Is your city a strong neighbourhood or strong downtown city?

[giallo]

Vancouver is an odd one. My first thought is to call it a downtown city, but the metro is morphing so quickly in to this multi-nodal, East Asian city-by-design layout, it's hard to say. Things that make a strong downtown by North American standards are being built further and further away from downtown, and while Vancouver has some great neighbourhoods, there aren't a ton of them.

So, regarding this question, I don't really know where Vancouver's strength lies

[logan5]

Over all I think DT Vancouver has more to offer than the so called cool neighbourhoods outside of the DT core, but I think it's fairly close. Commercial Dr. equals (or even beats) Davie st., W. 4th has a similar feel as Robson, and so on (I guess).

[Doady]

Mississauga is a weak neighbourhood and weak downtown city.

[spaceprobe]

For Vancouver, considering the very small limits of the city boundaries...you have to consider neighbourhoods in the adjacent cities....and the suburban "downtowns" are essentially neighbourhoods of Vancouver. Places like "downtown" richmond, or burnaby heights, etc

[lio45]

Originally Posted by ue

By that logic, La Defense is Downtown Paris, not the Central City. The Red Square isn't the heart of Moscow, the International Business District is. Tall buildings =/= downtown.

Well, that is, in my interpretation, the very thing this thread is discussing:

Tall buildings scattered in various neighborhoods == "strong neighborhoods city"

Tall buildings all concentrated downtown, Calgary style == "strong downtown city"

If Quebec's downtown is merely Vieux-Quebec, I'd agree that it is more of a neighbourhood city, but if it includes the more "functional" downtowns of St-Roch, St-Jean-Baptiste...

The actual downtown is Vieux-Québec + Parliament Hill. It doesn't include those "outer" residential neighborhoods, even though they're obviously pretty central in the Greater metro area.

edit: seems the official downtown also includes a sliver of lower town that lies west of the "Little Champlain" neighborhood at the foot of the hill.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vieux-..._Parlementaire

and whatever the area around Grand Allee and Bv Rene Levesque is called

"Parliament Hill" is the official name of this neighborhood, and it's considered part of the downtown.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by giallo

Vancouver is an odd one. My first thought is to call it a downtown city, but the metro is morphing so quickly in to this multi-nodal, East Asian city-by-design layout, it's hard to say. Things that make a strong downtown by North American standards are being built further and further away from downtown, and while Vancouver has some great neighbourhoods, there aren't a ton of them.

So, regarding this question, I don't really know where Vancouver's strength lies

Vancouver's funny because downtown is easily avoidable; I hardly leave the Broadway corridor, for example, which contains my home, work and places to shop for essentials - and I'm a dyed-in-the-wool urbanite. None of my friends live downtown, either, so I go downtown maybe once or twice a month. Even all the fun stuff that I go out to do isn't downtown: many of the better restaurants and all the microbreweries are away from downtown. In many cases, it feels like downtown caters to people who live downtown.

But, on the other hand, most of the city's identity comes from downtown: glass skyscrapers, the seawall, Stanley Park, etc. There's something uplifting about crossing one of the False Creek bridges and being deposited in a peninsula of skyscrapers.

By contrast, when people think of Toronto or Montreal often they might think of the urban neighbourhoods away from downtown: the Bay and Gable areas with streetcar commercial streets in Toronto, or the triplex with wrought iron staircase neighbourhoods of Montreal. Most people aren't thinking of Main street in Mount Pleasant when they think "Vancouver".

[Martin Mtl]

Montreal = neighborhoods.

Even the extended downtown is fragmented into small neighborhoods (le village gay, Quartier Latin, Quartier International/Paper Hill, Quartier des spectacles, Old Montreal, Griffintown, Shaughnessy village, Golden Square Mile, McGill ghetto); leaving in the center a very small commercial-financial district around Place Ville-Marie and large department stores (The Bay, Simons, Ogilvy, etc.).

[Taeolas]

Fredericton barely tips the scales either way; but I'd probably put it in a slightly stronger downtown city as is.

On the one hand, all the major shopping is away from downtown (up the hill at Regent, or across the river in Nashwaaksis and Two Nations Crossing), but downtown is the main office area, and it is also the main bar area, not that Freddy has much of a night life that I've noticed. Generally, for the University on the hill, the students tend to go down for fun, and up for shopping.

It's only major neighbourhoods are fairly weak in comparison; but they could grow if/when the city grows bigger. (I'm looking at Marysville, New Maryland, Nashwaaksis, Hanwell and Oromocto basically for future nodes)

[Beedok]

Hamilton is the embodiment of a neighbourhood city. Especially with the absorbed cities. Waterdown, Dundas, Concession Street, Westdale, Stoney Creek, Baron, the Delta, etc. Downtown's recovering, but not that strong a core.

