A cultural revolution in Dallas

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by strongbad635

The Turtle Creek Chorale is widely regarded as the world's finest gay men's chorus...

Is there such thing as a "straight men's chorus"?

[strongbad635]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Is there such thing as a "straight men's chorus"?

Surprisingly, when I live in Dallas, I chose to sing with the Vocal Majority and not the Turtle Creek Chorale even though I am gay. I liked the VM's focus on extremely high-quality singing and the fact that they participate in International Competition every 3 years (they won a gold every time they went to Internationals from 1979-2006, earning a silver in 2009). The VM has about a dozen or so gay guys, but shockingly the rest of the chorus is mostly conservative Christian Republican types who just enjoy making good 4-part harmony.

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Or maybe not all cities buy into the notion that "high culture" is all culture? Then again, these places (SJ and Dallas included) seem to have symphonies, ballets and opera companies anyway....

Intermittently.

But seriously, I'm waiting for the Silly Valley elite (beyond Lucille Packard) to start letting loose of some spare change and giving SJ all this great stuff Dallas is getting. Why should the San Jose Symphony have the kind of chronic money troubles it seems to have anyway?

[BTinSF]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Is there such thing as a "straight men's chorus"?

There would be if you'd start one.

The gay choruses got started in (you can guess) when gay rights were being fought over and gay spirits needed lifting. Coincidentally, they also could raise money because most of them were pretty good.

One thing I miss about not spending Christmas in SF in recent years is not attending the Christmas Eve carol-fest of the SF Gay Men's Chorus at the Castro Theater. It really is a wonderful holiday affair.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by BTinSF

There would be if you'd start one.

The gay choruses got started in (you can guess) when gay rights were being fought over and gay spirits needed lifting. Coincidentally, they also could raise money because most of them were pretty good.

One thing I miss about not spending Christmas in SF in recent years is not attending the Christmas Eve carol-fest of the SF Gay Men's Chorus at the Castro Theater. It really is a wonderful holiday affair.

Originally Posted by strongbad635

Surprisingly, when I live in Dallas, I chose to sing with the Vocal Majority and not the Turtle Creek Chorale even though I am gay. I liked the VM's focus on extremely high-quality singing and the fact that they participate in International Competition every 3 years (they won a gold every time they went to Internationals from 1979-2006, earning a silver in 2009). The VM has about a dozen or so gay guys, but shockingly the rest of the chorus is mostly conservative Christian Republican types who just enjoy making good 4-part harmony.

I know, I was just being ridiculous. I was reminded of the "Will & Grace" gay men's chorus episode with Matt Damon. There was a line in it that asked something like that. Good episode

[strongbad635]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I know, I was just being ridiculous. I was reminded of the "Will & Grace" gay men's chorus episode with Matt Damon. There was a line in it that asked something like that. Good episode

"Who cares about singing, we just want to go to Europe and shower together!!!!"

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

I think we can agree, though, that the fact Dallas now (1) cares about it's culture offerings and (2) is making investments both public and private, it is in a strong position to be a strong cultural player down the road in all art forms.

I compare to my hometown which was a wasteland of culture with crappy quality of life during it's boom years.... but from the 1880s on wards the city's leadership (public and private) made continuous effort to enhance these aspects and the results achieved by the mid-20th Century speak for themselves.

Just curious...what's your home town? Haven't seen it in your profile.

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by BTinSF

Intermittently.

But seriously, I'm waiting for the Silly Valley elite (beyond Lucille Packard) to start letting loose of some spare change and giving SJ all this great stuff Dallas is getting. Why should the San Jose Symphony have the kind of chronic money troubles it seems to have anyway?

(comment deleted)

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by strongbad635

"Who cares about singing, we just want to go to Europe and shower together!!!!"

That was a good episode

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by pesto

The concert hall is a true gem; a modern vibe but with strong references back to European church architecture.

Dallas may be modern, but the cowboy ethos is not dead; it's the only large city where I have seen men wearing business suits with cowboy hats and boots (well, maybe Houston too).

Sounds like you're still living in the 70's & 80's...

The good ole boy mentality in both cities is long gone & in its place are two of the most cosmopolitan cities in the nation.

The only cowboy hats you'll see in Dallas or Houston are worn by Vaqueros (Mexican cowboys).

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by pesto

The concert hall is a true gem; a modern vibe but with strong references back to European church architecture.

Dallas may be modern, but the cowboy ethos is not dead; it's the only large city where I have seen men wearing business suits with cowboy hats and boots (well, maybe Houston too).

I think it's possible to see a few men dressed that way, but I've also seen that in OKC, Denver, and almost every other city in the American west. But it's very, very uncommon in Dallas and all those cities, and has been since I've been around (over five decades). My Dad is 85 and he says such attire has been very scarce in the big cities since he's been around. If you think about it, there wouldn't be any functional reason for it. However, in rural areas, it was quite common because of prevailing vocations, and still exists to a limited extent. Much more common in rural areas are your typical Nike's or similar shoes, and baseball caps.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

The only cowboy hats you'll see in Dallas or Houston are worn by Vaqueros (Mexican cowboys).

Originally Posted by Dan Denson

But it's very, very uncommon in Dallas and all those cities, and has been since I've been around (over five decades). My Dad is 85 and he says such attire has been very scarce in the big cities since he's been around. If you think about it, there wouldn't be any functional reason for it.

