VIA rail seemed weird when I used it

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by casper

I believe the cars they use on service between Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto are European rail cars. They were originally built for some night-time service between London and Paris that was cancelled before it ever went into operation. Via rail ended up getting the rail cars at a discount.

The rail cars in the west and the Canadian are mostly old, they keep them in a good state of repair so they are fine but you do fell like your going back to the 1960s/1970s.

VIA uses the European built cars on the overnight 'Ocean' between Montreal and Halifax. There is also one set of these cars in service between Quebec City-Montreal-Ottawa.

The rest of the equipment used in the Quebec City-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor-Sarnia Corridor is Canadian built Bombardier LRC cars and equipment obtained from US sources.

The classic Stainless-Steel & Dome Cars used on the 'Canadian' between Toronto and Vancouver were mostly built for the Canadian Pacific Railway in the '50s. VIA keeps these cars in top condition and a number are currently being rebuilt with new interiors and to meet accessibility codes.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I agree the complicated boarding process is silly. Not sure if there is a rational reason for it. If there is I would think it is the platform widths and the steep stairs. In Europe where passengers have full access to the platforms and board themselves the platforms are quite wide and the platforms are level with the trains. I suspect the pre-flight briefings are a government requirement.

Now that I think back, the platforms were kind of narrow and low, and it would have been unsafe to have an entire train's worth of people milling about back there. There were no benches or hot dog stands or anything, it was very much a piece of infrastructure/machinery.

Which must mean that we have always boarded trains in the airplane-style way, as something like Union Station has probably always been the way it currently is.

So again: how did we come up with this? As noted, it's not ideal because trains hold a lot of people so restricting them to boarding through a single door makes things very crowded and time-consuming.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Now that I think back, the platforms were kind of narrow and low, and it would have been unsafe to have an entire train's worth of people milling about back there. There were no benches or hot dog stands or anything, it was very much a piece of infrastructure/machinery.

Which must mean that we have always boarded trains in the airplane-style way, as something like Union Station has probably always been the way it currently is.

So again: how did we come up with this? As noted, it's not ideal because trains hold a lot of people so restricting them to boarding through a single door makes things very crowded and time-consuming.

Just a guess, but I wonder if railway companies found it cheaper to have additional staff to assist with boarding than to acquire more land for wider platforms.

Via only does this in large cities. If you get on a train in a smaller city you wait on the platform and walk directly to the train.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

In July I took the train from Toronto to Montreal. It was a bit depressing and my Swedish companion laughed at it. It had old-style carbon copy credit card machines, dated decor, and it went very slowly. The Copenhagen-Stockholm line was probably like this in 1985.

THAT SAID

Canada isn't Northern Europe, train travel is a niche thing, and funding VIA is a political hot potato for a lot of reasons. You need to factor these things in. It was still a good way to get to Montreal.

HOWEVER

What's with the boarding process? Ordinarily, the train pulls into the station and passengers board their car through one of its two doors. Passengers wait on the platform and stand in the area where their car is likely to arrive. This means that hundeds of people can board at once, and it doesn't take a long time because those, say, 200 people are using 20 doors strung along 10 cars.

This is a picture of the station in Hamburg, and you can see there is space to board all up and down the trains:


When the ride begins a guy comes down the aisle and checks your ticket.

In Toronto and Montreal, though, they did this thing where it was like a plane. You waited at a gate in the station and then they boarded you through a single door, checking your ticket at said door.

Once through the door you got onto the platform, found your car, and got in.

Is this just a strange Canadian thing? I have never used trains in Asia or anything, but in Europe they don't do it this way. When I lived in Canada I didn't notice it because I wasn't used to taking trains.

It doesn't work very well and it doesn't play to the strengths of trains or train travel.

