Stockton, CA

[Leo the Dog]

Thatdarnsacramentan: Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. Makes a lot of sense.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by Thundertubs

Stockton is a city of 300,000 on the San Joaquin River in California's Central Valley, roughly 60 miles east of San Francisco Bay. The 1940 population was about 55,000 (to give an idea of the city's pre-war footprint).

Stockton was once one of California's largest and most important cities due to its geographic location between critical inland waterways and the Sierra. It had 10,066 people by 1870 (10.7% of whom were Chinese immigrants), when Los Angeles had only 5,728 people and the capital Sacramento had 16,283. Stockton was a major road hub, railroad terminus, and port through which people throughout the world passed on their way to the Sierra gold and silver rushes. Eventually, though, it lost its importance as Sacramento became the primary land transportation hub (Pony Express and First Intercontinental Railroad termini) and main inland port. After the gold and silver rushes faded it just didn't have much in terms of competitive advantages, but it did continue to grow as a stand-alone city around some of its old assets such as one of the state's first colleges. Stockton sprouted large post-war suburban subdivisions, in large part due to proximity to the Bay Area and Sacramento metropolitan areas, but the decline of its urban core accelerated after WWII and has never recovered.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Stockton looks like one of those zombie West Virginia cities.

yeah, except looks-wise throw in a bit of zombie texas and florida too.

i'm kinda surprized by this because we don't imagine anything like it in california state. where are the 300k people? just outside of downtown? suburbany sprawl??

[brankrom]

I lived for a time as a teen in Sacto and always liked Stockton. Excellent photo set. Stockton could really work as a VC hot bed its only an hour from Silicon Valley and the rents are a whole lot cheaper. Only downside is... it's Stockton.

[edmontonoilers89]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

I never thought I'd see a Stockton thread on here, let alone such a comprehensive, solid set. Good job.





I'll take a stab at this since I'm a born and raised Valley kid.

You know how there's sort of a general aspiration among kids to go to the big city? You know, kids all over the Midwest, as they grow up, dream of going to Chicago, bright lights, big city type stuff? It's the same with the Valley, except perhaps stronger. It's not something you really hear talked about openly, but there's this mindset, growing up all over the Valley (to a lesser extent in Sacramento and to far greater extents once you get to the Stocktons and Modestos and Escalons of the Valley) that you do whatever it takes to get the hell out. My own cousins, born and raised in deep ag country, the moment they could get out, they got the hell out to LA and never really looked back except for family emergencies.

In a state like California that's romanticized and publicized so heavily around the world as paradise, as a dream, growing up it sure doesn't feel that way when you're not on the coast. The Valley's practically a second tier of California, so close yet so far away. For the most part, the aspiration is either for SoCal or the Bay Area (and to some extent, Sacramento for those who want the city life without the level of problems those respective regions have). Even I remember growing up, after my first visit to San Francisco when I was 4 and seeing all the shiny cars and skyscrapers, thinking that I wanted to live there (of course, now you couldn't pay me to live in the Bay Area). Sacramento is the exception to the rule, though, because everyone I know that's gone away for school or moved for work, they/we all want to come home at some point, and these are people living in Chicago/New York/Miami/etc. Back to Stockton, you've got a city bombed out like this because, for the most part, the only people really left are the ones that couldn't get out. You see horrible gang issues, drug trafficking, all kinds of issues because the smart kids, the hard workers, the proud dreamers, all came from the dusty, overlooked part of Paradise looking out toward the mountains in the west and knowing the "real" California was just beyond. These are the future small business owners and city council members and doctors, and they just feel it growing up that they need to get out while they can.

Those other cities? The kid from outside Des Moines dreaming of Chicago? Chicago's a whole other state, maybe five, six hours away. All of us growing up in the Valley, we look at any freeway sign, they all point to two places: San Francisco and LA, and you realize pretty quick that San Francisco isn't five hours away; it's just an hour over those mountains on the horizon.

Very insightful commentary. I always imagined that to be the case in California, but you summed it up nicely. Thanks.

[202_Cyclist]

Great photos of an unfortunate city. It is interesting that an hour away from some of the most expensive housing in the United States there is a city where nearly every building (and some of them are beautiful buildings) downtown is vacant. I agree with the other comments on this thread about the potential of high-speed rail to make these Central Valley cities like Fresno and Stockton more vibrant. If it was a short 30 min train ride to San Jose, it could revitalize downtown Stockton.

