicer today than they used to be and that probably wouldn't have happened without population growth.

For Halifax I'd go with a a fairly large number because Atlantic Canada doesn't have any major cities. I think it would make a big difference for there to be one city there with, say, 2 million people. It would get lots of attention nationally, it would be a unique major city in terms of culture and lifestyle, and people from the region who wanted to live in a bigger city wouldn't have to leave. I think a bit of this is already happening as the city grows, even if it's smaller than cities in other regions, but the effect would be much more noticeable if Halifax were several times larger than it is.