Chaos on commercial streets: For fans of gritty, cluttered stores and restaurants.

Segun · #1 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:16 AM**

I'm a big fan of the commercial street. I think its the lifeblood of the neighborhood, often providing the majority of the pedestrian traffic in one small area. A good or bad commercial street can make or break a neighborhood.

Lately, with the rise of gentrification, and upswing of small chains, clean, ordered and often minimalist designs and decor seem to be the trend of the day. While I find a certain charm in that neighborhood presentation, I also find the cluttered, less clean, worn down streetscapes and stores often found in blue collar neighborhoods to be as interesting, moreso IMO. I find myself more likely to stumble across a treasure through all the clutter, and more likely to patronize a business, even just to glance or look around.

Today, these areas are most exclusively the domain of immigrants. Whether it be a gritty Polish deli with open buckets of sauerkraut spilling over, an Indian gift store wall to wall with thousands of figures of Vishnu, a Mexican shop that sells a bunch of random stuff with toys from 1980, an African shop with sculptures and fake leather, or a Chinese grocery store with a funky fish smell, or just a simple hardware store, these areas keep the city interesting and diverse.

What are some of the gritty, cluttered commercial strips of your city? Bonus Points if they look interesting.

Here are some for Chicago:

Milwaukee Ave between Belmont and Diversey (Avondale)
Mostly Polish businesses, turns Mexican/Central American further South towards Diversey. Probably won't last long, as the next few blocks were swallowed up by the Logan Square gentrification machine.
https://goo.gl/maps/MLZiikmhQ4k

Armitage Ave between Laramie and Kedzie (Humboldt Park)
Mostly Puerto Rican
https://goo.gl/maps/SrKmJwxwayo

Belmont Ave between Kedzie and Austin (Healy)
The Belmont/Central area was one of those old school shopping destinations that managed to stay intact due to a flow of immigration, mostly from Mexico, which is common in Chicago.
https://goo.gl/maps/vELw44cPKQH2

Devon between Ridge and McCormick (West Rogers Park)
While Little Bombay doesn't look too gritty nowadays, thanks to money on neighborhood improvements like decorative streetlights, its businesses still have that cluttered, anything for sale feel. Also, the fact that it goes from Indo-Pak to Islamic to Jewish in a few blocks is interesting.
https://goo.gl/maps/gfFeXaVzHMm

Wentworth (Chinatown)
Not the most well known Chinatown, but it has its blue collar Chicago charm intact.
https://goo.gl/maps/UKme78YX8CP2

79th - Cottage Grove to the Dan Ryan Expressway
Like many streets in the South Side, businesses are scattered between empty storefronts, empty plots of land, invasive strip malls, and buried between Hair and Nail salons, and currency exchanges, but when you do find some interesting businesses, they stick out. There's a few African grocery stores, restaurants and Jerk Chicken spots scattered here and there. Gritty streetscape too. Hood clothing stores are interesting also because you can find a collection of crazy T-shirts, bootleg DVD's and Blunts.
https://goo.gl/maps/wWhzi17gzYn

Bonus: Melrose Park (19th)
I stumbled across this stretch of Mexican businesses years ago and couldn't figure out where it was until recently. It pops up out of nowhere, almost like some small frontier town in Texas or out West. Strange enough to mention here.
https://goo.gl/maps/KmScaWKH84E2

Somebody is gonna post a Family Dollar. Watch.

SIGSEGV · #2 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 7:26 AM**

I'm surprised you didn't list 26th St. in Little Village:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8445...7i16384!8i8192

And this is tiny, but I've passed by this block of 55th St a few times on the bus in Gage Park and I like the vibe:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7937...7i16384!8i8192

And a scene from Berwyn:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8505...7i16384!8i8192

And 35th Street in Bronzeville is kind of half intact:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8310...7i16384!8i8192

Edit: How can I forget Argyle / Broadway in Uptown?
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9732...7i16384!8i8192

jtown,man · #3 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 7:27 AM**

I'm really weird when it comes to urban commercial corridors. I don't like roads which mainly are 99 cent stores and the like but I also don't like streets with just banks, chains, and Starbucks.

I like the sweet spot where a local person can still afford to open up a store which isn't super expensive and geared towards hipsters(or whatever the term is now) while also having chains I like mixed in to show that the neighborhood is healthy.

CaliNative · #4 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 9:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

I'm a big fan of the commercial street. I think its the lifeblood of the neighborhood, often providing the majority of the pedestrian traffic in one small area. A good or bad commercial street can make or break a neighborhood.

Lately, with the rise of gentrification, and upswing of small chains, clean, ordered and often minimalist designs and decor seem to be the trend of the day. While I find a certain charm in that neighborhood presentation, I also find the cluttered, less clean, worn down streetscapes and stores often found in blue collar neighborhoods to be as interesting, moreso IMO. I find myself more likely to stumble across a treasure through all the clutter, and more likely to patronize a business, even just to glance or look around.