I went to grad school in Sacramento about a decade ago and, although I never stopped in Stockton, Stockton always looked a bit forlorn driving through it. I also recall even before the housing bust of the Central Valley and Delta-area towns, Stockton had many issues to deal with, including high crime rates and drug abuse. Although I only lived in Sacramento for about a year and a half, just as a previous commenter mentioned the appeal of the Bay Area and Southern California for young people in the Valley, Sacramento seemed like a whole different universe from Stockton.

More broadly for the Central Valley, I recall reading a column a while back that argued it was a huge mistake to put the newest UC campus in Merced and create more sprawl, rather than locating it in Fresno and reinvigorating a deteriorating urban core.

Finally, Stockton's 2012 municipal bankruptcy certainly didn't help this city: http://www.wsj.com/articles/stockton...day-1424815104 .

[fflint]

Stockton's downtown is unusually forlorn for a West Coast city, to be sure, but it's only fair to reiterate these photos were taken in the evening hours of Easter Sunday so there were truly no people or cars around and the existing businesses were shuttered. Also, photos of the revitalized areas like the waterfront and Stockton Hotel, the theater and plaza, or the increasingly busy government center are generally absent.

I can say I have experienced Thundertubs' threads of cities I know well--Sacramento and San Jose--as more focused on decay and abandonment and less focused on vibrancy. He's a good photographer, and like any artist he makes editorial judgments and thematic choices. I'm not criticizing that by any means, but rather intend to point out these threads are not comprehensive.

And, yes, almost all Stocktonians live in suburban areas. The downtown population is negligible, and those there are tend to be very poor (e.g. living in single-room occupancy hotels).

[Pistola916]

It's interesting, I grew up in Sacramento at a time when it was the butt of jokes and described by natives and outsiders as a "cowtown." Granted Sac didn't suffer from the urban decay, drug problems and violent crimes like Stockton. Now Sacramento has really come to age and is often considered generally as a nice place to live. Folks from all areas of the Valley are moving to the Sacramento area to attend school or to make a living.

Having traveled to Stockton, Fresno, and Bakersfield recently, Sacramento feels so cosmopolitan. It is truly unfortunate what Stockton has become. You feel for those Central Valley towns.

[sterlippo1]

Originally Posted by tech12

uhh...except SF isn't 90 miles from Stockton. Yeah, the bay is about 60 miles away, but SF is about 70 miles by car (or 60 by air). Unless the bay suddenly became 30 miles wide when I wasn't looking. A 90 mile trip west from Stockton would put you in the pacific ocean, not in SF.

then you should correct mapquest. i believe it says that the driving distance between the two cities is 88 miles. You have to go west then north, not straight west which if you did then you are correct, you would be pretty cold in the pacific ocean. Thanks for your response though

[tech12]

Originally Posted by sterlippo1

then you should correct mapquest. i believe it says that the driving distance between the two cities is 88 miles. You have to go west then north, not straight west which if you did then you are correct, you would be pretty cold in the pacific ocean. Thanks for your response though

I got 82 miles checking map quest, but that's from city center to city center. From edge to edge its closer to 70 miles. Not much of a difference, but I guess my point is that Stockton doesn't feel very far from SF.

[stepper77]

Admittedly, I haven't posted on this forum in years as life, in particular work, has taken me in many directions. I decided to check and see if I saw any familiar names and here come across thundertubs and two threads in my own backyard. It's especially exciting after having just moved back to Sacramento from the Bay Area.

This is truly a great thread from an urban decay perspective, but, in all fairness this does not entirely represent Stockton. This isn't even the entirety of downtown, more the "backside". Don't get me wrong, Stockton leaves much to be desired and has faltered in the potential its proximity to the Bay Area lends. This doesn't show any of downtown along the waterfront, or the neighborhoods around University of the Pacific which are quite lovely. I've taken a few pictures in those neighborhoods but I have not processed them.

Having said that, I did a thread in 2007 of Stockton that gives a slightly different perspective here . And even with that, the last picture in the thread isn't even accurate as the middle left building has been torn down and the new San Joaquin library built or county office I can't remember in it's place.

In any event, nice thread!