In China you board by car, the same as in Europe. They check your ticket at the entry gate to the platform (either manually or with an automatic ticket gate) and then you go downstairs to the platform to board the train, waiting along the platform at the designated location for your car. On long haul journeys they also come through the train to check tickets once the train is underway.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Now that I think back, the platforms were kind of narrow and low, and it would have been unsafe to have an entire train's worth of people milling about back there. There were no benches or hot dog stands or anything, it was very much a piece of infrastructure/machinery.

Which must mean that we have always boarded trains in the airplane-style way, as something like Union Station has probably always been the way it currently is.

So again: how did we come up with this? As noted, it's not ideal because trains hold a lot of people so restricting them to boarding through a single door makes things very crowded and time-consuming.

At union the GO trains don’t board that way though. People run up to the platform as soon as it’s announced - it’s kind of crazy and prob more European. So via kinda stands out

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Anyone used to European train travel is going to find Canadian train travel backwards. There’s too much geography and not enough people to ever make intercity really succeed now that cars and planes are available.

In most of the country, sure, it's not really viable. But the Quebec City-Windsor corridor has about 20 million people in an 1100 km stretch. Its population density is comparable to the lower half of European counties, and is a highly trafficked route that includes our two largest cities, two provincial capitals, and our national capital. There's no excuse for it to have such poor train service.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

In most of the country, sure, it's not really viable. But the Quebec City-Windsor corridor has about 20 million people in an 1100 km stretch. Its population density is comparable to the lower half of European counties, and is a highly trafficked route that includes our two largest cities, two provincial capitals, and our national capital. There's no excuse for it to have such poor train service.

I think it is less the average density of the region that matters than the density of the cities along the route. Montreal and Toronto have about 1/6 the density of Paris for example.

[vid]

How do the carbon credit card things even work? Do you mail them in? How does someone go about checking to see if the card is even valid when they're used?? I've never bothered to look this up so I'm asking the question in this discussion about Via Rail, since the last time it served my city, this is how credit cards were processed.

Last time Via Rail operated in Thunder Bay, the Internet was younger than 8K TVs are right now and people born during the Spanish-American war were still alive.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

In most of the country, sure, it's not really viable. But the Quebec City-Windsor corridor has about 20 million people in an 1100 km stretch. Its population density is comparable to the lower half of European counties, and is a highly trafficked route that includes our two largest cities, two provincial capitals, and our national capital. There's no excuse for it to have such poor train service.

This is true. I suspect this area is comparable in population density to Sjælland+Skåne and it is much higher in absolute population (about 3.5 million in combined population for Sjælland/Skåne... this is hardly Rhine-Ruhr). DSB and SJ easily account for 20-30x VIA's traffic numbers in this area.

Again, Canada isn't Europe and the habits and arguably the station-centric development patterns aren't there. It is a matter of custom as much as anything. But we probably could do it. If someone gave us a DSB/SJ style network overnight, we would probably use it to the levels required.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by vid

How do the carbon credit card things even work? Do you mail them in? How does someone go about checking to see if the card is even valid when they're used?? I've never bothered to look this up so I'm asking the question in this discussion about Via Rail, since the last time it served my city, this is how credit cards were processed.

Last time Via Rail operated in Thunder Bay, the Internet was younger than 8K TVs are right now and people born during the Spanish-American war were still alive.

There's no check. Our attendant told us that charges on maxed or otherwise defunct cards come out of his pay.

Which totally fucking sucks for him. It's basically an IOU that is often used by intoxicated people. Really un-ideal in terms of a setup.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

There's no check. Our attendant told us that charges on maxed or otherwise defunct cards come out of his pay.

Which totally fucking sucks for him. It's basically an IOU that is often used by intoxicated people. Really un-ideal in terms of a setup.

That's not even legal?

The old carbon are used because there's no LTE on train sections, including part of the Corridor.

There's also airplane style boarding in Europe, London to Paris, Brugge to Paris are a few examples where boarding was Canada style (if that's a thing). Plus secondary stations like Kingston, Ste-Foy or Dorval, you board up directly on the platform aligned to you car.