Today, these areas are most exclusively the domain of immigrants. Whether it be a gritty Polish deli with open buckets of sauerkraut spilling over, an Indian gift store wall to wall with thousands of figures of Vishnu, a Mexican shop that sells a bunch of random stuff with toys from 1980, an African shop with sculptures and fake leather, or a Chinese grocery store with a funky fish smell, or just a simple hardware store, these areas keep the city interesting and diverse.

What are some of the gritty, cluttered commercial strips of your city? Bonus Points if they look interesting.

Here are some for Chicago:

Milwaukee Ave between Belmont and Diversey (Avondale)
Mostly Polish businesses, turns Mexican/Central American further South towards Diversey. Probably won't last long, as the next few blocks were swallowed up by the Logan Square gentrification machine.
https://goo.gl/maps/MLZiikmhQ4k

Armitage Ave between Laramie and Kedzie (Humboldt Park)
Mostly Puerto Rican
https://goo.gl/maps/SrKmJwxwayo

Belmont Ave between Kedzie and Austin (Healy)
The Belmont/Central area was one of those old school shopping destinations that managed to stay intact due to a flow of immigration, mostly from Mexico, which is common in Chicago.
https://goo.gl/maps/vELw44cPKQH2

Devon between Ridge and McCormick (West Rogers Park)
While Little Bombay doesn't look too gritty nowadays, thanks to money on neighborhood improvements like decorative streetlights, its businesses still have that cluttered, anything for sale feel. Also, the fact that it goes from Indo-Pak to Islamic to Jewish in a few blocks is interesting.
https://goo.gl/maps/gfFeXaVzHMm

Wentworth (Chinatown)
Not the most well known Chinatown, but it has its blue collar Chicago charm intact.
https://goo.gl/maps/UKme78YX8CP2

79th - Cottage Grove to the Dan Ryan Expressway
Like many streets in the South Side, businesses are scattered between empty storefronts, empty plots of land, invasive strip malls, and buried between Hair and Nail salons, and currency exchanges, but when you do find some interesting businesses, they stick out. There's a few African grocery stores, restaurants and Jerk Chicken spots scattered here and there. Gritty streetscape too. Hood clothing stores are interesting also because you can find a collection of crazy T-shirts, bootleg DVD's and Blunts.
https://goo.gl/maps/wWhzi17gzYn

Bonus: Melrose Park (19th)
I stumbled across this stretch of Mexican businesses years ago and couldn't figure out where it was until recently. It pops up out of nowhere, almost like some small frontier town in Texas or out West. Strange enough to mention here.
https://goo.gl/maps/KmScaWKH84E2

Somebody is gonna post a Family Dollar. Watch.

You kind of had me until you said you prefer "less clean" over clean. I refuse to eat in places with suspect sanitation or dirty restrooms. "Overflowing open buckets of sauerkraut" sounds kind of yucky. Maybe I'm a germaphobe. I trace it back to a terrible case of food poisoning (probably salmonella) I got many years ago after getting some takeout Chinese food from a self-service deli in Manhattan. I had a high fever and threw up for hours. I also don't find neighborhoods with urine smells and feces and rats in the alleys very nice places. Diversity yes, but clean is good too. I usually prepare my own meals, but when I get take out food I usually microwave it to zap all the bacteria, and constantly use hand sanitizers. I rarely eat in restaurants anymore (I get take out and microwave it at home). Maybe I'm turning into Howard Hughs, but I'll hopefully never get food poisoning or the runs again.

Steely Dan · #5 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 2:59 PM**

how about these?

18th st. in pilsen: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8577...7i16384!8i8192

lawrence in albany park: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9683...7i16384!8i8192

archer in brighton park: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8161...7i16384!8i8192

Jonesy55 · #6 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 3:24 PM**

Is 'overflowing buckets of sauerkraut' in stores permitted by hygiene regulations?

Jonesy55 · #7 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 3:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

how about these?

18th st. in pilsen: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8577...7i16384!8i8192

lawrence in albany park: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9683...7i16384!8i8192

archer in brighton park: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8161...7i16384!8i8192

Apart from the wider roads, different cars and the seemingly grid pattern of streets those pics look really quite similar to many of the inner city (donut areas outside the real city centre) commercial streets I see in many UK cities.

eschaton · #8 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 3:30 PM**

Pittsburgh has around 40 different finely-grained walkable commercial strips (not counting the suburbs), but there are a couple which are right on the balance between grit and activity.

Liberty Avenue (Bloomfield) - Probably the best example in the city. It was a historically Italian neighborhood which got more and more dominated by young people as time went on. The low quality of the housing stock has kept out gentrifier types until the last few years though - it was more broke students and the like until recently. I lived there when I first moved to Pittsburgh over a decade ago. Very vibrant business district which only recently started having a couple more upscale/gentrified businesses (though some stuff, like the coffee shop, record store, and Thai restaurant, have been there for a long time).