As a resident of Dallas in the past decade and a frequent visitor for business, I have to disagree. Cowboy hats, boots, and pleated jeans were a common sight when I lived there and when I was just there a few months ago. It's not like every guy walking around is dressed in this style obviously, but you definitely do see it without having to look too hard. To say that this type of attire has been very scarce for 85 years (or even for the last 5 decades) is just completely untrue. I know a number of guys who dress like this and work in various professional positions. It's not my style, but I really don't see anything wrong with it or why it is seen as a negative. If someone wants to dress in a traditional western fashion, so what? The vast majority of the residents of Texas' large cities (and Texas in general) do not dress this way. It seems that more people who live in outer suburbs/smaller towns near Dallas and Houston dress this way (Rockwall, Burleson, Victoria, Katy, etc.) and work in Dallas/Houston. Dallas and Houston are cosmopolitan cities, but that doesn't mean that they must be self-conscious about the cowboy ethos and deny that you still see it and that it remains a part of the culture.

[pesto]

Y'all: I didn't mean the cowboy reference to be offensive. The cowboy ethos is far from being an insult and I think Dallas can pride itself on it. You actually still occasionally see Bavarian traditional dress clothes in Munich and other places around the world wear traditional dress with pride.

I certainly didn't mean that most (or even many) people wore hats and boots; just enough to let you know you ain't in the Upper East Side.

[Mikle]

Originally Posted by pj3000

As a resident of Dallas in the past decade and a frequent visitor for business, I have to disagree. Cowboy hats, boots, and pleated jeans were a common sight when I lived there and when I was just there a few months ago. It's not like every guy walking around is dressed in this style obviously, but you definitely do see it without having to look too hard. To say that this type of attire has been very scarce for 85 years (or even for the last 5 decades) is just completely untrue. I know a number of guys who dress like this and work in various professional positions. It's not my style, but I really don't see anything wrong with it or why it is seen as a negative. If someone wants to dress in a traditional western fashion, so what? The vast majority of the residents of Texas' large cities (and Texas in general) do not dress this way. It seems that more people who live in outer suburbs/smaller towns near Dallas and Houston dress this way (Rockwall, Burleson, Victoria, Katy, etc.) and work in Dallas/Houston. Dallas and Houston are cosmopolitan cities, but that doesn't mean that they must be self-conscious about the cowboy ethos and deny that you still see it and that it remains a part of the culture.

I would disagree. I lived in Dallas for several years in the mid/late 80's and NEVER witnessed a single person wearing a cowboy hat. I believe the only time I saw someone dressed in western attire was when visiting the Stockyards in Ft. Worth. Being from the West, I personally like western attire. In my home state of NM, it is very common to see men and women in boots and hats. I did expect to find the same in Dallas but it was not the case.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Mikle

I would disagree. I lived in Dallas for several years in the mid/late 80's and NEVER witnessed a single person wearing a cowboy hat.

Either your memory has failed you, you are in cowboy hat denial, you just never noticed for some reason, you never left the house in those several years of living in Dallas, or you are sight-impaired. That's ridiculous.

Well I lived in Manhattan and Pittsburgh for several years and have seen plenty of people in cowboy hats... and you NEVER saw a single one in Dallas in several years of living there? Gimme a break.

I work with a guy at UT-Southwestern who is originally from Arlington. He's a biochemist. He wears a cowboy hat to work everyday... sometimes boots too (takes the hat off at the door but keeps the boots on in the lab). A friend of mine is originally from Hamilton, lives in East Dallas. He's a geologist. he often wears a cowboy hat every time we go out in Dallas. Another friend is originally from Monday (in the Panhandle, I believe). He lives in Frisco, works downtown. He's a civil engineer. He wears pleated jeans and cowboy boots almost everyday, every once in a while a hat too. Those are just three people off the top of my head that I know personally. It's far, far from the norm, but to say that you never see men in western-style gear in Dallas (or the entire metroplex, for that matter) is simply ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with it.

[urbanactivist]

Go to the Gay Pride parade in September. You'll see cowboy hats, in every imaginable pattern and color, along with lots of other cowboy unmentionables.

[pesto]

For sure, many gay parades include cowboys; I was especially amazed at how many there were in the Frankfurt parade one year, but mostly I was amazed at what one posse standing in an open truck was wearing: chaps and hats. And what they were doing.

I can't imagine the Dallas one gets that colorful but maybe I'm wrong.

[Reverberation]

Originally Posted by Mikle

I would disagree. I lived in Dallas for several years in the mid/late 80's and NEVER witnessed a single person wearing a cowboy hat. I believe the only time I saw someone dressed in western attire was when visiting the Stockyards in Ft. Worth. Being from the West, I personally like western attire. In my home state of NM, it is very common to see men and women in boots and hats. I did expect to find the same in Dallas but it was not the case.

Cowboy hats are novelties. People wear them for attention because nobody else is wearing one. The boots are just way cool though. Plus if you're short they give you a few more inches than Cole Haans would.

[Metro Matt]

I agree. Some western wear does look nice. Cowboy hats, boots, & buckles when worn in a fashionable way with that metropolitan look is ok.

Plain old Wranglers with Justin boots though is kinda countryish IMO & is seen more in rural Texas.

[Dan Denson]

Pj I do think you have quite an imagination. But so be it.

Like I was saying, it can be found, but like most stereotypes, a person sees something and then it becomes imprinted in their mind that many or most people meet the stereotype. I was with a business associate from Seattle and we were changing planes at DFW. We saw a guy in a hat and boots (who knows where he was from), and when we arrived in St. Louis he told the group at dinner that night that "everyone" in Texas was dressed that way. In his mind, the person he saw got transformed into an image of "everyone" that didn't match reality. But he really believed he was telling it like it was. Our business group still kids him about that, all in good fun, though.

Regarding the "gay cowboy" thing, it's a type of drag, so to speak. Who can deny that it looks pretty cool.