Though maybe Thunder Bay is more so... North Core, South Core, West Fort, Current River, etc.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by giallo

Vancouver is an odd one. My first thought is to call it a downtown city, but the metro is morphing so quickly in to this multi-nodal, East Asian city-by-design layout, it's hard to say. Things that make a strong downtown by North American standards are being built further and further away from downtown, and while Vancouver has some great neighbourhoods, there aren't a ton of them.

So, regarding this question, I don't really know where Vancouver's strength lies

I'd consider Vancouver a multi-nodal city, with multiple centralized focal points of activity rather than the sort of blanket of vibrant neighbourhoods that Toronto or Montreal have, or the singular downtown focus of a place like Calgary.

Still, if I had to pick one or the other I'd say it has a strong core more than anything. Neither the peripheral neighbourhoods nor the suburban city centres capture the quintessential "Vancouver" quite like the downtown peninsula does.

[geotag277]

This seems like one of those questions that seems to make sense when you first read it, but after thinking about it a bit more, seems a bit absurd.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by geotag277

This seems like one of those questions that seems to make sense when you first read it, but after thinking about it a bit more, seems a bit absurd.

How? There may be some cities that follow a different model, but this covers the two most common options.

[Docere]

What is the definition of "downtown" in Toronto here?

I agree one of Toronto's strengths is the smooth transition from downtown to neighborhoods, particularly going west.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by spaceprobe

For Vancouver, considering the very small limits of the city boundaries...you have to consider neighbourhoods in the adjacent cities....and the suburban "downtowns" are essentially neighbourhoods of Vancouver. Places like "downtown" richmond, or burnaby heights, etc

This. As others have mentioned, Vancouver does have a strong downtown, and lots of strong neighbourhoods like Kitsilano, Kerrisdale, Commercial Drive, etc. But if you live in the suburbs, suburban centres are just as strong for you, so I guess you could say Metro Vancouver has a collection of strong downtowns. If you live in the suburbs, most of what you need will be available to you in the Richmond city centre, or Surrey's, or Coquitlam's. North Vancouver has Lower Lonsdale, Burnaby has Metrotown. New Westminster is its own thing basically. Obviously you don't have the commercial and entertainment variety that downtown has, but it's still a contrast to a REALLY strong downtown city like Calgary where if you're gonna go out, you're going downtown.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by Docere

What is the definition of "downtown" in Toronto here?

I agree one of Toronto's strengths is the smooth transition from downtown to neighborhoods, particularly going west.

This would be my definition:



I think the surrounding neighbourhoods that people usually consider "downtown", I would relabel as "central" (Queen W, Kensington, St. Lawrence, Chinatown, Little Italy, Church/Wellesley, Annex, etc.)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by shappy

This would be my definition:



I think the surrounding neighbourhoods that people usually consider "downtown", I would relabel as "central" (Queen W, Kensington, St. Lawrence, Chinatown, Little Italy, Church/Wellesley, Annex, etc.)

Yes, I would include all those neighbourhoods as downtown. Anything between Bathurst and Parliament (at least) and from Bloor to the lake. Adding in Yorkville, which doesn't really strike me as a "neighbourhood".

[yaletown_fella]

In my opinion Toronto is definitely a neighborhood city. Main/Gerrard feels so different than Yonge/St Clair. The Junction also has a completely different feel than Corsa Italia (st clair west reminds me of st laurent in montreal)


The downtown dosent have the pretty street lamps or big pre-war buildings that Chicago has.

While both are neigborhood cities, I'd argue Montreal is more of a downtown city than Toronto is. It punches above its weight for its population.

[niwell]

There's the official definition, but "downtown" Toronto is actually fairly hard to nail down. There are pockets of office buildings all over the core with low-rise residential buildings in close proximity. I generally agree with Shappy's post above, but there are very downownish pockets all the way between Bathurst and Parliament and up to the train tracks.

It's a good thing it's hard to define though. Many cities that have a very well defined downtown (and particularly American ones) are so because the area is surrounded by freeways or other separations. One of the best things about Toronto is the seamless shift from downtown to neighbourhood.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by shappy

This would be my definition:



I think the surrounding neighbourhoods that people usually consider "downtown", I would relabel as "central" (Queen W, Kensington, St. Lawrence, Chinatown, Little Italy, Church/Wellesley, Annex, etc.)

The "Bathurst to Don" official definition was initially called the Central Area by planners back in the 70s (downtown was contained within this area).

[Docere]

Anyway I'm going to have check out Calgary's downtown when I'm there next month.

Calgary strikes me more as a suburban city more than anything else, but let's see how much that's changed in the Nenshi area.