The revamped business class cars are way better than TGV or Thalys trains, plus alcohol allocations are a lot better with VIA; it's like the attendants want you to get shit-faced drunk.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

There's no check. Our attendant told us that charges on maxed or otherwise defunct cards come out of his pay.

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

That's not even legal?

VIA does NOT hold the Attendant responsible. He probably said that to keep the person honest so they might think he’d get stuck with it!

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Again, Canada isn't Europe and the habits and arguably the station-centric development patterns aren't there. It is a matter of custom as much as anything.......

That’s just the way it’s always been done in the larger stations here….even back when the CNR and CPR had passenger trains before VIA. (and also in the US) It has nothing to do with 9-11. At the smaller stations you just wait on the platform until the train arrives….the Service Manager or Attendant opens the doors and you go aboard. Afterwards they will come around to scan your ticket.

Commuter rail (GO Transit, EXO (Montreal) and West Coast Express) is different from VIA. They’re on the POP (proof of payment) system. You tap, scan or date stamp your ticket before boarding and it’s subject to verification on board. You could be fined if it’s not valid. (On VIA….they would just sell you a ticket)

And the airline style safety briefings were mandated by Transport Canada after a train-wreck several years ago as passengers were unaware of how to open emergency exits. A very good idea!

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

In July I took the train from Toronto to Montreal. It was a bit depressing and my Swedish companion laughed at it. It had old-style carbon copy credit card machines, dated decor, and it went very slowly. The Copenhagen-Stockholm line was probably like this in 1985.

Next time upgrade your ticket to VIA plus. If you do it within a week of travel I think it's only about $40 or $50 more and totally worth it. The cars are much nicer then coach and all of the food and drink is included with the ticket so no need to pull out your plastic. It makes that 4.5 trip feel like about 2 hrs. If you want a truly depressing experience try traveling on Amtrak. To be fair many European countries have great modern rail services, looking at Sweden's stock they are not one of them.


I think the Union to Pearson is the closest thing Canada has to a European Style train right now.
[IMG]"A" unit interior by chriskay, on Flickr[/IMG]

[ghYHZ]

Check out my post here (with photos) about a recent trip I had on VIA’s overnight ‘Ocean’ train between Montreal and Halifax (note this is posted to an Amtrak Forum…..I was just bragging about how good my VIA trip was!!)

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/inde...-on-the-ocean/

[kool maudit]

The UP Express is great. Really simple and efficient.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

To be fair many European countries have great modern rail services, looking at Sweden's stock they are not one of them.

I am back and forth to Stockholm and Gothenburg all the time. Basically, if you get the 'SJ Snabbtåg' its pretty good. You keep a steady 180-200 km/h and the interior is well-outfitted with a solid bistro car.

Really not bad, although it's no Shinkansen or whatever.





What you DON'T want to get is the 'Øresundståg'. These go to Gothenburg but not Stockholm and are a joint Swedish/Danish effort to link up the Øresund region and beyond.

These two countries do not get along that well and I can't help but feel that things like the Øresundståg suffer as a result.





VIA was better than Øresundståg. It was slower, but the services were nicer and the interior was more comfy. But SJ Snabbtåg is quite a bit better than VIA.

[niwell]

I used the Øresundståg between Copenhagen and Lund, and it definitely felt more like a commuter system than a proper long distance train. Much more in common with GO than VIA. It was fine for that short of a trip but I can't imagine taking it the full distance.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

This looks very Swedish, almost like IKEA was involved.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by niwell

I used the Øresundståg between Copenhagen and Lund, and it definitely felt more like a commuter system than a proper long distance train. Much more in common with GO than VIA. It was fine for that short of a trip but I can't imagine taking it the full distance.

Yeah it's not built for it really, but they do run them up to Gothenburg. They put a guy with a cart on it but it fools no one.