Where the snowbirds go?

[Docere]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Cleveland had an NHL team for a couple years, which merged with the Minnesota North Stars.

I think it's more than just Canadians living in American cities. New York and Chicago had NHL teams in the Original Six as well, and Philadelphia has been one of the most successful NHL markets, where hockey is not embedded at the grassroots level like in Massachusetts and Minnesota, from the start of the team.

OK, I need to brush up on my history of hockey. Sports is not my area of expertise!

I don't think "Canadians" is the only factor - obviously it has long had a following among Americans in much of the the Northeast and Midwest as well.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Philadelphia concentrates around the Tampa Bay area (even giving it the name "Tampadelphia", usually when the Eagles or Flyers play in town)

Really? Perhaps, but everyone I know from Philly goes to the Atlantic Coast (from Palm Beach to North Miami). Maybe it's a Jewish thing.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Docere

Come to think of it, I've wondered why hockey is popular in Boston and Detroit but Cleveland despite being a very big city never had an NHL team. Maybe the difference was the presence of Canadian immigrants a century ago (Cleveland never really attracted Canadians).

Originally Posted by Docere

I don't think "Canadians" is the only factor - obviously it has long had a following among Americans in much of the the Northeast and Midwest as well.

Cleveland had pro hockey teams, just like many other cities. The NHL has just been the main league since the 1960s.

Yeah, hockey has always been very popular in the northern US (professional and college in the northeast and Great Lakes), with pro hockey starting long before the Original Six (which only goes back to the 1940s)... people always seem to portray the "original" six as the "beginning" of hockey or something

Pro hockey was organized in Pittsburgh with the Western Pennsylvania Hockey League back in the 1890s. There were numerous amateur and pro leagues that included cities and towns throughout the US and Canada from the early decades of the 20th century on. The NHL is basically just that one league that they all consolidated into in the late 1960s (similar to the NFL).

[Bailey]

I guess Texas doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Snow Birds UNLESS you have roots there or really want to retire there.

Texas has very high property taxes and ZERO state income tax so if you're retiring and are drastically reducing your income..why move to a state that has incredibly high property taxes? Especially on a fixed income your state tax bill will be based on the appraised value of your house and there could be steep increases from year to year.

I can't speak for all of the states but it seems as if you would want to pick a state, to retire in, that has more reasonable property taxes so you can better manage that factor in retirement.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Cleveland had pro hockey teams, just like many other cities. The NHL has just been the main league since the 1960s.

Yeah, hockey has always been very popular in the northern US (professional and college in the northeast and Great Lakes), with pro hockey starting long before the Original Six (which only goes back to the 1940s)... people always seem to portray the "original" six as the "beginning" of hockey or something

Pro hockey was organized in Pittsburgh with the Western Pennsylvania Hockey League back in the 1890s. There were numerous amateur and pro leagues that included cities and towns throughout the US and Canada from the early decades of the 20th century on. The NHL is basically just that one league that they all consolidated into in the late 1960s (similar to the NFL).

Plus Pittsburgh was never much of a magnet for Canadians either.

[Docere]

I can't say I've ever met a Texas snowbird.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Docere

Plus Pittsburgh was never much of a magnet for Canadians either.

Right, I doubt it. I think Erie is probably as far south as most Canadians get in Pennsylvania.


But lots of Canadian hockey players (including many of the best) came to Pittsburgh back in the early 1900s to play for the pro teams here... it was the first hockey league to openly hire hockey players for pay. Once pro Canadian leagues were formed and artificial rinks were built there a little bit later, many of the best Canadian players returned home. We're talking over a hundred years ago now, but it definitely sowed the seeds for the popularity of hockey here in Pittsburgh.

[bnk]

While many say Phoenix is a western suburb of Chicagoland.

Most family and friends in my parts go to SW Florida from Sarasota to Naples and Marco Island.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by McBane

Really? Perhaps, but everyone I know from Philly goes to the Atlantic Coast (from Palm Beach to North Miami). Maybe it's a Jewish thing.

That's news to me. Everyone I know personally from this area has moved to the Tampa area. And most vacation there, especially in March for Spring Training.

[xzmattzx]

Originally Posted by Bailey

I guess Texas doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Snow Birds UNLESS you have roots there or really want to retire there.

