Canadian Entertainment, Music and Catch All II

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Being an extremely close contemporary of Justin Trudeau (we're very close in age) and like him having grown up mostly in the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle with a foot in both francophone and anglophone Canada, I've always said I can't believe that an explanation for the blackface incidents (at least three of them) was innocent ignorance.

There isn't anyone like Justin and I who wouldn't have known and that rules out (1) for me. (In one photo he also has a banana stuck down the front of his pants. He needed a place to store fruit while keeping his hands free?)

In his case it's likely a (2) or a (3). Unlikely to be (4) though.

That was basically my take as well, although without the benefit of your background I wasn't confident in ruling out #1

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

2) A person who genuinely cared about indigenous people and perhaps once believed she was one. Then reacted poorly to the discovery she wasn't, going too far to avoid embarrassment.

A social worker in my social circle had an interesting theory that is a version of this.

Part of the story is that Buffy alleged sexual abuse from her brother.

This social worker friend of mine has worked with survivors of childhood sexual abuse and told me that it's common for them to become compulsive liars as adults as a sort of trauma response. She thinks it's quite plausible that Buffy, as a consequence to being sexually abused by her own family, convinced herself that her family can't actually be her family and came up with this alternate identity as an adopted indigenous woman as a result.. and the trauma of it all made her a compulsive liar that had to keep the story publically accepted, explaining how vicious she was to those who threatened to expose her.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

A social worker in my social circle had an interesting theory that is a version of this.

Part of the story is that Buffy alleged sexual abuse from her brother.

This social worker friend of mine has worked with survivors of childhood sexual abuse and told me that it's common for them to become compulsive liars as adults as a sort of trauma response. She thinks it's quite plausible that Buffy, as a consequence to being sexually abused by her own family, convinced herself that her family can't actually be her family and came up with this alternate identity as an adopted indigenous woman as a result.. and the trauma of it all made her a compulsive liar that had to keep the story publically accepted, explaining how vicious she was to those who threatened to expose her.

If it's true then that is really tragic. Sometimes it's hard to imagine what some people have to go through. Would be hard for something like that not to permanently scar a person.

[elly63]

Her brother (and early on her uncle) were contacting and telling media she was a phony. Doesn't pass the common sense test that the brother would call attention to himself if he was guilty of something.

Her accusation of abuse came at a time when she was financially vulnerable and needed work. Her brother didn't shy away from the accusation as a guilty person might, he wanted to fight it but noting she had already lawyered up he would have to match that and she was better situated relative to that. They had no relationship issues until the critical moment when PBS put two and two together.

I believe the poison letter was not her idea but she had to play along or her life would have been shattered. As she had already disengaged publicly (but not yet privately) from the family by saying she was adopted, I am assuming she could grudgingly accept the letter.

Her whole story just isn't believable when weighed against the other side.

She said she had documented abuse in her diary. I can believe her brother may have picked on her or was nasty to her. My older brother and I never got on as kids as he was always beating me up. We weren't very close but time heals all wounds and we are quite close now. But I have to question how she riddles everything and her brother was open about everything. I'm just not buying her story, she has done nothing but chaff and redirect as the behavioural guys say.

[Architype]

It's hard to believe that she was able to pull off this imaginary identity for so many years, decades, since there must have been many people who were aware of her actual birth. I am not sure if there ever was a pattern of Canadian babies being adopted into far away states around that time, but her basic story did not seem credible without more detail and explanation. Her inconsistencies occurred long ago, claiming origin from three different geographically distant tribes; all three could not be true. Her native like appearance is likely a characteristic of her Italian heritage, but these days you can easily prove or disprove ethnicity using DNA tests; that should be the first recourse for anyone in that situation. The bottom line is that it's sadly a disappointment to many who looked up to her and admired her work.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Architype

The bottom line is that it's sadly a disappointment to many who looked up to her and admired her work.

Indigenous Women's Collective calls for Buffy Sainte-Marie's 2018 Juno to be rescinded after CBC investigation
Advocacy group says evidence that contradicts songwriter's claims to Indigenous ancestry 'overwhelming'
CBC News October 30, 2023

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

That was basically my take as well, although without the benefit of your background I wasn't confident in ruling out #1

Today is Halloween. I am in my mid-50s and I've never in my life been to a Halloween party either as a child, teen or adult, where a white person got made up in blackface like Justin Trudeau was in those photos.

(Though I've seen lots of white people dressed up in ethnic costumes like Indigenous, Arab, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, etc.)

When Trudeau did that (around 1990 I am guessing) you wouldn't have gotten cancelled for it with your life ruined like you might today, but it would still have been an extremely cringeworthy thing to do.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When Trudeau did that (around 1990 I am guessing) you wouldn't have gotten cancelled for it with your life ruined like you might today, but it would still have been an extremely cringeworthy thing to do.

While it didn’t cancel Ted Danson in 1993, it was very cringeworthy. I think that I can easily say that anyone in this age bracket (I too am in those “50’s”) knew that this was wrong in any context.

Now in the 80’s ….. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Man_(film)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by shreddog

While it didn’t cancel Ted Danson in 1993, it was very cringeworthy. I think that I can easily say that anyone in this age bracket (I too am in those “50’s”) knew that this was wrong in any context.

Now in the 80’s ….. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Man_(film)

Even so, there is a difference between actually doing it in real life and portraying it or parodying it in a film.

