How much will hosting the 2020 RNC help Charlotte?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

Frankly, I'm surprised that any city would want the 2020 RNC. It's going to be a security nightmare unless something changes in the next year-and-a-half.

Yeah, considering that the current social/political climate will more than likely only worsen over the next 1 1/2 years (hope not) of this Trump "presidency", it seems that the RNC convention/host city could provide the venue for a nasty affair.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

Atlanta has no advantages over Charlotte. It’s basically an identical city on a larger scale. Charlotte can easily catch up to it.

This is like saying: Chicago has no advantages over Milwaukee. It’s basically an identical city on a larger scale. Milwaukee can easily catch up to it.

or

New York has no advantages over Philadelphia. It’s basically an identical city on a larger scale. Philadelphia can easily catch up to it.

or

Take you pick of regional city pairs...


The larger scale you mention is a distinct advantage for Atlanta over Charlotte. With that larger scale comes a history of greater importance. Atlanta has been a signifcantly larger and much more influential and diversified city than Charlotte throughout history.

Atlanta is what?... probably 3x the size of Charlotte? And it's a much more mature city in comparison... having basically been the "capital" of the South post-Civil War... becoming a nationally important city at the turn of the last century as a center of trade and industrial production... while Charlotte was a secondary regional center.

[jd3189]

Yeah, despite the sprawl nature of both, Atlanta still feels more grand and urban compared to Charlotte. The only other Southeastern metros that could compare or supersede it in that scale are Miami and DC, and they both supercede Atlanta in many ways.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, despite the sprawl nature of both, Atlanta still feels more grand and urban compared to Charlotte. The only other Southeastern metros that could compare or supersede it in that scale are Miami and DC, and they both supercede Atlanta in many ways.

The "Miami metro" is a much different animal though... being a narrow linear strip on the coast with Miami at the bottom of it effectively eliminates Miami as the center of the South Florida metro. Whereas Atlanta is the hub. Miami is just the largest node. Miami does not have anywhere near the regional influence in its metro like Atlanta has in its.

And the greater DC area is a different case altogether... far from "southeastern" in the sense that Atlanta is... significantly larger, and being part of the east coast corridor... it's never even been in any sort of competition with Atlanta.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by jd3189

Yeah, despite the sprawl nature of both, Atlanta still feels more grand and urban compared to Charlotte. The only other Southeastern metros that could compare or supersede it in that scale are Miami and DC, and they both supercede Atlanta in many ways.

Yes, I visited both cities, and felt Charlotte was a little 'behind the times' compared with Atlanta. When I visited in the mid-2000s, as a gay person, I was shocked to find out there were gay bars that required membership and needed a member to 'sponsor' you in. I am not sure if they still have that bar/club, but that type of policy had vanished in the big urban cities decades ago.

I don't think it will ever rival Atlanta, as it has to contend with the RDC area and better consider that as RCD is now attracting the same industries as Charlotte does (namely financial), is growing faster, and has outstanding colleges. I don't see the Rep convention helping Charlotte that much. If anything it will reinforce it's reputation as a fairly conservative metro area. Let's not forget that the Dem convention was in Charlotte in 2012, and that did not do that much for Charlotte, reputation wise. if anything, that had the chance to change Charlotte and NC to a more progressive image, but it did not.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Yes, I visited both cities, and felt Charlotte was a little 'behind the times' compared with Atlanta. When I visited in the mid-2000s, as a gay person, I was shocked to find out there were gay bars that required membership and needed a member to 'sponsor' you in. I am not sure if they still have that bar/club, but that type of policy had vanished in the big urban cities decades ago.

I don't think it will ever rival Atlanta, as it has to contend with the RDC area and better consider that as RCD is now attracting the same industries as Charlotte does (namely financial), is growing faster, and has outstanding colleges. I don't see the Rep convention helping Charlotte that much. If anything it will reinforce it's reputation as a fairly conservative metro area. Let's not forget that the Dem convention was in Charlotte in 2012, and that did not do that much for Charlotte, reputation wise. if anything, that had the chance to change Charlotte and NC to a more progressive image, but it did not.

Charlotte (and western NC) is the birthplace and center of southern presbyterianism, among other weirdo evangelicalism, so I wouldn't be too confident of it ever becoming very progressive. Along with being a banking center... yeah, pretty conservative foundations.

[iheartthed]

I'm a royal blue liberal but Charlotte could and should host the RNC. So should almost any other city that has the opportunity.

Charlotte is actually a larger city than Atlanta, but it is at the center of a smaller metropolis. While it is a smaller metropolis, it is growing a bit faster than Atlanta. Charlotte's MSA has grown by 13.5% since 2010 compared to Atlanta's very respectable 8.3%. Charlotte's income is also skyrocketing at about 10% annual increase in 2016 vs Atlanta's 4%.

And Charlotte the city, along with Charlotte the region, are already larger than Cleveland in both respects. Cleveland was the last city to host the RNC.