Texas has very high property taxes and ZERO state income tax so if you're retiring and are drastically reducing your income..why move to a state that has incredibly high property taxes? Especially on a fixed income your state tax bill will be based on the appraised value of your house and there could be steep increases from year to year.

I can't speak for all of the states but it seems as if you would want to pick a state, to retire in, that has more reasonable property taxes so you can better manage that factor in retirement.

It certainly makes sense, but Florida also has no state income tax, and they have to make up that revenue somewhere.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Bailey

I guess Texas doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Snow Birds UNLESS you have roots there or really want to retire there.

Texas has very high property taxes and ZERO state income tax so if you're retiring and are drastically reducing your income..why move to a state that has incredibly high property taxes? Especially on a fixed income your state tax bill will be based on the appraised value of your house and there could be steep increases from year to year.

I can't speak for all of the states but it seems as if you would want to pick a state, to retire in, that has more reasonable property taxes so you can better manage that factor in retirement.

Yeah, property taxes are a huge issue, but the snowbirds keep coming anyway, as do new permanent residents.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Docere

I can't say I've ever met a Texas snowbird.

Have you been to the Valley in the winter? That's where they are. A lot of them.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by McBane

Really? Perhaps, but everyone I know from Philly goes to the Atlantic Coast (from Palm Beach to North Miami). Maybe it's a Jewish thing.

I always thought Northeast Corridor folks go to the Atlantic coast.

Having just spent the week in Miami (mostly downtown, Coral Gables and Aventura), it seems every single non-Hispanic white person is either Jewish or Italian and from NYC or somewhere nearby. If the last name isn't Hispanic, it's Israel, Schwartz or Marino.

You hear about as many New York accents as in Brooklyn, at least among non-Hispanic whites. It's kinda crazy. Everyone is speaking Carribean Spanish, Haitian Creole or New Yorkese.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

Have you been to the Valley in the winter? That's where they are. A lot of them.

No, but maybe they're coming from Kansas or something. It doesn't seem to be a big snowbird destination in Canada or anywhere in the US Northeast or Great Lakes regions.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Docere

No, but maybe they're coming from Kansas or something. It doesn't seem to be a big snowbird destination in Canada or anywhere in the US Northeast or Great Lakes regions.

There's a lot online on this. They tend to come from Canada and U.S. Midwest (especially upper Midwest). There are tens of thousands of them, and they're a big contributor to the Valley economy.

[Chef]

In Minnesota retirees go to Naples, FL if they have money, Arizona if they don't, and the Pacific Northwest if they were Beatniks. There are also a significant number who are moving to Duluth or the northwoods part of the state.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

There's a lot online on this. They tend to come from Canada and U.S. Midwest (especially upper Midwest). There are tens of thousands of them, and they're a big contributor to the Valley economy.

I have never heard of anyone from Wisconsin or Chicago going to Texas as a snowbird. Seems really odd. The Valley is not a nice place. What is the draw?

[cannedairspray]

Originally Posted by JManc

"Halfbacks". People who moved to Florida..hated it for whatever reason but didn't want to move back up north so ended up in the Carolinas. Last time I was in NC (a couple of years ago), there were more NY plates than NC plates. I felt like I was back home. I'm sure there are more Bills and Giants fans there than Panthers fans.

This is ten years old, but when I lived in North Carolina I noticed that, too. I thought it had something to do with banks, but a quick scan doesn't say anything about that.

https://www.buffalo.edu/content/dam/...sonEconomy.pdf

[SpongeG]

I think Most snowbirds from BC go to Arizona, Florida is just too far, people seem to prefer the dry heat.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

I have never heard of anyone from Wisconsin or Chicago going to Texas as a snowbird. Seems really odd. The Valley is not a nice place. What is the draw?

The coast is nice in the Valley, especially Padre Island National Seashore. Very attractive to snowbirds. Rockport attracts snowbirds (at least until Hurricane Harvey), and there are lots of snowbird communities that are quite attractive, with palm trees all over. Birding and fishing are a big deal down there. However, a lot of the Valley is poverty stricken, and those areas aren't nice. They're sad, and are swept under the rug by our GOP legislature and executive branch.

I can't help if if you and the other person can't believe ithat snowbirds from the Midwest and Canada are in the Valley. Denial is not unusual in this forum. So let's just move on...