Macy's closing 4 Downtown stores across US

[sbarn]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i believe the first urban format target store opened in downtown minneapolis several years ago. it certainly wasn't in chicago, as ours only recently opened.

Not a traditional Target, a CityTarget. Supposedly its a smaller footprint than a traditional store and geared more toward those who live in condos and apartments. Who knows, it could have just been hype, but there were a few newspaper articles about it.

Yeah I thought Minneapolis had the first downtown Target.

[seaskyfan]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

I thought Chicago had that honor?

They opened in Seattle, Chicago, and LA last July. Not sure if one of those was first. These were the first stores with the City Target branding.

[Steely Dan]

^^ oh, i thought we we're just talking about urban downtown targets in general, not "City Target" branded stores specifically.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i believe the first urban format target store opened in downtown minneapolis several years ago. it certainly wasn't in chicago, as ours only recently opened.

nvm

[MplsTodd]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i believe the first urban format target store opened in downtown minneapolis several years ago. it certainly wasn't in chicago, as ours only recently opened.

I think the first two-level Target store was actually in downtown Pasadena, CA. I visited it back in 2003 and remember that it was open before the Minneapolis Target store opened around 2002 or so. From what I recall, the Pasadena store was originally another chain (Mervins? Robinsons?), but was converted to a Target format.
The Downtown Minneapolis store was the first new construction Target in a downtown area.

[rs913]

Originally Posted by sbarn

Not a traditional Target, a CityTarget. Supposedly its a smaller footprint than a traditional store and geared more toward those who live in condos and apartments. Who knows, it could have just been hype, but there were a few newspaper articles about it.

Yeah I thought Minneapolis had the first downtown Target.

Target must have one hell of a marketing/PR machine. I've been to the CityTarget in SF, and didn't really see anything that different about it other than different signage. It seems to carry the same assortment of items as a regular Target, only in about 70% of the space and with the big "space hog" items omitted.

Having Target locations in urban areas is still a net positive, but they're really just the same store in a new package, not some radical new innovation.

[MNMike]

Yeah, the Minneapolis one is full size, around 145,000 square feet I believe. And very successful(even though it had to be lured with a subsidy initially). It is attached to their coporate HQ, so you often see execs and vendors in there doing "research" and what not. Kinda interesting. It opened more than several years ago, in Octoboer of 2001. City Target is just a smaller version of Target...cutting out some merchandise that would take up space and not seem as likely to sell to downtown dwellers. I don't think anyone is saying Targets are true department stores, but they are certainly nice to have in an urban core.

Target downtown, and its HQ buildings...courtesy of Target

Looking out from Target lobby, Minneapolis, http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/p...get-entry.html

Downtown Minneapolis retail is fickle...Neiman Marcus is closing their 90,000 square foot store at the end of the month. It has never really done very well in the 20 years it has been there. There is still a healthy amount of retail in downtown Minneapolis, but it obvioulsly struggles. Hopefully we will see some different types of retail filling spaces with all the new residents coming downtown. We did just have a 20,000 square foot Lund's grocery open last summer, and a 40,000 square foot Whole Foods is under construction. Upscale hasn't done well downtown in a while. The Saks converted to an Off Fifth Outlet years ago, and stores like Polo, Crate and Barrel, and Williams Sonoma have been gone for sometime. Brooks Brothers and Allen Edmonds did relatively recently open up downtown though, along with some reputable local retailers...so it seems to be stablilizing a bit now.

[Crawford]

Didn't the downtown Brooklyn Target open in the late 90's?

There are two multilevel, urban Targets in Brooklyn, but I think the one downtown opened maybe 15 years ago or so. But to me, Target isn't a department store. It's a big-box format, even the Super Targets and the like.

The CityTarget brand is like the UrbanWalMart brand; basically a much smaller, more edited version (think large drug store rather than small department store).

