Speculation: if you could redraw Canada's internal (and perhaps, external) borders...

[MolsonExport]

Speculation: if you could redraw Canada's internal (and perhaps, external) borders...what could you imagine? What would be ideal, or potentially more so than the current arrangement?

In terms of internal borders: would it be a good thing for Ontario to be carved up, given its overwhelming domination of English-speaking Canada? Would Canada be better served with two or more majority French-speaking provinces and/or bilingual provinces (this could mean Quebec being carved up, or Northern NB and Eastern Quebec being a province, or Northern Ontario being a bilingual province, or what have you)? Would you amalgamate PEI into NB or NS? What about Labrador? Would you merge Manitoba and Saskatchewan, or perhaps create a province that consists of Northern Saskatchewan and Alberta (with Edmonton, and maybe Saskatoon) and another with Southern Saskatchewan and Alberta (with Calgary and Regina)? Would Vancouver Island be a separate province? A national capital region that is separate, politically, from Ontario (or Quebec)? What about the territories?

In terms of external borders, what could have been realistic, alternative universe frontiers? Northern Maine? Vermont? Alaska Panhandle?

have fun and try to keep it civil!

[MonctonRad]

Oooh - I have some ideas. I'll try to come up with at least one possibility tonight.

[MolsonExport]

Some maps to get the ball rollin' (note: I am not advocating tearing down the current borders).

historical:


wikipedia

evolution

wikipedia

[MonkeyRonin]

Split BC and Vancouver Island
Split Northern and Southern Ontario
Make Toronto its own province
Make Montreal its own province
Make Northern Quebec its own territory (Ungava)
Make Labrador its own territory

[MolsonExport]

found on the web

narcity

[manny_santos]

I've thought about this a few times.

Internally, I've long been in favour of modifications to Ontario, but not one that separates Toronto or the GTA from the rest of the province. Rather, I think Northwestern Ontario should be part of Manitoba, and I would also support a separate province encompassing Ottawa-Gatineau.

Vancouver Island being a separate province is an interesting idea too, though I'm neither in favour nor opposed to it.

Externally, I think Point Roberts, WA and Angle Inlet, MN should be part of Canada, with fair consideration to the United States in return. And I think the boundary between Quebec and Vermont could be cleaned up. But at this point I wouldn't otherwise touch our international boundaries.

[MolsonExport]

steve-lovelace.com

[MonctonRad]

Bernie Saunders would be pleased.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

steve-lovelace.com

I'm sure New Brunswick would be called Irving if the Irving family could make it happen.

[SignalHillHiker]

The Irving province in that company map already exists.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Make Toronto its own province
Make Montreal its own province

Great idea for a thread!

We hear all the time that Toronto and Montreal could or should be their own provinces, but is this really typical in federations with sub-national entities?

It seems to me that in the majority of places city only or even metro only entities are fairly rare, and the biggest cities generally have at least some type of hinterland territory attached to them.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'm opposed to redrawing provincial and territorial borders because it presupposes Canada's permanence, but beyond that dealbreaker for me, I'm all for it.

Within my own province, I'd make Nunatsiavut a full territory (it's currently a "country" within the province, with its own President and government, but signs most government roles over to the province and is, of course, subject to Canadian federal jurisdiction).

Southern Labrador I'm not sure what to do with. You have federal Innu reserves - and then the rest, who have described themselves as Southern Inuit or Metis. Their claims of Indigenous ancestry are vehemently opposed by both the Innu and Nunatsiavut, who see them just as white settlers. But I guess making it a territory including the federal Innu reserves is no worse off than they are now. And the island its own province of Newfoundland.

The Maritimes I'd probably combine into a single province but with significantly devolved powers to Fredericton, Charlottetown, and Halifax.

Everywhere else I don't know enough to say what this would look like, but I'd support border changes that unify Indigenous peoples and grant them greater autonomy. The Ottawa region I'd make its own federal capital jurisdiction, not a part of what's left of Ontario.

[zoomer]

Living on Vancouver Island I'm against it becoming a separate province. We need more connection to reality not less. Otherwise we'll become Utopia, or more likely a failed state. I can see the rest of BC kicking us out first and establishing a new provincial capital on the mainland.

Otherwise I say we follow geographical features and trade the Peace country in the North East corner and take all of the Rocky mountains, leaving Alberta flat but with more oil and natural gas.

[casper]

At one point in time Oregon Country included British Columbia, Washington State, Oregon and most if Idaho.

For some ill founded reason there was this concept of a 49th parallel that was proposed without any consultation with anyone on the west coast. It was sill to pay attention to such stillness. The people of Cascadia should have ignored the easterners. Despite being silly the territory was divided. I think it is time to welcome Washington and Oregon back into the fold. Washington State and Oregon have more in common with BC than the rest of the US.

Yes Vancouver Island should be separate from a separate province within Cascadia. The same for the Haida islands.

[JHikka]

Newfoundland
Labrador
Nova Scotia
Prince Edward Island
New Brunswick
Nunavik
Quebec
National Capital
Ontario
Toronto
Northern Ontario
Manitoba
Saskatchewan
Alberta
British Columbia
Vancouver Island
Yukon
Northwest Territories
Nunavut



Honourary mentions for Island of Montreal and Athabaska (northern AB, SK, & MB).

[someone123]

One issue with making Vancouver Island a province is that currently Victoria is the capital for around 4.6 million people in the rest of the province. If Vancouver Island split off the hinterland there would be about 1/10 the size. The scale of provincial capital type economic activity in Victoria would be smaller.

Canada got somewhat screwed with borders around BC, with the Lower Mainland being split up artificially and a big part of the coast being given to the US. I wonder if northern BC would be a bit more developed overall if it included the Alaska panhandle. There is an inland highway connection for Prince Rupert but nothing farther north that connects to the Pacific. Of course economically this probably doesn't register much in the overall context of the province.

[acottawa]

Merge the three Maritime provinces
Join the Inuit parts of Quebec and Labrador to Nunavut
Merge NWT and Yukon
Create a National Capital Territory
Move the Manitoba border east

[LittleBoy]

I like the idea of Northern AB, SK, and MB becoming a single province/territory, maybe even including Northern BC. The reality is that a lot of northern communities end up lacking sufficient investment/infrastructure, and something needs to be done so that these areas are adequately represented. On the flip side, one can’t ignore the fact that this northern province would be very low in population, population density, and would really struggle with poverty.

I think Canada struggles outside of Ontario/Quebec largely due to overall low population density to support infrastructure. Saskatchewan’s total land area is approx. 592,000 sq km and total population is approx. 1,100,000. Saskatoon’s urban area is 125 sq km, and it’s urban population is approx 245,000. Regina’s area is approx 180 sq km (PCR) and its population is 215,000 (PCR). Using these 2016 numbers, Regina and Saskatoon’s urban area represent a combined roughly 0.05% of the land area, but 42% of the population of the province.

Part of me wonders what Saskatoon and Regina would look like if they weren’t so heavily subsidizing the rest of the province. I’d have to imagine that the above numbers hold true for Manitoba and to a lesser extent, Alberta as well.

[jigglysquishy]

I think the first priority would be to split Ontario. Preferably by creating a national capital region and creating Northern Ontario province.

I don't see any reason to amalgamate anything in Atlantic Canada. Maybe convert Labrador into a territory.

If we open up external borders, fixing port Roberts and the northwest angle are easy choices.

Greedy me wants to fix the BC/Alaska coast and take Maine.

[itom 987]

If you look on Google Maps you will find that the entire waters including islands in Hudson and James Bay are part of Nunavut. I find it very strange.