[Comrade]

Decided to take a look at street view on Google (from March, 2015) and I think photos can be deceiving - especially when it's on Easter Sunday morning when it's likely going to be dead anyway. I say look at Google street view and you'll see Stockton doesn't look THAT bad.

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4

Example 5

Example 6

Example 7

So, while I'm sure there are some areas where it looks straight out of New Jersey - I think, on the whole, it's got a pretty nice downtown (from street view, anyway).

[BigKidD]

Great photos of an overlooked city. Even when I lived in the Bay Area, I never stopped in Stockton. You never know, but revitalization may just be around the corner.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

I never thought I'd see a Stockton thread on here, let alone such a comprehensive, solid set. Good job.





I'll take a stab at this since I'm a born and raised Valley kid.

You know how there's sort of a general aspiration among kids to go to the big city? You know, kids all over the Midwest, as they grow up, dream of going to Chicago, bright lights, big city type stuff? It's the same with the Valley, except perhaps stronger. It's not something you really hear talked about openly, but there's this mindset, growing up all over the Valley (to a lesser extent in Sacramento and to far greater extents once you get to the Stocktons and Modestos and Escalons of the Valley) that you do whatever it takes to get the hell out. My own cousins, born and raised in deep ag country, the moment they could get out, they got the hell out to LA and never really looked back except for family emergencies.

In a state like California that's romanticized and publicized so heavily around the world as paradise, as a dream, growing up it sure doesn't feel that way when you're not on the coast. The Valley's practically a second tier of California, so close yet so far away. For the most part, the aspiration is either for SoCal or the Bay Area (and to some extent, Sacramento for those who want the city life without the level of problems those respective regions have). Even I remember growing up, after my first visit to San Francisco when I was 4 and seeing all the shiny cars and skyscrapers, thinking that I wanted to live there (of course, now you couldn't pay me to live in the Bay Area). Sacramento is the exception to the rule, though, because everyone I know that's gone away for school or moved for work, they/we all want to come home at some point, and these are people living in Chicago/New York/Miami/etc. Back to Stockton, you've got a city bombed out like this because, for the most part, the only people really left are the ones that couldn't get out. You see horrible gang issues, drug trafficking, all kinds of issues because the smart kids, the hard workers, the proud dreamers, all came from the dusty, overlooked part of Paradise looking out toward the mountains in the west and knowing the "real" California was just beyond. These are the future small business owners and city council members and doctors, and they just feel it growing up that they need to get out while they can.

Those other cities? The kid from outside Des Moines dreaming of Chicago? Chicago's a whole other state, maybe five, six hours away. All of us growing up in the Valley, we look at any freeway sign, they all point to two places: San Francisco and LA, and you realize pretty quick that San Francisco isn't five hours away; it's just an hour over those mountains on the horizon.

Good analysis and writeup. It sounds very similar to the experience of people from Rockford, IL.

[peanut gallery]

Thundertubs - I love your work and am attracted to the same type of cityscape you seem to be. I realize this is probably the most forlorn part of Stockton, but I thoroughly enjoyed these photos.

Originally Posted by tech12

And for the record, Stockton has been considered a part of the Bay Area CSA since 2013. Though culturally, people mostly consider it a separate thing and not part of the Bay Area.

That's for sure. No way I consider Stockton part of the Bay Area (heck, Tracy doesn't even qualify to me). I wish they would just correctly combine the metropolitan area into one MSA so we could forget about CSA. If it includes Stockton, it isn't much better than dividing the area into two MSAs.

Originally Posted by mello

Has anyone been to downtown Bakersfield lately I have heard that it isn't doing too badly.

I was there several months ago. Downtown looked OK to me: not off the hook with activity but not at death's door either. I think it's bolstered to a certain extent with a lot of medical facilities just to the north of downtown and some other amenities to the south: arena, convention center, Bakersfield High (which is as important to the city as a college might be in some places), etc.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

I think it's bolstered to a certain extent with a lot of medical facilities just to the north of downtown and some other amenities to the south: arena, convention center, Bakersfield High (which is as important to the city as a college might be in some places), etc.

Downtown also has San Joaquin County's offices, courts, and all the small businesses that rely on government workers. At the north end of downtown there's a growing satellite California State University campus, and farther out, the University of the Pacific campus which both generate a lot of activity for the city as well.