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by MplsTodd

I think the first two-level Target store was actually in downtown Pasadena, CA. I visited it back in 2003 and remember that it was open before the Minneapolis Target store opened around 2002 or so. From what I recall, the Pasadena store was originally another chain (Mervins? Robinsons?), but was converted to a Target format.
The Downtown Minneapolis store was the first new construction Target in a downtown area.

Most of the two story Targets in California (there are dozens) are former Montgomery Ward stores. That's part of the reason that so many crappy old malls in California have a fairly nice two story Target attached to them - Target gutted them and moved in in the early 2000s.

Some of these crappy malls have since been converted to faux urban lifestyle centers, but I wouldn't really call most of them (including Pasadena) urban locations.

[urbanactivist]

I'll be sorry to see Houston's Downtown Macy's go, but it's not a big surprise to me either. I shopped there frequently because it's the closest store to me (the only Macy's location in all of Houston's inner loop), and because of the light traffic they were more likely to have things in stock when the Galleria was out. And if you're needing to do some clothes shopping on Black Friday, this was the place to go.

Houston was the original home of Foley's, and people had much more affection for the location when before that company closed down. It was a 105-yr old company before Macy's swooped in. Once Foley's was dead, I think people really lost interest in the store.

The silver lining here? Better retail is likely to come to downtown. For one thing, the city is showing more concern for the retail landscape than they have in a very long time, which is leaps and bounds over previous years. They have a comprehensive set of goals for a Downtown retail corridor, and slowly, new activity is starting to crop up.

[mhays]

Seattle also opened a stacked Target in 2000. Not sure if the store itself is multiple levels within the stack, but the building has about four retail levels. Not Downtown though.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The CityTarget brand is like the UrbanWalMart brand; basically a much smaller, more edited version (think large drug store rather than small department store).

I don't know about the other CityTarget stores, but the one in downtown SF isn't just a big drugstore. They sell computers, video games, shoes and clothes, kitchenware, sports equipment, and so on. It works much more like a department store than a Walgreens.

Downtown SF has a flagship Macy's and a freestanding Macy's Men's Store, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales, Neiman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue and a freestanding Saks men's store, and Barney's.

More than the department stores, though, I think the real strengths of SF's downtown shopping district are its cohesion--it's a real critical mass of retail--and the mind-boggling variety of more specialized stores. Downtown shopping is one thing San Francisco does exceptionally well.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by fflint

I don't know about the other CityTarget stores, but the one in downtown SF isn't just a big drugstore. They sell computers, video games, shoes and clothes, kitchenware, sports equipment, and so on. It works much more like a department store than a Walgreens.

I meant in terms of size and general selection. The new mega-Duane Reades in NYC are 30,000-40,000 ft., and have hair salons, cafes, growler bars, groceries and clothes, but they're still pretty much drug stores.

Europe, in particular, has a lot of these urban format hybrid stores. For example, Monoprix is on every high street in Paris. Usually multilevel, 20,000-50,000 square feet, groceries on the bottom level, clothes, pharmacy and odds and ends on other levels. You can buy tennis shows and a laptop, but it's still pretty much a drug store.

[fflint]

^SF's downtown CityTarget is 98,000 square feet and the new "CityTarget West San Francisco" going in at Geary and Masonic will be 119,000 square feet.

[Shasta]

Just an fyi;

the downtown Houston Macy's isn't closing because it was failing. It's closing because it lost its lease. A developer has cobbled together multiple properties and is forcing all of the current tenants out; office space at the Americana Bldg, a closure of the garage, and retail at the original Foley's Bldg (Macy's) and street retail at the Americana Bldg.

That section of Main St. has changed a ton over the last decade. Two office towers have risen, the old Commerce Towers were converted to for-sale condos, and multiple smaller retailers have gone away (Woolworths, Walgreens, PayLess, etc...). Additionally, the light rail came along and the city closed down that section of Main and built Main Street Square. It's a MUCH better place now and will be even better when the Marriott Conversion at 806 Main (the city's first highrise) is completed.

I would not be surprised to see Macy's resurface in downtown but closer to the new retail center (Houston Pavilions and Phoenicia Market).