East Ohio Street (East Allegheny) - The only substantial business district on the North Side which escaped urban renewal. The surrounding residential blocks are actually pretty gentrified, but the commercial strip itself stayed kinda downscale for a long time because lots of low-income people from other neighborhoods would take the bus there to shop. It's also starting to attract more upscale businesses.

East Carson (South Side) - Despite being a major site of residential gentrification in the 1990s, the grit in South Side never fully cleaned up. Basically it transitioned from a "trendy" area with art galleries to bar central for awhile. Then other areas of the city opened up, NIMBYs on the back streets pushed for permit parking, and the commercial district took a bit of a downturn. It's still a very functional business district (with a high concentration of bars) but it never became yuppie central as many feared.

Semple Street (Oakland) - The southern part of Oakland is basically a large undergraduate student slum. Student slums tend to be very gritty/ratty, because neither the students nor the landlords care enough to improve the properties. They do tend to be walkable though because students like to spend disposable income on food and alcohol. This area in particular is a pretty seedy part of Oakland.

Tom In Chicago · #9 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 4:54 PM**

My favorite block in Chicago at Clark / Van Buren

. . .

badrunner · #10 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 5:04 PM**

Tom In Chicago · #11 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 5:08 PM**

^I love downtown LA. . . the closest thing to a third world country we have here in the US. . .

. . .

shivtim · #12 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 5:53 PM**

Gritty, cluttered, unclean, and interesting?
Atlanta - Peachtree St between MLK and Alabama: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7528...7i13312!8i6656

Segun · #13 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonesy55

Is 'overflowing buckets of sauerkraut' in stores permitted by hygiene regulations?

If the city inspector happens to catch it, or a wad of cash in the city inspectors hand happens to make it conveniently overlooked....

jmecklenborg · #14 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:28 PM**

Cincinnati has dozens of functioning neighborhood business districts.

Hamilton Ave. in Northside:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1627...7i13312!8i6656

Ludlow Ave. in Clifton:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1436...7i13312!8i6656

Short Vine (formerly just Vine St.) next to UC:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1295...7i13312!8i6656

McMillan St.:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1279...7i13312!8i6656

Woodburn Ave. in Walnut Hills:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1283...7i13312!8i6656

Madison Rd. in Obryonville:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1321...7i13312!8i6656

Benson Rd. in Reading:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2232...7i13312!8i6656

There are at least 15 more.

dubu · #15 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:32 PM**

i was going to post china town chicago but i zoomed out and saw why there wasnt many people, too many freeways.

Segun · #16 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

how about these?

18th st. in pilsen: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8577...7i16384!8i8192

lawrence in albany park: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9683...7i16384!8i8192

archer in brighton park: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8161...7i16384!8i8192

Lawrence has those cool terra cotta buildings.

Montrose a few blocks away isn't as interesting visually, but it has wide sidewalks & trees, which are refreshing to walk in, especially in the summer.

https://goo.gl/maps/WGPvJWHhvqj

Nice choices for Chicago also SIGSEGV

Tom in Chicago, there's a swanky Jazz type club named Refuge smack in the middle of those businesses. Somehow it works on that block.

Cool shots of LA Badrunner. I would guess LA has more of this type of shopping than any place other than NYC, though the urban, walkable strips are scattered around. One of the noteable strips I came across one visit was located in Huntington Park. It looks like the much bigger brother of the street I posted from Melrose Park, IL

https://goo.gl/maps/p8zSy5LCRMM2

Nice shots of Pittsburgh eschaton. From my last visit, Pittsburgh has a lot of these streets. I remember one with this Big department store. It's wider, but still stood out.

MonkeyRonin · #17 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:44 PM**

Steely Dan · #18 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

Lawrence has those cool terra cotta buildings.

Montrose a few blocks away isn't as interesting visually, but it has wide sidewalks & trees, which are refreshing to walk in, especially in the summer.

there are some spots on lawrence in AP with some ok tree coverage too:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9684...7i16384!8i8192

but yeah, montrose is a little bit better for trees.

still, my vote for the best of tree-covered retail street in chicago goes to roscoe through roscoe village, but it's been thoroughly gentrified so it doesn't qualify for this thread:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9432...7i16384!8i8192

Tom In Chicago · #19 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 6:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I think most commercial streets in Toronto would fit the bill.

Toronto has great street level commercial streets just about everywhere. . . they seem to make it work with smaller sized parcels where in places like Chicago (or anywhere else in the US) there's always a bank or CVS/Walgreen's ready to fill large format spaces. . . adding nothing to the street. . .

. . .

the urban politician · #20 Posted **Jan 10, 2019, 7:07 PM**

Chicago's commercial strips appear sanitized compared to what we saw in LA.

I really like how clothes, fruit and other goods are displayed directly on the sidewalk in LA and NYC. I've always hated how Chicago had laws against that