At risk of city vs city (I mentioned Cleveland!), I think Charlotte is developing into a much better urban experience than Atlanta. I could see it becoming the south east's San Francisco to Atlanta's LA in the coming decades.

[maru2501]

From what I understand there were few bidders, but it probably makes sense for Charlotte, which is trying hard to break into an upper tier of cities. Not THE upper tier, but a higher tier.

I can see why Charlotte would do it, despite trying to put on a more progressive image. It does have a Dem mayor, and remember it was Charlotte's progressiveness that kicked off the "bathroom" rights fight in NC.

I do see it as a very high-risk event however. If the national protests in the resist movement are any indication, the city has the chance to basically be overrun by protesters and street disturbances I would say are very very possible.

Trump has been the most controversial president in modern times. Think about all the marches. BLM, various antifa, women's rights, giant immigration rallies, gun legislation. It has been insane. Every one of those groups will be down there, and the delegates will need to take armored personnel carriers too and from this arena. So yeah, the next Chicago '68 is possible.
Remember also that Charlotte already has endured its own street protests with a controversial police shooting in recent years. It has its own large population base that could come out, even in a vacuum.

If Trump is impeached and it's basically an open convention, that risk goes down.

I don't think the event puts the place on the map. It already is as Atlanta's chief business competitor. It has seen a lot of growth, and it's main challenge is needing more urban fabric and not just faceless apartment blocks.

Here is an interesting take from the Charlotte Observer on how much the city has changed since hosting the Dems in 2012...


https://www.charlotteobserver.com/ne...215051415.html

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

And Charlotte the city, along with Charlotte the region, are already larger than Cleveland in both respects.

As usual, that depends on how one wants to classify... apples and oranges of course. But, Charlotte area is really NOT bigger than Cleveland area in reality.

Cleveland-Akron area is 3.5M
Charlotte-Gastonia is 2.6M

If you wanted to limit the Cleveland metro to just the Cleveland-Elyria MSA, then you would have to draw some very restrictive boundaries around Charlotte... since it has no other MSA in the region (contrary to the Akron area present in the Cleveland region). But this would be an unrealistic representation of the Charlotte area, just as the strict Cleveland-Elyria is an unrealistic representation of the Cleveland area.

NE Ohio is just a far more developed region than SW North Carolina is.

Sure, the city of Charlotte is significantly larger in population... but it's also 300 sq miles... compared to Cleveland's 75 sq miles. Charlotte's density is 2,500 per sq mi... that's half of Cleveland's density.

Media markets:
Cleveland 19th
Charlotte 23rd

[edale]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm a royal blue liberal but Charlotte could and I think Charlotte is developing into a much better urban experience than Atlanta. I could see it becoming the south east's San Francisco to Atlanta's LA in the coming decades.

I've not been to Charlotte beside the airport, but I've heard it has basically no traditionally urban or walkable neighborhoods outside of downtown, which they call Uptown, I think. I've heard there are very few historic neighborhoods, very few pockets of meaningful density (population or built environment), not much in the way of culture that one would expect of a big city, etc. Perhaps I've been given bad intel, but even family members who have lived there for work have left citing the bland nature of the place.

[skyscraper]

Originally Posted by maru2501

If Trump is impeached and it's basically an open convention, that risk goes down.

What would he be impeached for?
Also, "impeached" does not mean "removed from office", it just means to bring formal charges against. (See Clinton, Bill).

[mhays]

The left will protest, but the real problem might be the far right...any attempt to rally around someone else would rile up his fans to a huge degree, as he's basically threatened and encouraged before.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by pj3000

As usual, that depends on how one wants to classify... apples and oranges of course. But, Charlotte area is really NOT bigger than Cleveland area in reality.

Cleveland-Akron area is 3.5M
Charlotte-Gastonia is 2.6M

If you wanted to limit the Cleveland metro to just the Cleveland-Elyria MSA, then you would have to draw some very restrictive boundaries around Charlotte... since it has no other MSA in the region (contrary to the Akron area present in the Cleveland region). But this would be an unrealistic representation of the Charlotte area, just as the strict Cleveland-Elyria is an unrealistic representation of the Cleveland area.

NE Ohio is just a far more developed region than SW North Carolina is.

Sure, the city of Charlotte is significantly larger in population... but it's also 300 sq miles... compared to Cleveland's 75 sq miles. Charlotte's density is 2,500 per sq mi... that's half of Cleveland's density.

Media markets:
Cleveland 19th
Charlotte 23rd

Going off MSA data, Charlotte is larger than Cleveland
22 Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC MSA 2,525,305 +13.91%
33 Cleveland-Elyria, OH MSA 2,058,844 −0.89%

Going off CSA data, Cleveland is larger than Charlotte [the worst measurement IMO]
16 Cleveland-Akron-Canton, OH 3,485,691 3,515,646 −0.85%
20 Charlotte-Concord, NC-SC 2,684,121 +12.98%

Cleveland is in decline and Charlotte has grown by about 13-14% since 2010.