I would think that if someone made a movie about Al Jolsson today that it would be perfectly acceptable for the lead actor to don blackface, to show things as they really were at that time.

[MolsonExport]

The Trudeau blackface incident: (a) was a long time ago, when such things were considered less reprehensible than they rightly are so today, and (b) demonstrated very poor judgment on the part of JT, and was extremely cringe-worthy. But does anyone really think, in light of his very public record, that he harbours racism and/or prejudice? Now had he worn Blackface as a member of parliament, or as PM, well...

Given that it is Halloween, I figure every politician will have some skeleton in their closet. This, to me, is quite minor, and I believe he did own up to it and apologize. Unlike the Trumpster fire with his continuing racist pronouncements and long history of making racist remarks, ethnic stereotyping, and endless misogyny.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Trudeau. The blackface episode is not a worthy one.

[Acajack]

I think even Justin Trudeau back then probably had a hunch that it was wrong or at least distasteful, but he had grown up in a very privileged environment where one supposes he could get away with almost anything with few consequences.

Certainly more so than you and I.

That wasn't my upbringing as I've said, but I did know some people who were Silver Spoon types and they were often the most likely to exhibit socially reprehensible behaviour. Along with those at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum - in their case it was because they felt they had nothing to lose.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think even Justin Trudeau back then probably had a hunch that it was wrong or at least distasteful, but he had grown up in a very privileged environment where one supposes he could get away with almost anything with few consequences.

Certainly more so than you and I.

That wasn't my upbringing as I've said, but I did know some people who were Silver Spoon types and they were often the most likely to exhibit socially reprehensible behaviour. Along with those at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum - in their case it was because they felt they had nothing to lose.

Yes, I think there is much truth in this.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That wasn't my upbringing as I've said, but I did know some people who were Silver Spoon types and they were often the most likely to exhibit socially reprehensible behaviour.

Reminded me of Prince Harry and the Nazi costume. What was he thinking, especially being a British soldier. Maybe the problem some years ago was that you thought you would be afforded some privacy being among your friends and not have people exposing their private photos on the Internet.

[elly63]

When I was a kid the only blackface we would do would be to rub old carbon paper on our faces for about five seconds to live the black experience. More worried about the cancer than the cancelling now

[thurmas]

Hadn't followed the story past few days but seeing the birth certificate shows she is talian is pretty daming.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The Trudeau blackface incident: (a) was a long time ago, when such things were considered less reprehensible than they rightly are so today, and (b) demonstrated very poor judgment on the part of JT, and was extremely cringe-worthy. But does anyone really think, in light of his very public record, that he harbours racism and/or prejudice? Now had he worn Blackface as a member of parliament, or as PM, well...

Given that it is Halloween, I figure every politician will have some skeleton in their closet. This, to me, is quite minor, and I believe he did own up to it and apologize. Unlike the Trumpster fire with his continuing racist pronouncements and long history of making racist remarks, ethnic stereotyping, and endless misogyny.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Trudeau. The blackface episode is not a worthy one.

At a policy or political level, JT's blackface incident(s) aren't particularly meaningful - certainly, there is no indication that that affects his leadership or that his government has operated in a racist way. But, it sure is a pretty damning indictment of his personal character; and speaks to him being out-of-touch and oblivious, if nothing else (characteristics which have also been evident in his political career).

[MonkeyRonin]

Re. Buffy Sainte-Marie: I don't really care and have no stake in the controversy either way, but one thing that jumped out at me from CBC's "exposé" that I haven't seen addressed is that - Indigenous or not - she obviously looks quite different from even her family members.

Case in point, this is her brother circa the 1960s: https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/...n_airforce.jpg
And Buffy around the same time: https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/...Village%29.jpg

Whether acknowledged by the family or not, there's certainly a strong possibility that she was either adopted or at least the product of an affair, and at least would have some reason to believe so.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

she was either adopted or at least the product of an affair, and at least would have some reason to believe so.

I had thought that but her sister had a DNA done which lined up with Buffy's son so she couldn't have been adopted. I think she only began to really "look native" was when she went to university. Great mystery story though.

In an effort to confirm the “part Micmac” lore, another family member — Sainte-Marie’s younger sister — shared online that she took a commercial DNA test through Ancestry.Com, the largest for-profit genealogy company in the world. In discussing the results, she said she is biologically “related” to Wolfchild’s son, a scenario that would be impossible if her famous sibling’s “Big Scoop” narrative were factual.

The sister revealed that she uploaded the DNA data files from her Ancestry.Com test to GEDMatch, a popular website used for genetic genealogy and family tree research. In one of her posts on social media, she even shared the unique identifier associated with her “kit” — as the results are known on the site.

Using the unique identifier, the sister’s DNA kit was viewed by Indianz.Com. The results show almost no American Indian component in the Sainte-Marie family’s genetic makeup, undercutting the claim of being “part Micmac” that appeared in the 2012 biography and in early news stories about the singer known around the world as “Buffy.”

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Hadn't followed the story past few days but seeing the birth certificate shows she is talian is pretty daming.

The birth certificate didn't say she was Italian, it said she was white. Both her parents were born in Boston, her paternal grandparents were born in Italy.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by elly63

The birth certificate didn't say she was Italian, it said she was white. Both her parents were born in Boston, her paternal grandparents were born in Italy.

Yeah it said her last name is Santamaria an Italian last name?