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i guess it comes down to how one defines the rather subjective term "large", but chicago has a tradtional free standing macy's and a traditional free standing sears on state street. there's also another macy's, a nordstrom, a bloomingdale's, a saks fith avenue, and a neiman marcus attached to urban malls (but most with direct street access) up on the mag mile, for a total of 7 department stores in downtown chicago.

Don't forget Barneys and its relatively new digs on Oak Street. So 3 "traditional free standing" and 8 department stores in total?

[llamaorama]

There have been multi-story conventional Target stores for a long time. Some of them had shopping cart funiculars to get your cart to the upper floors, so did the Kmarts in cities. Does anyone know if those things are in the new CityTargets?

Usually multilevel, 20,000-50,000 square feet, groceries on the bottom level, clothes, pharmacy and odds and ends on other levels. You can buy tennis shows and a laptop, but it's still pretty much a drug store.

with 50k sq feet you could shoehorn a decent Safeway-like grocery selection, no?

[rs913]

Originally Posted by fflint

More than the department stores, though, I think the real strengths of SF's downtown shopping district are its cohesion--it's a real critical mass of retail--and the mind-boggling variety of more specialized stores. Downtown shopping is one thing San Francisco does exceptionally well.

I see a lot of similarity between SF's and Chicago's downtown retail, actually - they both seem to have the largest concentration of department stores along with traditional retail in one place. NYC has 5th Avenue, but the department stores are spread out with Bloomingdale's, Saks, and Macy's separated by a fair distance.

Both SF and Chicago also have upscale "urban malls" as major components of their downtown retail. Chicago has one big one and 2 small ones, while SF has a single large one that feels like 2 smaller ones stitched together (which it is)

[glowrock]

And of course, the three cities with the best downtown retail happen to be three of the cities with the highest level of out of town visitors (and a huge percentage of international visitors) as well. Of course NYC is going to have massive amounts of retail, it makes perfect sense. Chicago? Again, huge downtown core, tons of visitors. Same for San Francisco. It's a lot harder for places like Denver, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, even Philadelphia to some extent, because not only are the central cores a lot smaller than the above mentioned places, their visitor populations are substantially lower as well.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that these places don't have some successful retail. While Denver doesn't have a department store any longer, their Ross, TJ Maxx and other stores are doing well. Pittsburgh's Macy's (formerly Kaufmann's) is doing pretty well, though it has shunk down in size a bit recently. While Saks closed down, it always seemed awkward to have a Saks in downtown anyhow. The Burlington Coat Factory (three level very large store) is doing seemingly quite well, along with places like Brooks Brothers and the like. Seems that Minneapolis is doing pretty decently as well, just not with high-end stuff.

Really, I'm more interested in downtown cores having the day to day access to items that residents need, including a good food selection, basic hardware items, a reasonable clothing selection and the like. It's why I'm a fan of downtown Target stores (and actually I have no problem with downtown Walmarts as well, as long as they're urban in design and function!). Doesn't need to be fancy, it just needs to be stocked with day to day essentials.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[dc_denizen]

Return to the City: Renewal of Inner City Retail Stores, Forbes

...
There are many examples of retailers responding to this shift in consumer mindset. Nordstrom’s Rack, positioned to appeal to youthful demand for fashion at an affordable price, is opening stores in many urban locations such as Columbus, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Chicago, Seattle, New York, Boston, Birmingham, and Washington D.C. Whole Foods, specifically noting the change, has announced plans to open stores in midtown Detroit, Chicago’s South Side and Newark. Both Walmart and Target are expanding into more downtown locations with smaller store formats.

Retail real estate investment trusts (REIT’s) like Federal Realty are also acting on such demographic changes. Federal Realty is developing a huge commercial complex with adjoining apartment buildings called Assembly Square near downtown Boston (3.5 miles from the city center). This new complex will be accessible to city dwellers via a short ride on the MTA. Federal Realty is also developing a mixed use center (residences, offices and stores) in Rockville, MD, called Pike & Rose that is located near the District of Columbia Metro transit system.