And if you look at 2010 Urban Area, Cleveland is larger than Charlotte.
25 Cleveland, OH 1,780,673 Pop Density 2,306.7 sq.m
38 Charlotte, NC 1,249,442 Pop Density 1,685.0 sq.m

This is from 2010 and Charlotte has been growing tremendously, while Cleveland has been negative in growth. Just a rough guesstimate: Charlotte is probably around 1.45 million and Cleveland is 1.76 million today, so while it's tightening, Cleveland is likely still ahead by about 300K.

[maru2501]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

What would he be impeached for?
Also, "impeached" does not mean "removed from office", it just means to bring formal charges against. (See Clinton, Bill).

yes I am aware .. used as a shorthand


As far as what for? If that's an actual question, it would take lots of ugliness in a report filed by Mueller to Congress outlining clear evidence that Trump was aware of and supported efforts by Russia to damage Clinton, possibly along with evidence of something illegal in his financial ties to the country, possibly along with items we know nothing about from Cohen that would be relevant. Even then, even if he were impeached in the House, it would have to be extraordinarily bad for the Senate to remove him because it would take too many Republicans to join the bloc

[Trae]

I think Metro Charlotte is closer to Metro Atlanta than Chicago-Milwaukee and NYC-Philly overall. Having said that, it'll never overthrow Atlanta as the premier city of the Southeast. There is nothing that Charlotte offers that Atlanta couldn't. And a poster earlier brought up a good point about Raleigh-Durham. Charlotte needs to be more focused on not being overtaken by that region than Atlanta.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by edale

I've not been to Charlotte beside the airport, but I've heard it has basically no traditionally urban or walkable neighborhoods outside of downtown, which they call Uptown, I think. I've heard there are very few historic neighborhoods, very few pockets of meaningful density (population or built environment), not much in the way of culture that one would expect of a big city, etc. Perhaps I've been given bad intel, but even family members who have lived there for work have left citing the bland nature of the place.

Don't get me wrong, in current state it's a far cry from SF, but Charlotte was never a particularly large city before the past couple decades. The other side is that Charlotte's prime growth era is happening at a time when the pendulum has shifted back to towards multi-tenant housing. There is a ton of multi-tenant stuff going up on the periphery of Charlotte's CBD and plenty of space to build more like it. Thanks to the financial services focused economy, it also helps that employment in Charlotte is concentrated in the CBD.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by edale

I've not been to Charlotte beside the airport, but I've heard it has basically no traditionally urban or walkable neighborhoods outside of downtown, which they call Uptown, I think. I've heard there are very few historic neighborhoods, very few pockets of meaningful density (population or built environment)

charlotte is easily one of the least densely populated major cities in the nation. there's only one zip code in the entire metro area that has a density above 5,000 ppsm, and that's the zip code centered on downtown (uptown), with a density of ~6,700 ppsm. and once you leave uptown, density falls even lower than that immediately.

i mean, the streetview below is literally 3/4 mile away from the tallest building in charlotte:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2397...7i13312!8i6656

where else does cul-de-sac suburbia like that exist within 1 mile of the heart of downtown in a major US city?

now, this doesn't mean that charlotte hasn't been trying to urbanize and get denser in its core, but i can't think of a major US city (>2M metro) that has fewer bones of urbanism from which to work.

but at least charlotte has a pretty skyline.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Trae

I think Metro Charlotte is closer to Metro Atlanta than Chicago-Milwaukee and NYC-Philly overall. Having said that, it'll never overthrow Atlanta as the premier city of the Southeast. There is nothing that Charlotte offers that Atlanta couldn't. And a poster earlier brought up a good point about Raleigh-Duram. Charlotte needs to be more focused on not being overtaken by that region than Atlanta.

I'm pretty familiar with Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta. I think Charlotte is on another level from Raleigh. I think Atlanta is on another level from Charlotte. I think Charlotte is more likely to join Atlanta's league than Raleigh is to catch up to Charlotte.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

At risk of city vs city (I mentioned Cleveland!), I think Charlotte is developing into a much better urban experience than Atlanta. I could see it becoming the south east's San Francisco to Atlanta's LA in the coming decades.

You're going to be waiting a long time then. It'll take a couple of decades of solid growth in Charlotte just for it to match the consistency & scale of Atlanta's current core: http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#15;35...se;false;false

[The North One]

Atlanta has cul-de-sacs literally right next to the CBD.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You're going to be waiting a long time then. It'll take a couple of decades of solid growth in Charlotte just for it to match the consistency & scale of Atlanta's current core: http://mapmerizer.mikavaa.com/#15;35...se;false;false

Charlotte has a lot of ready to build land in strategic places in a way I don't think Atlanta has available.